Afghanistan passes barbaric law

[s_lone]

Afghanistan passes 'barbaric' law diminishing women's rights | World news | guardian.co.uk

One cannot help but wonder why we are even trying to help this country...

With this law (that was signed and approved by president Hamid Karzai), a rapist can avoid prosecution by paying the women he raped and injured.

A man can also deny his wife sustenance and food should she dare refuse to obey her husband's sexual demands.

We should have zero tolerance for this law. By doing nothing about it, Canada is guilty of condoning rape and sexual abuse.

 

[Machjo]

Hey, most of Afghanistan is illiterate, and we expect a developed sodiety come out of that just because our aremy stormed through with guns blazing? Bush was an idiot.

As far as I'm concenred, fighting for perfection is a losing battle. Instead, let's work with whatever government the majority population will support, even if it may mean unjust laws (as if all our laws are just too), and focus instead on promoting education in the hopes that the next generation could then change. We need to look at it as an evolutionary and not revolutionary strategy. Bush thought he could change a society at the barrel of a gun. If the maority population is illiterate, a gun won't do much to help them.

 

[Machjo]

And what about our treatment of the First Nations, the Catholic separate schools in Ontario, the internment of Japanese Canadians in WWII, our residential schools, etc. etc. etc.

Why are we expecting Afghanistan to suddently jump forward at the speed of light when it took us time to evolve too. Give them time for crying out loud.

 

[s_lone]

Hey, most of Afghanistan is illiterate, and we expect a developed sodiety come out of that just because our aremy stormed through with guns blazing? Bush was an idiot.

As far as I'm concenred, fighting for perfection is a losing battle. Instead, let's work with whatever government the majority population will support, even if it may mean unjust laws (as if all our laws are just too), and focus instead on promoting education in the hopes that the next generation could then change. We need to look at it as an evolutionary and not revolutionary strategy. Bush thought he could change a society at the barrel of a gun. If the maority population is illiterate, a gun won't do much to help them.

I don't think all Canadian laws are necessarily just. The point is that THIS law is clearly unjust.

I agree with you that you can't change a society by pointing a gun at them, and you can only expect a people to really change over a few generations. But this goes too far in my opinion. If Canada is to be just a tad coherent in its value system, it ought to do something about this.

 

[Machjo]

I don't think all Canadian laws are necessarily just. The point is that THIS law is clearly unjust.

I agree with you that you can't change a society by pointing a gun at them, and you can only expect a people to really change over a few generations. But this goes too far in my opinion. If Canada is to be just a tad coherent in its value system, it ought to do something about this.

If this iswht the majority of their population supports, what are we to do about it?

 

[s_lone]

And what about our treatment of the First Nations, the Catholic separate schools in Ontario, the internment of Japanese Canadians in WWII, our residential schools, etc. etc. etc.

Why are we expecting Afghanistan to suddently jump forward at the speed of light when it took us time to evolve too. Give them time for crying out loud.

Whether this law was passed or not, women will be kept in servitude in Afghanistan for quite some time. This is how their culture is and as you said it can only change over a significant amount of time.

But progress is set into motion by actions, not by patient complacence. And something should be done against this law.

 

[DurkaDurka]

and focus instead on promoting education in the hopes that the next generation could then change.

Seems schools get burned down as fast as we can build them there.

 

[s_lone]

If this iswht the majority of their population supports, what are we to do about it?

Good point. Maybe we should be doing nothing about it and just come back home.

 

[s_lone]

double post

 

[Machjo]

Just a few points about illiteracy. If we think about this for a moment, that limits their world considerably. If an Afghan is illiterate, he can't read any book, newspaper, or computer screen, even in his own language. This limits his acces to knowledge considerably. Add the language barrier, He can't understand CNN, the CBD, the BBC, etc. but if he's a Persian speaker, he could understnd Iranian TV and radio.

If he's illiterate, he can't even read the Qur'an for himself, meaning that he must rely on another person to interpret for him, thus making him very dependent on others for his understanding of spirituality and religion, making those others very powerful too. Think Taliban.

When Canada engaged in slavery and the residential school system, even when we did not grant women the right to vote, most Canadians were at least literate and thus able to access differing opinions from books and newspapers. Most Afghans don't even have that.

That being the case, it would be wise to work within their system and stop fighting it all the time, and instead focus on improving education wherever possible, allowing for gradual change over time.

 

[Machjo]

Seems schools get burned down as fast as we can build them there.

I we ave to, let's build boys' schools. Once the boys are educated, then the next generation might be more tolerant of girls' schools. Besides, wasnt' that the evolutionary process for us too? Why are we expecting them to shoot forward into the 22nd century while our own laws discriminate against religion in Ontario?

 

[s_lone]

Just a few points about illiteracy. If we think about this for a moment, that limits their world considerably. If an Afghan is illiterate, he can't read any book, newspaper, or computer screen, even in his own language. This limits his acces to knowledge considerably. Add the language barrier, He can't understand CNN, the CBD, the BBC, etc. but if he's a Persian speaker, he could understnd Iranian TV and radio.

If he's illiterate, he can't even read the Qur'an for himself, meaning that he must rely on another person to interpret for him, thus making him very dependent on others for his understanding of spirituality and religion, making those others very powerful too. Think Taliban.

When Canada engaged in slavery and the residential school system, even when we did not grant women the right to vote, most Canadians were at least literate and thus able to access differing opinions from books and newspapers. Most Afghans don't even have that.

That being the case, it would be wise to work within their system and stop fighting it all the time, and instead focus on improving education wherever possible, allowing for gradual change over time.

How can I disagree with that? Of course, education is the key. But as DurkaDurka pointed out, some Afghans have no interest in having children educated. Most likely the same Afghans who want to keep women in a state of servitude. It is these Afghans that must be fought and the passing of this law is one of their tactics.

 

[s_lone]

I we ave to, let's build boys' schools. Once the boys are educated, then the next generation might be more tolerant of girls' schools. Besides, wasnt' that the evolutionary process for us too? Why are we expecting them to shoot forward into the 22nd century while our own laws discriminate against religion in Ontario?

Just for my information, can you briefly tell me what is the deal with Ontario schools?

 

[Machjo]

How can I disagree with that? Of course, education is the key. But as DurkaDurka pointed out, some Afghans have no interest in having children educated. Most likely the same Afghans who want to keep women in a state of servitude. It is these Afghans that must be fought and the passing of this law is one of their tactics.

Actually, they seem more opposed to having girls education, not so much all children. We look for a weakness there and exploit it. They don't seem to mind boys getting educated, so if we tried to educate the boys, they'd likely not be so opposed. Though, granted, they might try to force them into Taliban schools instead of more moderate ones. But at least we could narrow the fight down to protecting fewer schools. Or alternatively taking a geographical stance, by focussing on transforming major cities and leaving the rest for now, then gradually expanding the geographical coverage. We seem to be trying to change the whole country overnight, which is just ridiculous. As for the law mentioned above, by Afghan standards, that appears moderate. Look at what the Taliban is doing. So let's accept that and work with it.

 

[Machjo]

Just for my information, can you briefly tell me what is the deal with Ontario schools?

Catholic schools get government funding, other religions, no. Blatantly discriminatory. Not nearly as bad as Afghanistan. but if we think that First Nations didnt' get the vote until the '60s, that many First Nations today lived through the residential schools, that just over a century ago women didnt' ahve a right to vote and that we were selling black people in Canada, we've come a long way, but had to go through an evolutionary process. It's just to say that if we're still facing discriminatory laws in Ontario and with our First Nations even today, after all this time, how can we reasonably expect much faster development in Afghanistan?

 

[DurkaDurka]

I we ave to, let's build boys' schools. Once the boys are educated, then the next generation might be more tolerant of girls' schools. Besides, wasnt' that the evolutionary process for us too? Why are we expecting them to shoot forward into the 22nd century while our own laws discriminate against religion in Ontario?

I'm not expecting the Afghani's to progress at all, we need to get out of the business of modernizing or changing these people, it's bound to fail.

Comparing the situation in Afghanistan to the funding of Catholic Schools in Ontario is laughable.

 

[Machjo]

I'm not expecting the Afghani's to progress at all, we need to get out of the business of modernizing or changing these people, it's bound to fail.

Comparing the situation in Afghanistan to the funding of Catholic Schools in Ontario is laughable.

In relative terms, it's perfectly relevent and parallel. It's to say that if we continue to discriminate even in modern Canada even with all our public education, how can we expect the Afghan people to have even more perfect laws with minimal educational infrastructure. It's perfectly relevent on a relative scale.

 

[DurkaDurka]

In relative terms, it's perfectly relevent and parallel. It's to say that if we continue to discriminate even in modern Canada even with all our public education, how can we expect the Afghan people to have even more perfect laws with minimal educational infrastructure. It's perfectly relevent on a relative scale.

Discrimination is the least of worries in Afghani schools, being killed is a much scarier and realistic outcome.

Funding for faith based schooling of any kind should be banned in Ontario, but that has little in common with what occurs in Afghanistan and just muddles the actual point of the discussion.

 

[Machjo]

Discrimination is the least of worries in Afghani schools, being killed is a much scarier and realistic outcome.

Funding for faith based schooling of any kind should be banned in Ontario, but that has little in common with what occurs in Afghanistan and just muddles the actual point of the discussion.

Killing girls and not boys is discrimination isn't it. It's just the degree of intensity that's different. In Afghanistan, they kill the girls. In Ontario, they just redirect funding. But either way, it's discriminaiton, albeit to differing degrees. In the end, the parallel is perfectly relevent. How can we expect no discrimination there when we have it here.

 

[Nuggler]

Afghanistan passes 'barbaric' law diminishing women's rights | World news | guardian.co.uk

One cannot help but wonder why we are even trying to help this country...

With this law (that was signed and approved by president Hamid Karzai), a rapist can avoid prosecution by paying the women he raped and injured.

A man can also deny his wife sustenance and food should she dare refuse to obey her husband's sexual demands.

We should have zero tolerance for this law. By doing nothing about it, Canada is guilty of condoning rape and sexual abuse.

Er, the law is in effect in Afghanistan. They make their own. The US and Harpo makes ours. Come on.

But, ok; ask Stevie to pass a bill making the law in question, illegal. There. That'll help all those women in Afghanistan, no!!
;-)