The forged origins of the New Testament
- Thread starter darkbeaver
- Start date
I seem to recall a large body of Hebraic history called the Talmud and numerous tracts dealing with banking and philosophy and science right back to beyond Babylon and right up to the present.
I think maybe the very nice flick Spade provided indicates that you don't speak that language or think it but you must intuit the aspects of god with it. I'll watch the other half of the lecture tomorrow. Nevertheless it's interesting stuff, but dangerous in that the known result of the debate will lead to virtual bloodshed. :smile:
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That subject is the origin of the Gospels.
Putting it 100's of years later than first possible moment would sure get a rise out of some Christians because they swear it all passed by about 100AD. lol I fail to see how the history listed below could ever come to mean that there were no writings before that time in question 300+AD
(from a previous link)
"The general rules to be included in the later canons were:
- It had to be written or sponsored by an apostle.
- It had to have orthodox content.
- It had to be publically used by a prominent church or a majority of churches.
Muratorian Canon (200AD)
Four Gospels
Acts
Pauls Letters: Romans, I & II Cor., Gal., Eph., Phil., Col. I & II Thess., I & II Tim., Titus, Philemon
James
I & II John
Jude
Revelation of John
Revelation of Peter
Wisdom of Solomin
for private study:
Shepherd of Hermas Origen's collection (250AD)
Four Gospels
Acts
Pauls Letters: Romans, I & II Cor., Gal., Eph., Phil., Col. I & II Thess., I & II Tim., Titus, Philemon
I Peter
I John
Revelation of John
disputed:
Hebrews
James
II Peter
II & III John
Jude
Shepherd of Hermas
Letter of Barnabas
Teaching of Twelve (Didache)
Gospel of the Hebrews
Eusebius's collection (300AD)
Four Gospels
Acts
Pauls Letters: Romans, I & II Cor., Gal., Eph., Phil., Col. I & II Thess., I & II Tim., Titus, Philemon
I Peter
I John
Revelation of John
disputed:
Hebrews
James
II Peter
II & III John
Jude
Purposely excluded: Shepherd of Hermas
Letter of Barnabas
Teaching of Twelve (Didache)
Gospel of the Hebrews
Revelation of Peter
Acts of Peter
Council of Carthage (400AD)
Four Gospels
Acts
Pauls Letters: Romans, I & II Cor., Gal., Eph., Phil., Col. I & II Thess., I & II Tim., Titus, Philemon
Hebrews
James
I & II Peter
I, II, & III John
Revelation of John
Would that also include which Gospel of John if in 350AD they had 350 copies all from various dates in that time-frame? How would they decide which of two minor variations was the correct one.
What would you call 'concrete proof'? One trumpet has 1/3 of mankind die in 1,110 days. If you use 6.66 billion that would be 20million killed each and every day for over 3 full years, would that be proof?
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MHZ the cataclysmic history of the earth produced miracles of every sort, species extermination has been repeated millions and millions of times, mankind was lucky and is only one organism under god/sparky and as such has absolutly no right or privilage even the thickness of a cigarrette papers difference from all other organisms. If your god won't allow my dear departed cat into heaven to see me what bloody good is he/she/it anyway?IMHO
why would The Blood and The Grail not be the truth? People certainly belive it and some experts debunk it. Much the same as the bible. Some believe it and some believe it's quaint fiction
I does seem rather ludicrous to put ones faith in some ink on paper. The bible was written by man in the same way that Tarzan was written by man. Take any book and with a good PR job you could make religion out of it. Just look at Scientology - written by a second rate Sci-fi author. What makes anybody think the authors of their "holy" books are any different - a good PR job on gullible minds.
All I would have to do is say my last book was inspired by god and i could start my own religion. As my friend said, "There is a seeker born every minute."
All I would have to do is say my last book was inspired by god and i could start my own religion. As my friend said, "There is a seeker born every minute."
Well your cat cannot enter Heaven because it does not know the difference between good and evil (officially). That does not eliminate a return to life after the start of the new earth. What good is eternal life and being in charge of living beings if they perish after only a few breaths? Scripture says God knows when a sparrow loses it's breath (returns to Him, the owner of that breath), being a God of life would mean He could have written the Bible in such a way as to allow for that possibility. That could also be pleasing to the 4 that stand around the Throne in Re:5. "After their kind' in Ge:1 could be referencing them. If a 'small one' (least important are the ones who come alive at Judgement Day) can become a great Nation then that would also mean having greats herds and such (as well as 'relatives). The more people that qualify for eternal life the faster the initial bloom. The more people there are the more 'ground needs tilling', the more ground the more living things are needed to occupy that new ground, after past life is living again the pace would slow to normal expansion of numbers. Vs:1-21 indicates lots of activity.
Isa:60:22:
A little one shall become a thousand,
and a small one a strong nation:
I the LORD will hasten it in his time.
Names that have been used in this earth (for places and things) can be used again in the new earth.
If camels can be restored then cats could also be, a well as sparrows, etc.
The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail only points to the near impenetratable mess of history. In that way it illuminates the preposterous. For me it was a look at management rather than anything else. Gods responsible for that mess, if in fact Jesus is acted as his agent for the earth franchise I believe he's a criminal and could in reality be brought up on a pile of charges. And should be.;-) haha
I agree but for slightly different faith based revelation. Resurrection is likely commonplace, it is a real complete event, I can grow another leg or lung a whole new me whenever I want to, soon as I get the prints and save up the BTUs.
Scientifically we already know about resurrection, we have for all of history. This guy you believe in read about it in an old Greek translation of an old Sumerian translation of an older Aryan translation originally from a Khemer translation which they got from a now extinct tribe in the jungle somewhere in southeast asia for a bag of nice marbles. I'm certain of it. I suppose you don't believe that? In the big picture it's as viable as your idea. Everybody assembles god according to input I guess. I think it's a mistake to lean on scripture especially when the man allegedly told you straight up that god is within. So what are you a believer in jesus or a believer in scripture?
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I'm quite sure all defects are corrected at the resurrection or shortly thereafter. After that your body never comes to be harmed so there is no need for 'repairs. If the ones in our Dominion are less fortunate we should have the ability to repair their bodies.
If you disbelieve in Jesus does that mean you believe the first to come up with the story was the factual event? Have any of those 'missing gods' ever claimed they would return to the land of the living? Horus only made it as far as the underworld which doesn't even sound like any journey at all. When killed you are in the underworld right then. Jesus wasn't even the first to do 'things' from the Bible's POV, a resurrection from death was even done once in the OT. What made Him unique is that He was the first to be taken to God after being brought back to life and Jesus was the only Prophet to do all things that had been done in the past by many Prophets and Priests.
Could you be right, certainly the concept of eat,drink for tomorrow we die is there. Does that mean we should regret not killing our way to the top today?
I kind of like how vivid the end-times are pictured, really quite detailed if the right verses are selected. In your big picture is the world running the way it should be (going only 1,000 years into the past)? If changes are needed how are those changes implemented? Try it with the end of poverty being the desired goal. Killing all the poor is not an option for this exercise.
That's what is puzzling, Christians have wildly different views on what the Bible actually says, even though most translations are quite similar. Can man write a book that cannot be understood in that everybody agrees on what is being said or does that fact make it divine?
These days prayer is out communication link, days will come where we can say "Oh, wow!" because of events that are happening in our physical world.
God takes care of both needs at some point.
Jas:2:16:
And one of you say unto them,
Depart in peace,
be ye warmed and filled;
notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body;
what doth it profit?
How do you separate Jesus and Scripture? The NT updates our current obligations and (potential) punishments, the OT has many prophecies that are not yet fulfilled.
that would be the difference between spirituality (individual and comes from within) and religion (man made and imposed upon others)
Who's to say that heaven is not made up of cats and dogs and WE can't get in....