The Proudest Hour of the Prolife Movement.

[YukonJack]

"Sorry Yukon, doctors did it zero times. Abortion does not kill babies, that is only your personal opinion. The score is 8 or 10 against zero."

The REAL doctors, who adhered to their hippocratic oath did it zero times. The butchers, masquarading as "doctors" did it 60,000,000 times in the U.S. and roughly 3,000,000 times in Canada.

Did it ever occur to you what damage these "doctors" did to the Social Security contribution base? Did it ever occur to you that jobs emigrate oversees because there are not enough people here to do those jobs? Did it ever occur to you that your opinion about the beginning of life may be wrong? Did it ever occur to you that your own Mother was obviously pro-life since she made the mistake of giving you birth? Aren't you glad she did?

 

[DurkaDurka]

Hey, anyone wanna to the creationism museum? I hear it is a blast

 

[L Gilbert]

Most pro lifers are well aware of the ethical implications of restricting some abortions, while leaving others outside the law, but most would be willing to do so. The exceptions that they have developed of leaving a fetus unprotected, by society as whole, which does have a stake in the issue .. are well known.

1. Life, not 'health' of the mother which has been distended to mean anything.
2. Non-viability of the fetus, NOT 'quality' of life issues like Down's Syndrome or Spina Bifida. This is a case where the pregnancy is completely futile and the child will not survive to term, or will die soon thereafter
3. Rape or incest, within at most the first trimestre.

Every one in the pro life movement is well aware of the charges of hypocrisy this might elicit, especially in the case of protecting one life over another in cases of a viable and healthy infant. Some would not even go that far, but most would, since in might be the most that is achievable. But it still condemns the act, it simply states there are extreme cases, where a decision will be left to the conscience of the mother. Those condition actually existed in case law, prior the removal of all legal protections of the fetus in the early 70s.

I know personally of a story where the mother brought to term an infant whose brainstem had not developed and would survive only hours after birth. She had to fight the hospital to actually deliver the child so she and her family could say goodbye, have it baptized, hold it for a while and say a prayer for him. It has been an enduring source of comfort to her and her family in an admittedly tragic situation.

You have to note the very limited number of cases this involves. Much less than 1% of the some 50 million abortions that have occurred in North America over the last 35 years. We have spawned a generation where the majority of its confreres are dead before they reach their 1st birthday.

Typical: lots of claims, nothing to substantiate them.

 

[DurkaDurka]

Did it ever occur to you what damage these "doctors" did to the Social Security contribution base? Did it ever occur to you that jobs emigrate oversees because there are not enough people here to do those jobs? Did it ever occur to you that your opinion about the beginning of life may be wrong? Did it ever occur to you that your own Mother was obviously pro-life since she made the mistake of giving you birth? Aren't you glad she did?

Jobs do not go overseas because there is a lack of manpower to fill them, they go overseas because the labour is significantly cheaper. Only you would try to link outsourcing with abortion...

Did it ever occur to you that your birth was probably an accident?

 

[YukonJack]

"Did it ever occur to you that your birth was probably an accident?"

No, not at all! Both of my parents gave me love and nurishment (mental, spiritual and physical) with love only loving parents can provide.

 

[DurkaDurka]

"Did it ever occur to you that your birth was probably an accident?"

No, not at all! Both of my parents gave me love and nurishment (mental, spiritual and physical) with love only loving parents can provide.

uh uh. I don't think people with that sort of upbringing turn into nasty old pricks like your self.

 

[L Gilbert]

There is NO question that science defines life as starting at conception. That is a verifiable fact.

So verify it.

But science defines life as a sovereign living entity, separate from the mother and developing in accordance with its own genetic code, which it undoubtedly is.

Reference for this definition?

You are not discussing Life, you are discussing 'personhood', the legal construct that has developed around the abortion issue, which accords constitutional rights and protections to 'a person', in order to override the guarantees of equal protection for the infant. Define the fetus as something other than a 'person' and the legal problem is solved. You are then not dealing with a person. The moral problem is left unattended.

"Moral" problems are relative. Societies define what is moral. Christianity is only one society and it is one that doesn't value ALL life.

 

[YukonJack]

"uh uh. I don't think people with that sort of upbringing turn into nasty old pricks like your self."

Thanks for the compliment, DurkaDurka!

Your eloquence in profanity is really breath taking.

Impressive in lack of anything substantive.

 

[DurkaDurka]

"uh uh. I don't think people with that sort of upbringing turn into nasty old pricks like your self."

Thanks for the compliment, DurkaDurka!

Your eloquence in profanity is really breath taking.

Impressive in lack of anything substantive.

Like most of your posts eh, Yukon? All fluff...

 

[karrie]

roflmao "Any real scientist"? That means any scientist you happen to agree with. The rest aren't real. Whatta laugh.

I can't see a way that science could claim it's anything BUT both alive and human.

The issue is a legal one (individual with human rights), not a scientific one (living human). I know I'd stop taking seriously any scientist who claimed a fetus is anything but alive.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

The REAL doctors, who adhered to their hippocratic oath did it zero times. The butchers, masquarading as "doctors" did it 60,000,000 times in the U.S. and roughly 3,000,000 times in Canada

That is only your opinion, Yukon. To say that abortion kills babies is a religious position; there is no scientific basis to it.

Did it ever occur to you what damage these "doctors" did to the Social Security contribution base?

No, because there is no evidence that if the abortion had been banned; all those would be contributing to Social Security. It is quite possible that half may contribute, other half may withdraw and the result would be a zero.

Did it ever occur to you that jobs emigrate oversees because there are not enough people here to do those jobs?

As Durka rightly pointed out, jobs don’t go oversees because there are no people to do the job. Jobs go overseas because labor is cheaper overseas. Many times what happens is that a company would close a department in USA, laying off all the people and transfer the jobs to overseas.

Did it ever occur to you that your opinion about the beginning of life may be wrong?

Certainly not. I don’t listen to Fundamentalist preachers or to the Pope; I listen to what scientists say. As I said before, life is a nebulous concept; it is difficult to define life. Scientists would never tell us with certainty that such a nebulous concept as life begins at conception.

Did it ever occur to you that your own Mother was obviously pro-life since she made the mistake of giving you birth? Aren't you glad she did?

That is pure nonsense. My mother could have done several things which may have resulted in my non birth; abortion is only one of them (working too hard, eating inappropriate foods etc.). E.g., she may have claimed to have a headache when my father was in the mood. If intercourse had taken place at a different time, that would have resulted in the birth of a different individual. So I suppose I should also be thankful that my mother did not have a headache.

It is not as if I would be sitting somewhere moaning and groaning that my mother had an abortion. I would never have existed, s my question of being glad or miserable wood not have arisen.

 

[Cannuck]

Cliffy, the reason for this is that in the name of opposing abortion, a small but noisy minority gets to impose its views on the rest of the society.

So? Were you against the pro-choice crowd when they were small but vocal? What about the gay community when they wanted their rights protected? were you aganst that vocal minority? How about that minority of vocal women that wanted to vote? Have a problem with that as well?

Anyway, have you noticed how prolifers are opposed to life in most other situations except abortion?

No I hadn't noticed that...I wonder why.

 

[Cannuck]

Hey, anyone wanna to the creationism museum? I hear it is a blast

Been there done that. It was a hoot.

Bible Discovery Centre

 

[Cliffy]

Hey, anyone wanna to the creationism museum? I hear it is a blast

Did you see that bumper sticker that someone posted here about six months ago that said: I went to the Creation Museum but all I got was stupider"?

 

[Machjo]

At least that woman was honest. Most women would get an abortion and continue picketing.

Any proof?

 

[L Gilbert]

I can't see a way that science could claim it's anything BUT both alive and human.

The issue is a legal one (individual with human rights), not a scientific one (living human). I know I'd stop taking seriously any scientist who claimed a fetus is anything but alive.

I agree. I am only an amateur scientist, though, not a professional one. And I know some REAL scientists think life begins at conception, and some REAL scientists don't. A lot of technical aspects of science baffle the heck out of me.
Either way, I can see that sometimes an abortion is necessary. For the most part, although I disagree with coldstream's "facts n figures", abortions are what people use for birth control, and find all sorts of inane reasons for having them.

Besides, I like poking at coldstream for making unsubstantiated claims.

 

[L Gilbert]

Any proof?

Good luck with that request, M.

 

[In Between Man]

It's too bad our side has some fools. God said not to kill. What this idiot has done is hurt the cause.

I'm suspicious of the victim however. Did he have a front? He went to church, yet he murders innocent human beings. Seems to me that anyone who actually does believe in God and Jesus IN HIS HEART, would renounce the act of murder. Because he would have recognized that life is a gift from God. All life.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Any proof?

No proof, Machjo, just my opinion. Hypocrisy comes naturally to many conservatives. There are so many examples in the public life. If leaders are like that, why would the followers be any different?

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Did he have a front? He went to church, yet he murders innocent human beings. Seems to me that anyone who actually does believe in God and Jesus IN HIS HEART, would renounce the act of murder.

Alley, this should tell you that even among Christians, there is no agreement on the issue. There are many Christians who do not think that abortion is murder, that it kills babies. And why not? Bible does not mention the word abortion anywhere. So it is only somebody's interpretation that abortion is murder, that it kills babies. Many honest, good Christians disagree.