Earth Hour: Turn Off the Lights!

[SirJosephPorter]

You declared the 25 watter the national light bulb of India earlier in this thread. Opinion? By your own admission of your trusted news sources, I have a more diverse source of information than you do.

RanchHand, about that. I have seen it with my own eyes. When we visited India two years ago, one of our Indian friends (we know several Indian doctors) here fixed it. He said that his family was very rich, with a huge house and a fleet of servants, but he knew a middle class family. We lived with them for two days, lived exactly as they did (for a fee, of course).

There were seven of us in a three room (that is three room, not three bedroom) apartment, the family of five and us. The lifestyle was quite an eye opener. I won’t go into the details, but I have seen the 25 watt bulbs with my own eyes. The man told me that they are quite common in India.

Now, if you think I am lying, go right ahead. But while your post challenged my assertion, another post was significant by its absence. My post was not directed to you, but to Yukon Jack. He is an immigrant to Canada himself (I won’t disclose from what country, I will leave that to him). When he read my post, he probably realized that it contained truth. I don’t know if 25 watt bulbs are common in his country, but he probably remembered that 60 or 100 watt bulbs are a lot less common in his country that they are in North America. That is why he didn’t challenge my assertion.

But you did. Now, here I may be wrong, but I get the impression that you don’t know anybody from third world country, you probably never have been to a third world country even as a tourist, let alone mix with the local population and see how they live.

You probably sit in your palatial home (and any home you own is palatial compared to how most of the people in the world live), don’t know a whole lot about third world, but think you do.

So if you think I am lying, go right ahead and continue believing. It probably will take me quite a while to dig up a web reference to this, and to what purpose? It probably wouldn’t convince you anyway. You have already made up your mind. If you think that most people in third world live like kings and queens, it is all the same to me.

Anyway, remember that Yukon Jack (to whom my post was directed) didn’t challenge my assertion, and he should know, he is an immigrant himself.

 

[shadowshiv]

There are a lot of people in Canada and the US that do not live in large houses. Not everyone has "palatial" sized housing.

 

[lone wolf]

There are a lot of people in Canada and the US that do not live in large houses. Not everyone has "palatial" sized housing.

I have 850 square feet that I call home. Hardly palatial ... but it is comfortable.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Sahdowshiv, Lone Wolf, again, have you visited a third world country? Have you experienced first hand how they live?

Lone Wolf, you 850 sq. feet home is small by our standard. In India, typical middle class family would live in an apartment of around 400 - 450 sq. feet. That would be husband, wife, two or three kids, many times father and/or mother of the man, and occasionally younger brother or sister. (who may be going to the university, or may have just got a job).

The apartment we lived in must have been around 450 sq. ft., on the bigger side as apartments go.

Give them your 850 sq. ft house (for a family of three or four) and they will consider it palatial.

 

[Kreskin]

This could end up causing higher energy demand. Lets see if we have a baby boom in 9 months.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

We regard Singapore as a prosperous country, I have been to Singapore. Most people there live in apartments, western style individual houses are hideously expensive, and only the very rich can afford them.

 

[shadowshiv]

Sahdowshiv, Lone Wolf, again, have you visited a third world country? Have you experienced first hand how they live?

Lone Wolf, you 850 sq. feet home is small by our standard. In India, typical middle class family would live in an apartment of around 400 - 450 sq. feet. That would be husband, wife, two or three kids, many times father and/or mother of the man, and occasionally younger brother or sister. (who may be going to the university, or may have just got a job).

The apartment we lived in must have been around 450 sq. ft., on the bigger side as apartments go.

Give them your 850 sq. ft house (for a family of three or four) and they will consider it palatial.

No, I haven't. Nor do I care to. I will speak of my living conditions, and they are not palatial. Perhaps the "rich" people in said third-world countries should help their fellow countrymen instead of relying on outside sources?

 

[shadowshiv]

We regard Singapore as a prosperous country, I have been to Singapore. Most people there live in apartments, western style individual houses are hideously expensive, and only the very rich can afford them.

And nothing we say or do will change that fact at all. They have to start the changes themselves.

 

[Kreskin]

So how do you suggest reducing consumption if not by reducing consumption?

That's the point. You haven't reduced production because you haven't reduced consumption. They won't be shutting down generators on the grid because there was a 3% drop in consumption for an hour. People have turned their lights back on and everything is as it was. This action has had no effect other than making a political statement.

 

[lone wolf]

Sahdowshiv, Lone Wolf, again, have you visited a third world country? Have you experienced first hand how they live?

Lone Wolf, you 850 sq. feet home is small by our standard. In India, typical middle class family would live in an apartment of around 400 - 450 sq. feet. That would be husband, wife, two or three kids, many times father and/or mother of the man, and occasionally younger brother or sister. (who may be going to the university, or may have just got a job).

The apartment we lived in must have been around 450 sq. ft., on the bigger side as apartments go.

Give them your 850 sq. ft house (for a family of three or four) and they will consider it palatial.

I hope you went by sailboat because you certainly provide the fuel.

Have I visited a third world country? Does the Golan Heights qualify?... or Cyprus?... ...or Alert?

I live on a disability pension too - which would make me wealthy by Indian or Chinese standards. Be advised: since I am not there, your argument doesn't hold as much air as you.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

No, I haven't. Nor do I care to. I will speak of my living conditions, and they are not palatial. Perhaps the "rich" people in said third-world countries should help their fellow countrymen instead of relying on outside sources?

What you care or don’t care is up to you, doesn’t make any difference to me. However, I stand by my contention, that any home you own is palatial compared to third world standards.

 

[#juan]

Activity related to humanity absolutely contributes to the system. The issue here whether humanity is a significant component within the system, more so than the natural drivers, the cyclical potential of the system itself, or outside elements like solar input.
Eight trillion tons of CO2 is not significant?

The industrial revolution is an excellent example. I believe that it hit it's heights in the early 1800's, but was underway and developing momentum decades prior to that... If that is considered to be a starting point, I ask why the ambient temps decreased marginally or remained steady for well over a century? Further, guys like Suzuki were speaking quite specifically about 'the new ice age' back in the late '70's.. Surely, the system hasn't swung 180 degrees in 20-30 years to go from drastic cooling to dramatic warming?
The industrial revolution did not hit it's heights. It is still building. When we talk about global warming or climate change we are talking about a couple degrees or less. A one or two degree rise in the mean global temperature would have catastrophic consequences. Global warming is a self feeding thing. When the ice melts and exposes bare ground, that ground will absorb more heat which will lead to more melting and so on. One look at the changes that have taken place in Canada's Arctic should convince anyone. The worst thing is that we don't know if it can be stopped.

 

[Cannuck]

No, I haven't. Nor do I care to. I will speak of my living conditions, and they are not palatial. Perhaps the "rich" people in said third-world countries should help their fellow countrymen instead of relying on outside sources?

Yup, there is no reason the average person in Kenya can't live in a house like mine. Singapore is a different matter though. Not enough land.

I'm not sure what the size of the house has to do with anything. I've always heard that size doesn't matter though I wouldn't know about such things.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Does the Golan Heights qualify?... or Cyprus?... ...or Alert?

Lone Wolf, no and no. And what is ‘Alert’? Golan heights or Cyprus don’t qualify as third world countries. Look up their per capita income you will see it is substantial. Still, you probably may have noticed that standard of living over there is significantly lower than what we enjoy in North America.

While I have not been to either of these places, my guess is that they also live in small apartments, and they will consider your 850 sq. ft. house huge.

 

[Cannuck]

So how do you suggest reducing consumption if not by reducing consumption?

It has to be a long term, significant and sustainable reduction in consumption. Turning off your lights for an hour does not accomplish this. As I've indicated, the power plants were still operational while people sat in the dark.

 

[Kreskin]

It has to be a long term, significant and sustainable reduction in consumption. Turning off your lights for an hour does not accomplish this. As I've indicated, the power plants were still operational while people sat in the dark.

But as said earlier, this is about awareness. No one will ever switch anything off without switching mindset. How can you develop a long term sustainable reduction when people get disjointed by something like this? It reminds me off everyone who argued they could drink and drive no problem..possibly drive better drunk. It took years to change thinking before it got people off the roads. This too will take years but you have to start somewhere.

 

[lone wolf]

Does the Golan Heights qualify?... or Cyprus?... ...or Alert?

Lone Wolf, no and no. And what is ‘Alert’? Golan heights or Cyprus don’t qualify as third world countries. Look up their per capita income you will see it is substantial. Still, you probably may have noticed that standard of living over there is significantly lower than what we enjoy in North America.

While I have not been to either of these places, my guess is that they also live in small apartments, and they will consider your 850 sq. ft. house huge.

What is Alert? Good lord I was under the impression you knew it all....

I really don't give a damn if people are accustomed to living as four generations in a mud hut. That's there. What concerns me is here - and in this here, disability puts me near the bottom of the food chain in the estimation of they with the wealth and power.

Again ... to spare the abrasive battle of wear-him-down semantics, you can be the winner because it's so important to your cause.

 

[Cannuck]

But as said earlier, this is about awareness.

..and as said earlier, everybody is aware. I really believe this is about people doing nothing but giving themselves the feeling they are doing something. To me, at best, it's nothing more than a self-congratulatory pat on the back and at worst, it is proselytizing.

 

[RanchHand]

Quoting RanchHandI thought it was relevant because you had called me an anti-environmentalist just prior to that and I thought it was reasonable to question your commitment to the environment in turn, rather than to just call you a name. So you could say it's relevant in both content and in timing. ​

I called you anti-environmentalist based upon what you said abut earth hour, nothing more. I don’t know what else you do or do not do to preserve environment, and I have no way of knowing it. But I do know what you said abut earth hour, and based upon the content and the tone, I come to the conclusion that you are an anti-environmentalist.

Similarly, if you want to form an opinion about me, form it from what I am saying here about earth hour, not what I may or may not claim to be doing for environment (which very well could be a lie anyway, you have no way of knowing).
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YOU: You anti-environmentalists are an amusing bunch.
ME: Other than cutting the power to your light bulbs on command, how do I know what kind of environmentalist your are?
YOU: RanchHand, and why is that relevant to anything?
ME: I thought it was relevant because you had called me an anti-environmentalist just prior to that and I thought it was reasonable to question your commitment to the environment in turn, rather than to just call you a name. So you could say it's relevant in both content and in timing.
YOU: I called you anti-environmentalist based upon .........

See how you switch the topic, allowing you to stay in a thread forever, leaving the person you are communicating with finding himself talking to a prankster rather than a genuine poster? You do this so often it's fair to say you are an unethical poster, and no, that's not my opinion. It's you words I have repeated for you to follow. You're just a prankster.

 

[Cannuck]

you can be the winner because it's so important to your cause.

It's not about winning and losing. SJP doesn't believe there can be winners or losers on a web forum...unless he declares himself one.