Israel has the right to defend its people. Hamas is Iran's bouncer

[gopher]

'Hamas showing its idea of compromise'


Unfortunately, this is the way the right wing media is reporting it in the USA and Canada. The reality is the precise opposite:



All of the suffering in Gaza – indeed, all of the suffering endured by Palestinians under Israeli occupation for the last eight years – could have been avoided if Israel negotiated a peace agreement with Yasser Arafat when it had the chance, in 2001.''


Does Israeli Intelligence Lie? - by Ira Chernus



The conservative antiwar.com has been reporting the truth all along.

This is why there have been so many pro Palestinian parades throughout Europe and the world.

 

[Andem]

Well with a a bit of notice to Cannuck's first post on this page and also regarding his mention of the honesty of Israeli honesty, god no, who believes anything [the Israelis] they say.

On the other side, who can believe anything Hamas or the Arabs say? I don't care about politic correctness, and that is not what this site is about. My issue is the Canadian government supporting what one side says and pays no attention to what is happening. But since I live and pay taxes in Germany, my real concern is who the Canadian government sides with and that is who controls it

 

[gopher]

Backed By Iran, Hamas Aims to Hit Tel Aviv


[URL="http://virtualreview.org/china/zoom/504304/backed-by-iran-hamas-aims-to-hit-tel-aviv"]http://virtualreview.org/china/zoom/504304/backed-by-iran-hamas-aims-to-hit-tel-aviv[/URL]

Soc -- your source Virtual Review and its source China confidential are both blogs. They are not credible news sources.

 

[Colpy]

"All of the suffering in Gaza – indeed, all of the suffering endured by Palestinians under Israeli occupation for the last eight years – could have been avoided if Yassar Arafat negotiated a peace agreement with Israel when he had the chance, in 2001.''

Indeed, all of the war and suffering in Gaza could have been avoided if they only simply had accepted israel's FULL WITHDRAWAL in 2005.............with the prospect of withdrawal from the West Bank as well.

but the Palistinians would rather snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.....

 

[gopher]

''The guy make a VERY good case that even the Arab gov't of Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon etc are very quietly hoping the Israerlis kick the shyte right out of Hamas.....''


Link please.

 

[Spade]

Well with a a bit of notice to Cannuck's first post on this page and also regarding his mention of the honesty of Israeli honesty, god no, who believes anything [the Israelis] they say.

On the other side, who can believe anything Hamas or the Arabs say? I don't care about politic correctness, and that is not what this site is about. My issue is the Canadian government supporting what one side says and pays no attention to what is happening. But since I live and pay taxes in Germany, my real concern is who the Canadian government sides with and that is who controls it

Exactly! And, here (in Canada) the news and opinion are managed.

 

[CDNBear]

'Hamas showing its idea of compromise'


Unfortunately, this is the way the right wing media is reporting it in the USA and Canada. The reality is the precise opposite:

Ya, those rockets are a figment of the wests imagination...:roll:

 

[gopher]

''if Yassar Arafat negotiated a peace agreement with Israel when he had the chance, in 2001.''


He tried. Even the conservatives in that website agree. Knowing that you would NEVER attempt to refute conservatives is why I used that site.

 

[Zzarchov]

''The guy make a VERY good case that even the Arab gov't of Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon etc are very quietly hoping the Israerlis kick the shyte right out of Hamas.....''


Link please.

Well Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood have caused massive problems and attempted to take over the majority of those governments.

 

[Cannuck]

Yet, you appear to attribute all the problems there to Hamas.

Wow! I guess CDNBear is right. You are shallow and obtuse. What part of...

"You can blame Israel if it helps you sleep at night and God knows (pun intended) they are not blameless"

...did you not understand?

It is becoming more and more clear that you simply pick and choose what supports your position and ignore whatever doesn't.

 

[gopher]

http://www.unhchr.ch/huricane/huricane.nsf/0/0478C20910151B14C12571940058247A?opendocument

Human Rights Violations in Israel and Palestine

Human Rights Violations In Occupied Palestine




Rockets may not have been imaginary. But neither have the on going Israeli repressions of Palestinians that the news media ignores.

 

[gopher]

''did you not understand?''


I said, ''you appear''. I did not say you strictly attributed those problems to Hamas.

Didn't you understand?

Talk about obtuse.

 

[Andem]

Exactly! And, here (in Canada) the news and opinion are managed.

Well of course the opinion it's managed, so are the opinions which you see on CTV News, moreso with Mansbridge.

It's amazing how I (personally) digest what I see with CTV and then afterwards on CBC. Then I read the forums and it's much more diverse.... then I take a look at other sources around the world and can't make sense of what is really happening.

Not to mention what European and German news mention about the topic, which usually veer off of what the North American media sources are saying.

 

[gopher]

''Muslim Brotherhood have caused massive problems and attempted to take over the majority of those governments. ''


This much is true. That is why the Egyptian, Syria, and Algerian governments have been especially brutal in stopping these groups from taking over their governments.

 

[Spade]

Well of course the opinion it's managed, so are the opinions which you see on CTV News, moreso with Mansbridge.

It's amazing how I (personally) digest what I see with CTV and then afterwards on CBC. Then I read the forums and it's much more diverse.... then I take a look at other sources around the world and can't make sense of what is really happening.

This is what I meant, obliquely.

 

[gopher]

''Not to mention what European and German news mention about the topic, which usually veer off of what the North American media sources are saying. ''


This is precisely why over half a million people in France, Spain, USA, and England marched against Israel:

Thousands descend on White House to protest Gaza war - Yahoo! News

Tens of thousands march against Israel in France - Expatica

More than 100,000 in pro-Gaza march in Spain - Taiwan News Online

TPF: Thousands of Swiss march against Israeli offensive



If the right wing media in Canada and the USA reported the truth, we would have more such parades.

 

[Spade]

And the honestly-held opinions you see so hotly debated on these threads are, in part, a consequence of that management!

 

[Colpy]

''The guy make a VERY good case that even the Arab gov't of Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon etc are very quietly hoping the Israerlis kick the shyte right out of Hamas.....''


Link please.

globeandmail.com: Welcome to the new Middle East

 

[Socrates the Greek]

globeandmail.com: Welcome to the new Middle East

Iran’s political ambition to become the super power of the Middle East, the Iranian regime would love to blast a nuke on Israel.
A War where both countries use nukes can easily spell danger; it is amassing how the word anger is one letter short of D anger.
No country should ever resort to that level of persuasion against another country unless attacked by some extreme weaponry.

 

[gopher]

Colpy,

Thank you for the link. I have a few questions:

Rubin said the Iranian government offered $ 1 million for Mubarak's assassination. This is the first I've heard of this. The American media has literally crucified Ahmadinejad for every verbal slip up he has made. Why didn't they make an issue of this if it is true?

"Iran is a real threat to Arab security." --- Several Arab sources have said this over the years because they are Sunni and very prejudiced against Shiia. I don't know that he represents the government of Saudi Arabia or anyone other than himself in this regard.

''the Palestinian Authority blames Hamas for the fighting.'' --- I'm not sure that they do. Just the same, Al-Fatah's Arafat and Hamas were in a civil conflict because both sought power in Palestine. But the idea that PA wants a victory for Israel and the promise of continuous occupation is something nobody in their right mind would believe.

''virtually all Arab states - other than Iran's ally, Syria - and the Palestinian Authority want to see Hamas defeated in Gaza. '' --- Then why were there so many anti Israel protests all over those countries?

''the largely Sunni Muslim-led states face a largely Shia Muslim-led competitor for regional hegemony.'' --- Shiia Hezbollah is a threat to those Sunni states? How? It is only a group in Lebanon. It is in no position to threaten any state.

''Iran [wants] 'Islamist revolution in every country' [and] as the region's dominant state'' --- total rubbish. It has no influence except now in Iraq thanks to Bush's invasion which killed off the secularist regime and inflamed the Sunni-Shiia rivalry. The Islamists as we discussed on this thread already are Sunni - how the hell can anyone believe Iran is going to fund its own enemy?


''Arab states don't want to help their worst enemy. Why should anyone else?'' --- That's my question.


Rubin (an Israeli) is entitled to his opinion. But he needs to back up his claims with proofs. And the article is seriously lacking in this regard.