Can Ignatieff distance himself from his past?

[Colpy]

He lived in the USA 5 years. That's it. There are many people we consider to be Canadian icons who have lived down there for even longer, e.g Wayne Gretzky, Neil Young and Mike Meyers.

And if anything, Ignatieff is clearly a man who can think for himself. He will influence other leaders more than they will influence him.

WOW!

I didn't know Neil Young, Mike Meyers, and Gretsky were "searching for Canada in the USA!!!!!!

I didn't know they were planning on running for PM either!

The point is this.......Ignatieff spent the vast majority of his life out of the country.....and that is perfectly all right. He had every right to persue whatever academic laurels or personal lifestyle he wished anywhere in the world. More credit to him.

BUT: to come back to Canada and pontificate on his love of the country he abandoned, to claim he was "searching for Canada" (when he refered to the USA as "my country") after he has spent the vast majority of his adult life elsewhere ios simply ludicrous. We have good universities here that are always searching for talent....I wonder how many times Iggy passed up opportunities.....good opportunities....to live in Canada, to share with Canadian students the benefits of his education and experience, to boost the reputation of a Canadian university....hundreds of times?

But NOW he wants to come back at start at the top, with sanctimonious pronouncements of his "love for Canada" that could only be believed by those with IQs that barely register on the Brain-o-meter.

I don't need his crap.......his ego.......his mono-manical search for a path to greatness and the history books.......one he intends to climb on the backs of Canadians.

They should have let ME write the Attack Ads.

 

[Walter]

IGGY ON THE BEACHWhen the going gets tough, the tough go to ... Bermuda ! A Hill news hound reports that as soon as shiny new Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff admonished his opponents for targeting him in an ad campaign pointing out he's spent the better part of the last 4 decades domiciled abroad, and just as soon as he beseeched his MPs to spend this past off-week consulting with constituents back in their ridings, now news that Michael and wife Zsuszanna (citizenship unknown) was spotted en route to Bermuda for some R&R. Curiously, not a tweet about the secret getaway from the great man or from his most trusted adjunct.

From: Bourque​

 

[Colpy]

IGGY ON THE BEACHWhen the going gets tough, the tough go to ... Bermuda ! A Hill news hound reports that as soon as shiny new Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff admonished his opponents for targeting him in an ad campaign pointing out he's spent the better part of the last 4 decades domiciled abroad, and just as soon as he beseeched his MPs to spend this past off-week consulting with constituents back in their ridings, now news that Michael and wife Zsuszanna (citizenship unknown) was spotted en route to Bermuda for some R&R. Curiously, not a tweet about the secret getaway from the great man or from his most trusted adjunct.

From: Bourque​

You are surprized??

Labour in the trenches is so......distressing.....better left to the peasants born and bred for it.

 

[Polygong]

WOW!

I didn't know Neil Young, Mike Meyers, and Gretsky were "searching for Canada in the USA!!!!!!

I didn't know they were planning on running for PM either!

When did I ever say that they were looking for Canada in the USA?

What I am saying is that depsite having spent more time down there than Ignatieff did, they are still held by Canadians as part of our national lexicon. Living abroad does not make one less Canadian, and it certainly doesn't reduce one's fitibility to be Prime Minister.

Based on your views expressed on another thread, you seem to have no problem with the monarchy. How can one have no problem with having a foreigner as our Head of State and yet reject a Canadian who has spent time abroad for PM?

 

[Colpy]

When did I ever say that they were looking for Canada in the USA?

What I am saying is that depsite having spent more time down there than Ignatieff did, they are still held by Canadians as part of our national lexicon. Living abroad does not make one less Canadian, and it certainly doesn't reduce one's fitibility to be Prime Minister.

Based on your views expressed on another thread, you seem to have no problem with the monarchy. How can one have no problem with having a foreigner as our Head of State and yet reject a Canadian who has spent time abroad for PM?

Simple, really. Our head of State is Constitutional, able to influence only in the most exceptional circumstances. In addition, our constitution is mostly British, our Parliamentary heritage is British, our liberty, our culture, our form of government is deeply rooted in the English tradition. My point with our system is it works.....don't fix it.

The point with Iggy is that he could have contributed to our nation is very helpful ways.....instead, he spent his life outside the nation. Suddenly, as his working life draws down, he discovers a deep-seated love of this nation.........uh-huh. Spare me.

Iggy does not want to serve Canada.

He wants Canada to serve his ego.

 

[Polygong]

Simple, really. Our head of State is Constitutional, able to influence only in the most exceptional circumstances. In addition, our constitution is mostly British, our Parliamentary heritage is British, our liberty, our culture, our form of government is deeply rooted in the English tradition. My point with our system is it works.....don't fix it.

The same systems that allows any Canadian citizen over the age 18 to run for office?

Ignatieff's candidacy is well within the rules you hold so dearly.

The point with Iggy is that he could have contributed to our nation is very helpful ways.....instead, he spent his life outside the nation. Suddenly, as his working life draws down, he discovers a deep-seated love of this nation.........uh-huh. Spare me.

Many Canadians go abroad for a long period of time and return home. Many don't come at all and still claim to love this country, see those whom I have cited above. I've heard all three of them say they love Canada even though they continue to live abroad. Are you saying they are not genuine?

Iggy does not want to serve Canada.

He wants Canada to serve his ego.

And what do you base this claim on, other than the fact that it fits the image the Tories would like thrust at him.

 

[Colpy]

[=Polygong;1097925]The same systems that allows any Canadian citizen over the age 18 to run for office?

Ignatieff's candidacy is well within the rules you hold so dearly.

Where did I say he was outside the rules????? He certainly is within the rules.....

Many Canadians go abroad for a long period of time and return home. Many don't come at all and still claim to love this country, see those whom I have cited above. I've heard all three of them say they love Canada even though they continue to live abroad. Are you saying they are not genuine?

Absolutely! I am not saying they are not genuine at all, I'm saying Michael Ignatieff is not genuine, IMHO. Myers, and Young left to pursue dollars and a career path that would have been almost impossible to pursue in Canada........Gretsky left to pursue career and love.......Young, in fact, returned fairly early, continued his career despite the difficulties of doing it in Canada, and has contributed much to Canadian culture.

Unlike Iggy.

None declared the USA as their country.

Unlike Iggy.

And none has presumed to spend their lives contributing to another nation, and then returned expecting to rule this nation.

Unlike Iggy.

IMHO Neil Young has a better claim to the leadership of Canada than Iggy, and Young has a history of mental disorder.

And what do you base this claim on, other than the fact that it fits the image the Tories would like thrust at him.

As I said above, only an idiot would believe Iggy's protestations of undying love for a nation he abandoned early in his life, stayed away from throughout his life, rejecting every opportunity to contribute, and returned to only when he saw clearly the chance to grasp power for himself...........

Is that clear enough??????

 

[Polygong]

Where did I say he was outside the rules????? He certainly is within the rules.....

Your defense of having a foreigner who has never lived in this country as our Head of State was based on that the system works the way it is. So how does that defense negate the validity of a Canadian who happens to have spent time abroad for our PM? Doesn't explain this inconsistency in your logic.

Then of course you talk about the Britishness of our heritage being important. And where did Ignatieff spend the bulk of his time outside of Canada: Britain. So I guess his time abroad was spent learning about our heitage then?

Myers, and Young left to pursue dollars and a career path that would have been almost impossible to pursue in Canada........Gretsky left to pursue career and love.......

Ignatieff left for the exact same reason.

None declared the USA as their country.

Neither did Ignatieff. His quote was "... your country as much as it is mine." A not unreasonable thing to say for any expat referring to the place he lives in.

And none has presumed to spend their lives contributing to another nation, and then returned expecting to rule this nation.

So what?

Where did I say he was outside the rules????? He certainly is within the rules.....

Your defense of having a foreigner who has never lived in this country as our Head of State was based on that the system works the way it is. So how does that defense negate the validity of a Canadian who happens to have spent time abroad for our PM? Doesn't explain this inconsistency in your logic.

Then of course you talk about the Britishness of our heritage being important. And where did Ignatieff spend the bulk of his time outside of Canada: Britain. So I guess his time abroad was spent learning about our heitage then?

Myers, and Young left to pursue dollars and a career path that would have been almost impossible to pursue in Canada........Gretsky left to pursue career and love.......

Ignatieff left for the exact same reason.

None declared the USA as their country.

Neither did Ignatieff. His quote was "... your country as much as it is mine." A not unreasonable thing to say for any expat referring to the place he lives in.

As I said above, only an idiot would believe Iggy's protestations of undying love for a nation he abandoned early in his life, stayed away from throughout his life, rejecting every opportunity to contribute, and returned to only when he saw clearly the chance to grasp power for himself...........

Is that clear enough??????

Leaving the country does not equal abandoning it, again, many Canadians do without having their dedication questioned. Your judgement is pure speculation, speculation that is convenient to the party you support with no substantiated base whatsoever.

PURE SPECULATION AND NOTHING BUT.

 

[Colpy]

[Polygong;1097934]

Neither did Ignatieff. His quote was "... your country as much as it is mine." A not unreasonable thing to say for any expat referring to the place he lives in.

That's hilarious! Of course it is not an unreasonable thing to say.....for an American. For a Canadian to say it is ludicrous, and certainly indicates a conflict (at least!) of loyalties......I ask you to consider the reverse....an American in Canada proclaiming Canada is "as much your country as it is mine"....my response would be "a damn sight MORE my country than it is yours".....and I like Americans!

Twist it how you like, this quote shows very well Ignatieff's lack of commitment to this nation....he sees himself as an American ....he has said so.

Ignatieff has only returned to rule; what he cares about is power, nothing else.

So how does that defense negate the validity of a Canadian who happens to have spent time abroad for our PM? Doesn't explain this inconsistency in your logic.

As I have explained over and over, the validity of his attempt is not in question, he is within the rules.

What is in question is his motive.

Leaving the country does not equal abandoning it, again, many Canadians do without having their dedication questioned. Your judgement is pure speculation, speculation that is convenient to the party you support with no substantiated base whatsoever.

When you have a talent needed in the nation, when there is available a multitude of opportunities to return and contribute to the nation at fair recompensense, and when ALL of those dozens, if not hundreds of opportunities to contribute are ignored, when you declare yourself as another nationality (formally or informally)...........then yes, that is abandonment.

Which is fine. Iggy is a free man, he should exercise his constitutional right to Pursuit of Happiness ............and he should be welcomed back to Canada with open arms.......in his retirement.

But do NOT come to me 35 years later proclaiming your undying, passionate love for THIS nation, and expect to be annointed King.....just phucking spare me!!!!!!

Iggy is only interested in power.

That is SOOOOOO obvious..........my judgement is only logic at work.......

 

[Tonington]

When you have a talent needed in the nation, when there is available a multitude of opportunities to return and contribute to the nation at fair recompensense, and when ALL of those dozens, if not hundreds of opportunities to contribute are ignored, when you declare yourself as another nationality (formally or informally)...........then yes, that is abandonment.

I guess we'll have to take your word that there were these multitude of opportunities... Go ahead and look at the C.V's of the teaching staff on any faculty at any university across this country, and you will likely see professors holding degrees from many different institutions around the world, with post-doctoral positions around the world. Opportunities do not often come up in the ideal places Colpy. That is the life of an academic. They have to be willing to be nomads until they're in their 40's before they get any kind of job security. It's not for everybody.

It says absolutely nothing about the person and their love of their country. We have one such example on this board. My brother Niflmir lives in Berlin, pursuing his Ph.D there. If you think this somehow means he has abandoned Canada, or that his love for this country is less than mine because I still live here, well then you ought to pull your partisan head out of your ass and whiff the fresh air...

 

[Francis2004]

That's hilarious! Of course it is not an unreasonable thing to say.....for an American. For a Canadian to say it is ludicrous, and certainly indicates a conflict (at least!) of loyalties......I ask you to consider the reverse....an American in Canada proclaiming Canada is "as much your country as it is mine"....my response would be "a damn sight MORE my country than it is yours".....and I like Americans!

Twist it how you like, this quote shows very well Ignatieff's lack of commitment to this nation....he sees himself as an American ....he has said so.

Ignatieff has only returned to rule; what he cares about is power, nothing else.



As I have explained over and over, the validity of his attempt is not in question, he is within the rules.

What is in question is his motive.




When you have a talent needed in the nation, when there is available a multitude of opportunities to return and contribute to the nation at fair recompensense, and when ALL of those dozens, if not hundreds of opportunities to contribute are ignored, when you declare yourself as another nationality (formally or informally)...........then yes, that is abandonment.

Which is fine. Iggy is a free man, he should exercise his constitutional right to Pursuit of Happiness ............and he should be welcomed back to Canada with open arms.......in his retirement.

But do NOT come to me 35 years later proclaiming your undying, passionate love for THIS nation, and expect to be annointed King.....just phucking spare me!!!!!!

Iggy is only interested in power.

That is SOOOOOO obvious..........my judgement is only logic at work.......

Your so right Colpy, Ignatieff is more American ( 5 years in US and 20 in Britain )............ Sure makes him American...

But I will tell you what. I will not judge him yet, although I don't trust him.. I can tell you one thing tough.. I couldn't care less if he thinks of himself as American or British or Martian as long as he does a good job.. And right now Harper is doing Nothing..

So here are the choices..

Harper = Zero accomplished with big deficit due to proroguement of parliament and denial of recession.

Ignatieff = Ameriacn ideas ( Claimed by Conservatives ) with Centre Right policies.

Layton = Totally left policy to lead to Canada backwards.

Unless Conservative Party changes Leaders, my choice is pretty slim isn't it..

 

[Polygong]

But do NOT come to me 35 years later proclaiming your undying, passionate love for THIS nation, and expect to be annointed King.....just phucking spare me!!!!!!

Whether you think he's sincere or not, at least he can say that he loves this country, when asked if he loves Canada Harper could barely muster "Canada is a good country." Pretty lame.

Sorry, but being abroad for a long time does not say anything about one's dedication to this country and it does not invalidate one's fitness for the PMO. Especially when they've spent the majority of that time aborad in Britain, the same Britain you claim is at the core of our traditions.

And again, he is not seeking to become king, he is seeking the office of Prime Minister. I know that "king" works much better for a smear campaign, but that's just not the facts.

Besides, the job of King is only availabe to the members of a certain family from Westminster. Something you should know since you're perfectly comfortable with us having a foreigner as Head of State. Someone who has never lived in Canada at all.

 

[Machjo]

Exactly, Iggy's former places of residence of themselves say nothing of his fitness to be PM.

Having said that, however, I can find many points of his on which to worry about without trying to unduly smear him. But in the end, it doesn't matter because he's not in my riding. My only responsibility is to vote my conscience for the best candidate in my riding, and I generally won't vote for party hacks so I'm not likely to vote unwittingly for Iggy anyway.

 

[Walter]

Lorne Gunter: The Liberal way with hypocrisy
Posted: May 25, 2009, 10:00 AM by NP Editor

What hypocrites the Liberals are. For more than four decades, the Liberal Party of Canada has deliberately confused its policies with our national interest, then labelled as "un-Canadian" anyone who disagreed with them.

Not a fan of government monopoly health care? You're un-Canadian. Not big on easy unemployment benefits, official bilingualism, dismantling our military, beggaring our economy in the name of environmentalism, coddling criminals, huge public debts, activist judges, multiculturalism, foreign investment reviews, national energy policies and so on? Shame on you for being so un-Canadian.

Now the Tories are using the Liberals' own tactic against them and the Grits are sputtering with indignation.

The clear implication of the Tories' current attack ads -- the ones pointing out that Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff lived outside the country for 34 years and during that time frequently scoffed at this country'simportance-- is that Mr. Ignatieff does not care enough about this country to be entrusted with leading it.

The big problem for the Liberals is that the Tory ads, while exaggerated, are largely true: Mr. Ignatieff left the country, more or less permanently, in the 1970s, lived away most of his adult life and showed no intention of returning until he was seduced back by the idea of becoming Liberal leader in 2005.

While he was away, Canada seems barely to have crossed his mind. For instance, in The New York Times, where he wrote opinion pieces for a time, he referred to "we" Americans.

As recently as 2004 -- just a year before his opportunistic return-- Mr. Ignatieff said on C-SPAN, the congressional cable channel, "Look, this is America and you have to decide what kind of country you want. This is your country as much as it is mine."

During the 2006 election, when he was first seeking a seat in Parliament, he told The Harvard Crimson newspaper that if he lost he would move back to Massachusetts. If Canadian voters did not embrace him, he apparently had no intention of making his home here or working for the betterment of the country.

The Liberals like to say, still, that Tory Prime Minister Stephen Harper is George Bush's biggest fan. Yet, while he was head of a human rights institute at Harvard University, Mr. Ignatieff was a bigger defender of Mr. Bush's war on terror than anyone else currently in Canadian politics.

Now here's where the Liberals are their most hypocritical about the Tories' ads: Imagine their reaction if it were Mr. Harper who had spent 34 years outside the country, moved back only to take a shot at being PM, said the only thing he missed while away was a provincial park and referred to himself as an American many times.

Other Liberals were saying the same things the Tories are of Mr. Ignatieff just two-and-a-half years ago. While running against him for the Liberal leadership, Joe Volpe said no one who had been away for more than three decades could be an expert about his party or this country. Bob Rae complained "there are things about a country that you don't learn from a book," that can only be learned by being here and being at the centre of tough constitutional or economic debates. In other words, someone should only seek to lead this country if he has "Canada in his bones."

Now the Liberals are purple with rage at the Tories for saying pretty much the same things.

Again, I ask, imagine the Liberals' indignation and self-righteousness if it were a Tory leader who had spent very little time here in nearly four decades, who had (as Mr. Ignatieff did) once told a British paper our flag reminded him of "a beer label" and who, most significantly, had referred to himself as an American on several occasions.

In the 2006 election, Mr. Harper proposed a rebuilding of our military. For that "American" idea, the Liberals accused him of plotting to militarize our cities. They ran ads saying that were the Tories to be elected there would be "soldiers, with guns. In our cities. In Canada."

They claimed they were not making this up, but clearly they were. If they could spin wild conspiracies about military coups from a simple promise to rearm our military, it's not hard to speculate what they would make up to smear a Tory politician with the same CV as Mr. Ignatieff.

Their ads would make the Tories' spots look like public service announcements for the Christian Children's Fund.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

Lorne Gunter: The Liberal way with hypocrisy
Posted: May 25, 2009, 10:00 AM by NP Editor

What hypocrites the Liberals are. For more than four decades, the Liberal Party of Canada has deliberately confused its policies with our national interest, then labelled as "un-Canadian" anyone who disagreed with them.

Hey Walter, be careful your nose will soon be out of joint, a little or lots of hypocrisy is detected in your camp,

The Liberals are hypocrites?

What are you?

Enjoying the benefits put in place by past Great Liberal Governments, much like Pearson managed to bring in many of Canada's major social programs, including universal health care, the Canadian Pention Plan, and Canada Student Loans, and you have the gall to knock the Liberal mind of the past?
Fair critesisem is good but abnoxues attetude sucks.................

 

[L Gilbert]

Party groupies are funny. Always arguing back and forth, blurting a lot of hot air about how theirs are better than the other guys' party, etc. Shyte stinks regardless of whose it is, and mostly all you get from politicians is shyte.

 

[Polygong]

Disagree with Liberal policy and you are labelled un-Canadian.

Disagree with Tory/Reform policy and you are labelled a terrorist.

 

[L Gilbert]

I disagree with parts of both and I label me as picky.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

Ignatieff: No need for personal attacks

“If you mess with me, I will mess with you until I'm done,” Liberal Leader tells Harper

Ignatieff: No need for personal attacks - The Globe and Mail

 

[Francis2004]

I disagree with parts of both and I label me as picky.

I agree with you, what does that make me ?