Adam and Eve's children...

Dexter Sinister

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... end of the reptiles is said to have allowed mammals to 'explode'.
Well, 'explode' is a bit of a misnomer, as you seem to understand or you wouldn't have put it in quotes. The Cretaceous extinction event wiped out about 75% of species if I'm remembering things correctly, including a lot of mammals, and it isn't until about 10 million years later that a really diverse mammal population shows up in the fossil record. Something that takes 10 million years isn't really much of an explosion, it's just that it's pretty fast in terms of the geological time scale. Every major extinction event--and we know of at least five--shows similarly fairly rapid recoveries of diversity. Life's pretty tenacious.

But we're getting a long way from Adam and Eve's children here...
 

MHz

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Okay, the generations of man as given in Ge could have fathered quite a few people between the time there were 'daughters of men' and the actual flood. If men had more than one wife in most of the OT their growth pattern should be quite a bit higher than a society who has one wife/husband. Your example of everybody being related only took less than 40 generations didn't. (I hope it did) 40 generations (birth till having first child is about 20 yrs) is only 800 yrs. Genesis covers about 1.7 times that before the flood. With Noah the rebirth should have been 4x faster but they only has 1,1000 yrs till exodus so how big could the nations have gotten?

Mutations in this era would be greater because of fallen angels than because of close kins having children at any rate.
 

Dexter Sinister

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MHz ol' chap, none of that means anything because your premises are false. The Bible's not an accurate record of events. There was no flood, except perhaps locally, the generations of man as given in Genesis are not correct, there was no Adam and Eve, there are no angels, fallen or otherwise. You're operating from false information.
 

gopher

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''Doesn't much matter. It's mythology. Reality's consistent, mythology's not and it's foolish to try to twist it to be so.''

I'm not saying the Bible's accounts are true. Only that there were two creations. Bishop Usher's statement refers only to Adam's creation in 4004 BC. He did not refer to the earlier creation or to the time span in the ''generations'' that followed.

Therefore, there are no grounds for saying people did not exist prior to Adam.
 

Dexter Sinister

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I'm not saying the Bible's accounts are true. Only that there were two creations.
Uh huh. The Bible's where the two creation accounts appear. If you're claiming it's true that there were two creations, then you *are* saying the biblical accounts are true to some degree.
 

El Barto

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The bible was written when many of the events were long gone. Did adam and eve create writing back then too? Did they start writting thier own story?
I seriously doubt that.
Just like hollywood will push the facts to get a true story accross, to get to an essence of the story in an certain amount of time.
The bible is book of symbolisms with certain events mixed in or vis versa.
A bit comparable to the King Arther legends. The dragons , sword in the rock , the lady of the lake.....all symbolic IMO
 

JLM

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MHz ol' chap, none of that means anything because your premises are false. The Bible's not an accurate record of events. There was no flood, except perhaps locally, the generations of man as given in Genesis are not correct, there was no Adam and Eve, there are no angels, fallen or otherwise. You're operating from false information.

Hold on, not so fast there Dex. I read that the flood was caused by the sinking of the "Lost" continent of Atlantis and that would make perfect sense. You may find Edgar Cayce's books very interesting.
 

JLM

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The bible was written when many of the events were long gone. Did adam and eve create writing back then too? Did they start writting thier own story?
I seriously doubt that.
Just like hollywood will push the facts to get a true story accross, to get to an essence of the story in an certain amount of time.
The bible is book of symbolisms with certain events mixed in or vis versa.
A bit comparable to the King Arther legends. The dragons , sword in the rock , the lady of the lake.....all symbolic IMO

You are right on, there Bart. Also as I've said before "the world" to these scribes may have been only a few square miles (probably just out to the horizon), so the next town over would have been a different "world" to them. I haven't a clue when the recording first started but the accuracy of the recordings would be inversely proportional to the time elapsed, and it was probably a substantial amount of time given that a written language obviously had to be developed. So who knows maybe all this "folklore" was being recorded 500 years after the fact, which would leave quite a bit of room for a bunch of bullsh*T.
 

Dexter Sinister

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Hold on, not so fast there Dex. I read that the flood was caused by the sinking of the "Lost" continent of Atlantis and that would make perfect sense. You may find Edgar Cayce's books very interesting.
You've got to be kidding. There was no global flood, there was no Atlantis, and Edgar Cayce was a fraud who's been thoroughly discredited.
 

Johnnny

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This is a question to those who believe in the story of Adam and Eve literally.

Are we to understand that humanity was born out of incestuous relationships? If a single female-male couple is at the origin of humanity, isn't incest unavoidable at the bottom of the ancestor tree?

The other alternate theory is that we were all created on a island in the meditteranian by an evil scientist, and somewhow UFO's are involved
 

MHz

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Well, 'explode' is a bit of a misnomer, as you seem to understand or you wouldn't have put it in quotes. The Cretaceous extinction event wiped out about 75% of species if I'm remembering things correctly, including a lot of mammals, and it isn't until about 10 million years later that a really diverse mammal population shows up in the fossil record. Something that takes 10 million years isn't really much of an explosion, it's just that it's pretty fast in terms of the geological time scale. Every major extinction event--and we know of at least five--shows similarly fairly rapid recoveries of diversity. Life's pretty tenacious.

But we're getting a long way from Adam and Eve's children here...
In the 10 million years before the near extinction event how how many new species compared to the end of the 10 million after the extinction event? If the one after had a greater number and that number was similar yet somewhat greater that is an increase, if it is in the 1,000's or higher then that is an explosion.

If you want to take this exercise as being hypothetical that's fine, that lets you contribute. If you want to prove the Bible before going on with the exercise then we are back at the banker question. Did God's system of banking work to the advantage of all, while our system is geared to having a small elite and a mass of unfortunates? That would seem to make God smarter than we are today. (unless the mass majority are poor because they demand to be) In the recover phase it would have taken the same route the earth has always used when recovering, moisture, a seed, a plant, (small life), a tree (larger life and birds move into their new home). In terms of speed it can almost be said it is an aggressive recovery, Mt. St. Helen recovered much faster than what was originally forecast. How long before the land recovered from that last great flood of the Mississippi River. A spring flood and by that fall everything would be green again (not saying it was the crops the people wanted, they might have called the plants weeds but it was most likely food for somebody.

MHz ol' chap, none of that means anything because your premises are false. The Bible's not an accurate record of events. There was no flood, except perhaps locally, the generations of man as given in Genesis are not correct, there was no Adam and Eve, there are no angels, fallen or otherwise. You're operating from false information.
For this exercise it only has to be used to fill in a set of parameters. If you want to use modern data then a study should be to closely monitor the mutations DU causes
in babies. Course most of them will never reproduce so they can't become a new species but they would certainly seem to have started down a path that could lead to new species.
You don't believe in angels, we can get around that by hypothetically thinking ahead till our science could do those things. Take a normal baby and turn it into a giant, some as tall as any drawing that exists in Egypt today. 20ft would not be beyond the possibilities. No species change just better living through chemistry, not just one giant a race that filled the earth.

Now if we spliced our genes (men) with a lower level of primate would the 'children' be a separate species? In Scripture that would be fallen angels and daughters of Eve.
Given enough time if the desire was to create hybrids of man and beast it could probably be done.

Is Eve a twin (genetically) or a clone? The male/female difference would have me voting for twin. What would happen if cloned sheep had off-spring?
 

Dexter Sinister

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No way, there was a program on T.V. a few years ago, every claim of his has been authenticated.
And apparently you believed it. Would that have been on the History Channel in October of 2007, the same evening they lauded Nostrademus? I remember seeing some of that too, and changed channels in disgust. Considering the kind of credulous junk I've seen on tv being passed off as legitimate research, even by once reputable outfits like the History Channel and the Discovery Channel, I wouldn't take that seriously. Television is about ratings, not reality.

Nostradamus Lauded.
Edgar Cayce - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com
 
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Dexter Sinister

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In the 10 million years before the near extinction event how how many new species compared to the end of the 10 million after the extinction event?
I have no idea. You'd have to get a paleontologist for that one, which I'm not, I can't even think of how to begin to research it. What I do know is that the record shows a normal diversity up to the K-T boundary, then a drastic drop, and a recovery over about 10 million years.
If you want to take this exercise as being hypothetical that's fine...
How could it be anything else?
If you want to prove the Bible before going on with the exercise...
I have no interest in doing that. I've shown you elsewhere some of its inconsistencies and errors of fact and logic, it seems self-evidently not true to me. You're the one claiming it's true, so proving it's your problem, not mine. What exactly is the point you're trying to make in this hypothetical exercise?
 

MHz

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I have no idea. You'd have to get a paleontologist for that one, which I'm not, I can't even think of how to begin to research it. What I do know is that the record shows a normal diversity up to the K-T boundary, then a drastic drop, and a recovery over about 10 million years.
How could it be anything else?
I have no interest in doing that. I've shown you elsewhere some of its inconsistencies and errors of fact and logic, it seems self-evidently not true to me. You're the one claiming it's true, so proving it's your problem, not mine. What exactly is the point you're trying to make in this hypothetical exercise?
I didn't start the thread and the original question would seem to have been answered, soooo.........
 

JLM

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And apparently you believed it. Would that have been on the History Channel in October of 2007, the same evening they lauded Nostrademus? I remember seeing some of that too, and changed channels in disgust. Considering the kind of credulous junk I've seen on tv being passed off as legitimate research, even by once reputable outfits like the History Channel and the Discovery Channel, I wouldn't take that seriously. Television is about ratings, not reality.

Nostradamus Lauded.
Edgar Cayce - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com

No it was years before that maybe 20 years ago. I was just reading up on him, still lots of believers today- I think he was legit.
 

gerryh

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No it was years before that maybe 20 years ago. I was just reading up on him, still lots of believers today- I think he was legit.

Oh ya....this guy was definatley legit.:roll:

Edgar Cayce (pronounced Casey) is known as one of America's greatest psychics. His followers maintain that Cayce was able to tap into some sort of higher consciousness, such as God or the akashic record, to get his "psychic knowledge." He used this "knowledge" to predict that California will slide into the ocean and that New York City will be destroyed in some sort of cataclysm. He predicted that in 1958 the U.S. would discover some sort of death ray used on Atlantis. Cayce is one of the main people responsible for some of the sillier notions about Atlantis, including the idea that the Atlanteans had some sort of Great Crystal. Cayce called the Great Crystal the Tuaoi Stone and said it was a huge cylindrical prism that was used to gather and focus "energy," allowing the Atlanteans to do all kinds of fantastic things. But they got greedy and stupid, tuned up their Crystal to too high a frequency and set off volcanic disturbances that led to the destruction of that ancient world. He made other predictions concerning such things as the Great Depression (that 1933 would be a good year) and the Lindbergh kidnapping (most of it wrong, all of it useless), and that China would be converted to Christianity by 1968.
 

Dexter Sinister

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No it was years before that maybe 20 years ago. I was just reading up on him, still lots of believers today- I think he was legit.
Nope, gerryh's got it right, citing from the second link I gave, the man was a fake. I've no doubt he believed in himself, he wasn't a conscious fraud, just deluded. You're right that lots of people still believe in him, but that doesn't mean anything. Lots of people believe all sorts of stupid things without a shred of evidence: astrology, palmistry, graphology, reflexology, homeopathy, iridology, spirit channelling, astral projection, telepathy, telekinesis, clairvoyance, talking to the dead, dowsing... ah, the list is endless.