Can Ubuntu and Vista Run On One Computer?

[Liberalman]

Can Ubuntu and Vista Run On One Computer?

Does anybody know if there is any conflicts between the two and how does one switch from one system to another?

 

[DurkaDurka]

Yes.

There is a couple ways to do this.

1. You can run Ubuntu as a "live disc" which means it does not install to the hard drive and is run from system memory. This really is only practical for a quick test of Ubunu or if you need to run some system diagnostics etc.

2. Install Ubuntu to a second hard drive, separate from the Vista drive. Basically, you put the disc in the drive, tell it to install to hda1, hda0 etc. Ubuntu should detect that Vista is installed and it will modify the boot loader to allow you to boot either of the OS's.

3. Partition an existing hard drive to allow both Vista & Ubuntu to run from the same drive. Partionining basically allows you to create multiple drives within a drive. The best time to go this route is when Windows has been freshly installed as you could lose your data if you accidently install Install linux into the windows partition.

 

[earth_as_one]

What D says is the traditional way of running multiple OS's on the same PC, but another possibility exists using using various computer virtualization technologies.

Benefits of a Virtual Machine
P3.NET | Benefits of Virtual Machines

X86 Virtualization
x86 virtualization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Types of virtualization software and what they support:
Comparison of platform virtual machines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

With Host OS based virtualizationmeans you can run multiple guest OS's (linux, windows, novell....) simultaneously on the same Host OS. Computer Virtualization has more flexibility and features compared to the tradition computing. Individual Virtual Machines can be powered on and off, so you don't have to reboot. Each VM is just a set of files (configuration file, virtual disk...), which means they can be copied or backed up just like any other set of files. Also, if you browse the internet with you VM, only the VM is exposed to malicious software. The host OS is isolated and protected from the guest OS's. If you loose or corrupt a guest OS, you can recover it as a set of files, or clone a new one off a clean copy.

I'm most familar with VMware Server (free) and VMware's ESXi Server (free) and ESX Server ($). For the beginner, I'd recommend starting with VMware Server. This technology is mature and relatively easy to install, setup and use.

Procedure
1) Install Ubuntu linux (free) first as the "host OS" on your PC.

Ubuntu
http://www.ubuntu.com/

2) Install VMware Server as an application (free)

VMware Server:
http://www.vmware.com/products/server/

How To Install VMware Server 2 On An Ubuntu 8.04 Desktop
How To Install VMware Server 2 On An Ubuntu 8.04 Desktop | HowtoForge - Linux Howtos and Tutorials

3) Create a Vista "guest OS" on VMware server.
How to Install Windows Vista Under VMware Server

For free help use VMware's support forums:
VMware Communities: VMware Server 2

Or you could go the other way and install VMware Server on Vista and run Ubuntu as a guest OS.

Correction: VMware server does not install on Vista. So the above procedure is the way to go, not the other way around.

 

[Cliffy]

Yes.

There is a couple ways to do this.

1. You can run Ubuntu as a "live disc" which means it does not install to the hard drive and is run from system memory. This really is only practical for a quick test of Ubunu or if you need to run some system diagnostics etc.

2. Install Ubuntu to a second hard drive, separate from the Vista drive. Basically, you put the disc in the drive, tell it to install to hda1, hda0 etc. Ubuntu should detect that Vista is installed and it will modify the boot loader to allow you to boot either of the OS's.

3. Partition an existing hard drive to allow both Vista & Ubuntu to run from the same drive. Partionining basically allows you to create multiple drives within a drive. The best time to go this route is when Windows has been freshly installed as you could lose your data if you accidently install Install linux into the windows partition.

I was told that you can create virtual hard drives in Linux and install both Windows and Mac OS on them. This supposedly allows for seamless interface between all programs on all three OSs. (I don't Know if that is true with Vista or Umbuntu).

 

[earth_as_one]

Ubuntu Linux also has its own computer virtualization features, but they aren't as mature or straight forward as VMware Server. But anyone experienced with Linux could also follow that route:

Virtualization | Ubuntu

 

[DurkaDurka]

I was told that you can create virtual hard drives in Linux and install both Windows and Mac OS on them. This supposedly allows for seamless interface between all programs on all three OSs. (I don't Know if that is true with Vista or Umbuntu).

I think you are referring to virtual machines, which is what Earth was talking about in the previous post.

Generally, guest operating systems within a VM container cannot interface with the host operating system due to file system differences and the chance of introducing virues, trojans etc to the host.

 

[earth_as_one]

Yes you want the guest OS to remain sepaerate from the host OS to take advantage of the increased security benefits. But you can share storage or files between guest OS's and the Host OS using any traditional method of file sharing or file transfer. The basic idea is that a guest OS doesn't know its a guest OS. So you have to treat each guest OS (and the Host OS) the same way you would treat separate computers.

 

[Cliffy]

I think you are referring to virtual machines, which is what Earth was talking about in the previous post.

Generally, guest operating systems within a VM container cannot interface with the host operating system due to file system differences and the chance of introducing virues, trojans etc to the host.

I see that now. He posted while I was typing.
I have a problem with VM Ware. I installed Virtual PC on a Mac so I could install XP on it too. The interface sucked but is partially functional, enough for the purpose intended, but quirky. There support was non existent except to try to get me to buy new stuff. Now I get spam from them daily. I can't get them to stop. I refuse to deal with companies like that.

 

[earth_as_one]

BTW, I teach computer virtualization for a living. This technology is widely used at the data center level. It allows companies to consolidate their hardware, reducing capital costs, energy, real estate.... Typically most organizations recover the cost of converting their OS's to VM's within a year or two.

Another VM benefit is that alot of software comes pre-packaged as a virtual appliance. (Virtual machine, guest OS and pre-installed appliaction as a single file). It's literally plug and play. No more installing applications.

There are now over 1000 vmware appliances:
Virtual Appliance Marketplace: | Virtual Appliance Marketplace

Here is the Ubuntu virtual appliance:
Ubuntu 8.10 Desktop With VMWare Tools | Virtual Appliance Marketplace
Unfortunately VMware Server is not supported running on Vista as the host OS. So you would have to run VMware Server on Ubuntu and then install Vista as a VM. You can't do it the other way around.

VMware Server is not supported on Vista (as the Host OS). Its only supported as a guest OS.
VMware Communities: VMWare Server with Vista Host OS

Hacked Vista Appliances (license key and activation) exist on bit torrents, but I'm not sure I'd trust them.

 

[earth_as_one]

I see that now. He posted while I was typing.
I have a problem with VM Ware. I installed Virtual PC on a Mac so I could install XP on it too. The interface sucked but is partially functional, enough for the purpose intended, but quirky. There support was non existent except to try to get me to buy new stuff. Now I get spam from them daily. I can't get them to stop. I refuse to deal with companies like that.

Sorry to hear about this. That's not been my experience. You should be able to unsubscribe.

I've run windows as a guest OS on VMware virtualization and yes I've seen some performance issues. You need a modern PC. Not all computer hardware runs computer virtualization well. You need lots of RAM (at least 2 G) and multiple CPU's (at least 2 - with Intel VT technology or AMD longmode technology). Otherwise your VM performance will suck. Most laptops made in the last 2 years are fine.

If you want to know if your PC has the horsepower and features to run VMs, you can post that as a question on the VMware forums and see what the user groups say.

Anyway better get used of the idea, because computer virtualization technology is about to be built into the processor chipset. It won't be host OS based, but the more efficient hypervisor technology. Your desktop and all your applications will be VMs and virtual appliances. This change is already here with more powerful servers. Many come with the VMware ESXi hypervisor built in.

IBM:
IBM System x and BladeCenter servers with VMware ESXi

HP
HP Virtualization with VMware

Consumer grade computers will probably start using built in hypervisor type virtualization within two years. Within 5 years, all new computers will likely have virtualization technology built in. Don't worry, the change will be transparent. You'll still have a desktop and icons representing your applications, but they won't be appliactions. Instead they will be virtual appliances. Each appliance will run its own OS, but you won't see the OS or care. All your apps will run the same way they do now, but they will be appliances, not applications. The average person won't be able to tell the difference. The benefits include better security, disaster recovery, easier to install, easier for the software vendor to support....

 

[DurkaDurka]

Earth, Microsoft is going the VM route with Windows 7, basically bundling windows XP along with it, running in VM mode for compatability with 32 bit xp apps.

 

[earth_as_one]

D,

Microsoft is attempting to do to VMware regarding computer virtualization the same thing they did to Netscape regarding web browsers. Microsoft understands the longterm implications of computer virtualization and virtual appliances. This technology threatens the importance of an OS and as a result their domination of the IT industry. Whoever controls the virtualization layer will be the next Microsoft.

Right now Microsoft dominates the IT industry because they control the dominant OS's. 1) No sense writing an application unless it runs on windows. 2) No sense building hardware unless its compatible with windows.

Computer virtualization changes the rules. Now the the OS is much less important. Yes the OS will continue to exist, but most users won't see it or interact with it. What they will see are applications running as virtual appliances. The appliance's OS will be a transparent layer underneath the application. It won't make any difference if the appliance's OS is windows or linux based since most users won't see or interact with it.

Right now, application developers have to pay Microsoft for tools to make their software compatible with Windows. The equivalent is free with Linux. Since the OS is transparant (and unimportant) in a virtual appliance, most appliances are and will be Linux based.

Already it doesn't make sense to build hardware unless its compatible with the dominant hypervisor (ESX). Soon it won't make sense to develop applications either unless they can run as an appliance on the dominant hypervisor. In other words, VMware could be the next Microsoft.... or if Microsoft has their way... the next Netscape...

I'd like to see VMware win this battle. At the consumer level it could go either way, but at the datacenter level, VMware has more or less won. Their hypervisor has been hot migrating virtual machines between physical servers since 2003. Microsoft's HyperV has just acquired this ability. VMware has automated migrations with DRS and HA since 2006. Just recently VMware released vSphere 4, which simplifies configuration and management of large scale environments (datacenters).

VMware's current technology is about 4 years ahead of Microsoft regarding compatibility, functionality and features. Also you can get their Microsoft equivalent software for free.

If you want to play with this technology, I'd recommend running VMware Server (or Player) on top of Ubuntu Linux.

By the way, you don't have to give up your current OS and apps. If you like you can convert your OS to a virtual machine for free.
http://www.vmware.com/products/converter/

So you don't have to give anything up to switch over. Install converter on a compatible OS, hot clone of your PC into a virtual machine and then import it into Server running on top of Linux. Your old PC with all its files becomes just another VM. Note:these files take up a lot of space, so you may want to upgrade your hard drive. A virtual c:\ drive (virtual disk) is the same size as the c:\ drive. Another VMware advantage is that VMware VMs, can have thin provisioned virtual disks. The virtual disk is only as big as the data with no sparse space.

I'll admit I'm biased, but once you compare the features and functionality between VMware and Microsoft, you'll see that VMware is more advanced than Microsoft.

 

[DurkaDurka]

I agree VMware is a more fully featured and industry accepted solution opposed to Microsofts VM offerings.

I like what Virtual Machines offer going forward though, instead of including lgeacy code in the OS kernal, a company can now just include the legacy support with a Virtual Machine.

 

[earth_as_one]

I like how easy it is to create new VM's. Since they are just a set of files, they can be copied. The days of installing an OS from scratch are coming to an end.

 

[DurkaDurka]

I like how easy it is to create new VM's. Since they are just a set of files, they can be copied. The days of installing an OS from scratch are coming to an end.

I have run VM's on a few occasions, mostly when I was into folding@home. I would run two linux VM's with a core and 512 RAM dedicated to each and crunch numbers all day long with it. I also had a linux firewall appliance but it didn't mesh with my network very well.