Mostly I think they're irrelevant, but they make some people feel better and they don't seem to be doing any harm, so wothehell...
You really think so? I don't think it's contributed much of value at all, and it's done a lot of harm, from the moment the first European priest set about proselytizing to the people who were here first.
I think quite the contrary, religion's inability to justify its claims entirely invalidates them. Not knowing something doesn't legitimize people inserting whatever fairytale suits their fancy into the gap.
LOL, as tactful as ever Dex.
Actually I do, out of respect more then anything. Let me clarify something though. I may have misspoke, when I said Christianity helped build this nation. Perhaps it would be more appropriate to say Christians, helped build this nation and out of respect for the majority, I think Christianity should enjoy a place of some honour in our society.
I'm struck with awe, as I ponder back to our first meet in this forum. I think the essence of your comment to me was "Suck it up buttercup". The exact words fail to come to me at present, lol. And that is to say I have. I'm sure you remember my crusades against the fair Priest "Sanctus". You know I hold little love for the church, I suffered at the foot of the cross. But I'm not so burdened by my past as to dismiss the conrtibutions of those that came before me, that bore the mark of the cross.
Of course, I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. Science is a human enterprise and suffers from all the same weaknesses any such enterprise does, like ego and greed and so forth. Some truly awful things have been done in its name and it has to take responsibility for the consequences. But religion makes claims that seem to me to be unique, and power corrupts it uniquely because of them. Most faith traditions make some absolute truth claims, and it's an easy step from there to claiming both a right and a duty to interfere in the lives of people who don't accept them. That is the danger, it's the reason for the separation of church and state, and the reason why they must stay separate.
Heh heh... I think it was gerryh I said that to, when he was complaining about all the Christian bashing he perceived here. I did say something similar to you though, and we kind of got off on the wrong foot at first, until you posted a very serious question about something one of your kids had asked you about your military service, and I offered a serious answer. Then I think our perceptions of each other shifted to the positive side.
I don't think many immigrants came here seeking religious freedom as such, and if it was, I wonder how they justified denying it to the people who were already here. It can only be because they thought they were right, as I indicated in my response to karrie above. I think we probably would have pretty much what we have today regardless of the motives of the Europeans who came here. I think what *would* have made a significant difference in the character of this country today would be if we hadn't lost such a significant fraction of our most adventurous and daring young men in the trenches of the First World War. 67,000 young men dead, from a population of about 8 million... that's pretty much a whole generation of young men. But this is a hijack, so I'll stop now.
I believe you are correct.
The Pilgrims come to mind off hand.
The same can be said for analytical thought...;-)
LOL, a stickler for the rules are ya, lol.
Well, perhaps as an aboriginal person you take a different view of Turtle Island than I do, but when I said "here" I meant the territory now called Canada.
Yes, but proper analytical and critical thinking can demonstrate that it's right, or at least provide estimates of the probability that it's right. Religion can't, and by its nature probably wouldn't if it could, because then the faith it demands wouldn't mean anything.
Not really, I've hijacked lots of threads briefly ;-), but I like s_lone, he's a serious thinker who posed a serious question that deserves serious consideration, and I don't want to hijack *this* thread of his.
The religious have been telling each other for millennia that every other religion is wrong, and fighting and dying over their claims and counter claims, now science is telling them they're ALL wrong and it's time to stop that nonsense. And I take some small comfort in the thought that science is extremely unlikely to organize armies to march against the religious. It'll just argue.
but, as it is ....It can never be a fair fight because no one can prove God doesn't exist.
The Jay Treaty and all, I don't recognise borders.
But to some faith isn't about being right or wrong, it's about formulating a way of life that suits them. They do not infringe upon anyone else, they make no attempt to spread their faith. It's good for them.
He's also the coolest separatist I've ever met, lol. Even though I've been known to troll him once in awhile.
I think I said that not to long ago...;-)
