Too Fat To Work - Need More Benefit Money

[Machjo]

And yet good healthy food is much more expensive. Maybe it would be better to simply reduce the costs of good food to the point where it can cover the same amount of meals that eating unhealthy covers over the course of a month.

I don't think it's realistic to just magically reduce the cost of healthy food. But there is an alternative. We lower income taxes, and that gives people more disposable income to buy healthy.

So where do we get the money then? Simple, tax the undesirables like alcohol, tobacco, meat, milk, eggs, etc.

 

[Machjo]

But like I said, don't touch my veggies.

 

[Machjo]

From the Universal Declaration of Human Rights

Fair enough, but we can still dictate how they get that money. They don't get to choose welfare. We can offer welfare if appropriate, or insist on workfare, or insist on whatever else (literacy courses, etc.)that they must compulsority attend to get that money. We can insist on a combination of things too, such as attending a course and volunteer work during their transition period, etc. too.

There are ways to get them back to work while still respecting their rights.

The whole time they're on assistance, we must ensure that they are developing in some way and not sitting around, That can include pgrading literacy skills, drug rehab, trade or professional training, compulsory volunteer work to gain work eperience and work habits and references, etc. But keep them active during their time on assistance and keep them developing and moving forward in their abilities till they do get the job. But they should not be allowed to just sit around. In fact, I doubt many of them would want to ust sit around. Give them measurable targets to aim for at all times until they're back to work.

 

[tracy]

Yeah, a psychological disorder. Do you think that someone who over eats to this point isn't dealing with some sort of psychological disorder? We're not talking about twenty pounds over weight. Security issue, self loathing, all kinds of stuff makes people obese.
Not just laziness and over indulgence.

Of course, but none of them are unchangeable. Everyone has their demons to face. Not all demons require a welfare payment for life.



One thing is for sure, fat people are a target for others to dump on.
They aren't for me. I don't approve of making them a target for abuse. I also don't approve of someone like these people trying to milk it either.

Once you hit about 40 BMI you get pretty limited as to what you can do.
I think you'd be surprised at how much people can do when their weight has been pretty steadily increased. If you gain 100lbs in 6 months, you'll have a real hard time. When you've been obese for years and years, you often adapt a bit. Like I say, I've known nurses who later got gastric bypass (BMI over 40 is the minimum here for that). It is not impossible to work while obese. You just have to find a job that isn't physically demanding.

Then of course there is the problem of getting someone to hire you. While there are still people who won't allow Black or Brown people to move into upper executive levels in some companies, there are also some who won't hire fatties. Doesn't matter how smart of efficient you are when someone has written you off after seeing what you look like.
I get that. It's harder. Harder is not impossible.


For some it's like an addiction. Most junkies and alkys will tell you they wish they weren't the way they are. But they are at that point powerless to change. They need help to get through it and for some people who are morbidly obese, it takes a number of dedicated people to help them make the changes in their lifestyle in order to regain their health. But that costs money. Lots of money. Not to mention, there is a pretty big industry that does nothing other than sell fat to people who can't control themselves. That makes things a little more difficult.
Sure, but even junkies at some point have to either clean up or die. That's just reality. Not fair, not easy, just the way it is.


The point I am making in all of this is that people shouldn't be fooled by tabloid news to vilify a group of people who for the most part already have enough trouble as it is.

I don't see my opinion as vilifying the fat. I don't feel that way at all. I also don't believe in coddling perpetual victims.

 

[lone wolf]

A simple solution could be to reduce income taxes and introduce taxes on undesirables. Remove the wide-seeping GST and target it to specific things like tobacco, alcohol, meat, eggs, milk. But leave the veggies alone of course!:smile:

The drop in income taxes would give people more spending money. but the tax increae on desirables would make people buy more healthy foods.

Problem.... Anyone on social assistance does not pay income tax.

 

[TenPenny]

Obviously you don't have a weight problem.

Obviously, you don't know much about me, and have never seen me.

Here's your membership to the clueless club. You get a free year.

 

[Machjo]

Problem.... Anyone on social assistance does not pay income tax.

I agree. But not every policy must be a panacea for every ill. The policies I'd proposed above would help at least the working poor.

As for those not working, even if there is no tax increase, or even a tax de-crease overall, we could stil get enough money to help the poor:

1. Language policy reform. According to various research, the world is currently spending trillions of dollars annually on English-learning, translation, interpretation, etc. Professor Francois Grin, a language economist at the University of Geneva, proposed that switching the world to an easier language coud save the EU alone 25 billions euros on second-language lerning alone. THis does not include savings on translation, interpretation, etc., nor does it include savings in other parts of the world.

2. Sharing a common world military froce could allow the world to demilitarize considerably, again freeing up funds to help the poor.

3. Sharing a world currency could bring the cost of imports down worldwide, cost that are artificially high owing to money-brokers skimming off the top.

4. Promoting common citizenship at least between nations with common currencies would save much money on embassies, visas, immigration departments, customs, etc. They'd still be needed possibly, but their work would be considerably diminished.

All of these could either free up tax dollars or bring costs of production down.

Though I have nothing against making the rich pay their fair share to help the poor, it doesn't have to be through the government necessarily, and it doesn't have to be the sole solution we depend on. Making government more efficient and streamlined is another source of money to help the poor too.

In communities with community gardens, the unemployed could also earn their assistance by working in these gardens. They'd love it. If I were on assistance, the last thing I'd want is for someone to just throw money at me. I'd want to earn that assistance somehow, and we owe the poor to give them that chance to earn their assistance. Looking at it that way, to just throw money at them coud be viewed as cruel in some respects. They do have a right to the dignity of a job, even if the salary is low. Even those on social assistance shoudl be given an opportunity to earn it if they want to. Give them volunteer opportunities if there are no jobs available yet or if they lack references, etc. If something blocks them from even volunteer work, such as lack of references, etc. (yes, some volunteer agencies need references), then we help them surmount this so that they can do volunteer work through which to gain the references needed.

Everyone has a right to work. We might not have a right to wealth, but we all have a right to work.

 

[JLM]

The main reason that people are overweight is because they don't try to not be overweight. Sure, some people need help to overcome it, but it's a decision to make.

I just don't have much sympathy for people who eat 3000 calories a day, and then complain because they're overweight. What did you think, the weight fairy comes by at night and sticks fat on your body? Join the dots, you can figure it out.

Whine snivel, I'm a victim. Sure, but you don't have to keep being one. We're all victims of one thing or another. Don't let it rule your life, and stop looking for someone else to blame for everything.

There's nothing wrong with eating 3000 calories a day as long as you are doing 2 hours of intense exercise- I'm lucky, I just love eating and I just love hard work and exercise, but you have to be sensible - do one in accordance with the other. Actually the person who eats lots and exercises lots is way better off than the person who doesn't do much of either- they likely don't have much strength.

 

[JLM]

I think incentive towards healthy living should be paramount! and taxing unhealthy cheap junk food would be sensible. They teach healthy choices for food in most schools. Remember the food pyramid? it's elementary school stuff.

There is nothing wrong with not being skinny. Having a few extra pounds is ok. It's only a problem when it impacts your quality of life, as it's doing to these people. The parents are making excuses for why they can't work...yet millions of people are overweight and hold down jobs.

I think, especially during your later years, it's healthy to pack 5 or 10 extra pounds just so you do have something to fall back on (no pun intended) if you do get sick.

 

[JLM]

"So where do we get the money then? Simple, tax the undesirables like alcohol, tobacco, meat, milk, eggs, etc. "- Not so fast, you should stop after "tobacco", skim milk is excellent - provides calcium w/o cholesterol, eggs are excellent, they don't have the bad cholesterol and actually you want to be careful about meat- it's necessary for vitamin B12 and you better watch you don't deprive people who have a glass or two of red wine a day- but I agree, go ahead and tax the hell out of sugar and salt and hydrogenated oil and trans fats in excessive amounts. You have to live life too, so I say EVERYTHING IN MODERATION.

 

[VanIsle]

Obviously, you don't know much about me, and have never seen me.

Here's your membership to the clueless club. You get a free year.

Thanks. I want to thank you for being such a well mannered easy to get along with person.:roll:

 

[Machjo]

"So where do we get the money then? Simple, tax the undesirables like alcohol, tobacco, meat, milk, eggs, etc. "- Not so fast, you should stop after "tobacco", skim milk is excellent - provides calcium w/o cholesterol, eggs are excellent, they don't have the bad cholesterol and actually you want to be careful about meat- it's necessary for vitamin B12 and you better watch you don't deprive people who have a glass or two of red wine a day- but I agree, go ahead and tax the hell out of sugar and salt and hydrogenated oil and trans fats in excessive amounts. You have to live life too, so I say EVERYTHING IN MODERATION.

But don't tax the brown sugar, and especially not the maple syrup or i'll change my mind about not owning firearms!

 

[Twila]

Machjo, I like what you're saying. There are many "jobs" out there that need "volunteers". Why not encourage a can work welfare recipient to "earn" his/her money? And I like the other choices you've offered.

Our gov't offers many many free courses to those on income assistance and EI. I took them up on their offer when I was a single parent and my daughter was very young. I actually took a free course in manual bookkeeping and computerized accounting. It's because of this class that I am where I am today.

Because of my experiences on welfare, I know about the effects of long term collecting. I saw it in families who were second generation recipients. I know the embarrassment when people ask you how your "earn" a living...or the perspective employer asks what you've been doing for the last year or two ( Or more for long time collectors) Sometimes the worst thing you can do is give a hand out with no strings, and group these people together in "low income" housing. They're out of the loop, and theyfeel it intensely. They also can "bolster" each other against the establishment which only helps keep them away from reality.

Working would give them back some self esteem and self reliance. It could also solve some volunteer issues.

 

[Twila]

But don't tax the brown sugar, and especially not the maple syrup or i'll change my mind about not owning firearms

I"d be willing to go to war for maple syrup. It's expensive enough!

 

[talloola]

Some heart meds can make you retain water ... but that doesn't rub off on the wife and kids.... True enough, fruit and veggies are more expensive than candy bars and potato chips. McDonalds and Wendys aren't all that cheap either....

vegetables are not expensive at all, unless you're into the exotic onces, no need for
that.

 

[JLM]

vegetables are not expensive at all, unless you're into the exotic onces, no need for
that.

Right again talloola, pound for pound they are a hell of a lot cheaper than chocolate bars or chips. Cabbage is an excellent vegetable for about 70 cents a lb. People who insist on eating junk aren't going to listen to reason anyway.

 

[Twila]

vegetables are not expensive at all, unless you're into the exotic onces, no need for
that.

There was recently a documentary on the television which explained that for some people living in a city it was impossible to get fresh fruits and vegetables. And the canned ones were expensive. this was in the USA cities mind you.

 

[JLM]

There was recently a documentary on the television which explained that for some people living in a city it was impossible to get fresh fruits and vegetables. And the canned ones were expensive. this was in the USA cities mind you.

Well, there's a perfect opportunity for an entreneur all he would need is a truck, a few tables, a cash register and rent a corner in Walmarts parking lot and I'm sure he'd find a huge demand for fresh vegetables. (That is until WAlmart notices how well he's doing and starts selling fresh vegetables)

 

[lone wolf]

Don't forget the vendors permit....
Truck? I understand GM has some great deals. Insuring it? Never a bargain. Fuel? Depends on the Esso's profit margin. Now, with your mark-up on what Mister Green-Jeans sold you ... how cheap can you sell your produce - allowing for spoilage?
Even the farmers' markets don't sell for much less than the grocery stores. It's just a lot more fun...

 

[Liberalman]

Fat people should be inducted into a military style complex in the outer edges of the country and they should be put to work and fed the minimum so they can lose their weight to about ten to twenty pounds overweight.

Since I am a fat man I will lead the pack.

Fat people put a strain on the healthcare system and with government healthcare, increased cost for taxpayers.

Fat people common ailments are sore feet and ankles and knees and hips and backs.

Fat people also suffer or will suffer from diabetes that can lead to heart problems, strokes, blindness, limb amputations and nerve problems and many more.

Who’s at fault well you are probably saying the fat person well I disagree with you I say that it is the fat food seller that increased the portion size dramatically over the years and added dangerous chemicals like trans-fats and MSG.

I also say that it is the farmer who raises animals for human consumption using growth hormones that transfers to meat on your table and to the milk that you drink.

I also say that it is the schools that make physical education an elective class and not mandatory so now fat kids is a norm.

The government can save lots of money by motivating a fat person to lose the weight by the carrot or the stick.

The government can also bring in regulations for food companies not to put chemicals in the foods and restrict the use of growth hormones in animals going to market.

The government can bring in laws that make it mandatory for students to take physical education from K-12 and make post secondary students take mandatory phys-ed classes and if the school refuses then they would pull their funding.

The Conservative government likes to bring in bundled law bills they should include these with the next batch of bills.

If they do this then all the relatives of the fat people will vote for them for thinking of their loved ones and helping them live longer.