More the Marry in Bountiful, BC

Spade

Ace Poster
Nov 18, 2008
12,822
49
48
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Aether Island
Section 293 of the Criminal Code of Canada

Polygamy

293. (1) Every one who

(a) practises or enters into or in any manner agrees or consents to practise or enter into

(i) any form of polygamy, or

(ii) any kind of conjugal union with more than one person at the same time,

whether or not it is by law recognized as a binding form of marriage, or

(b) celebrates, assists or is a party to a rite, ceremony, contract or consent that purports to sanction a relationship mentioned in subparagraph (a)(i) or (ii),

is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years.

Evidence in case of polygamy

(2) Where an accused is charged with an offence under this section, no averment or proof of the method by which the alleged relationship was entered into, agreed to or consented to is necessary in the indictment or on the trial of the accused, nor is it necessary on the trial to prove that the persons who are alleged to have entered into the relationship had or intended to have sexual intercourse.
R.S., c. C-34, s. 257.
 

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
5,160
27
48
Chillliwack, BC
I have absolutely no confidence that this case will go anywhere near a conviction. In fact i would be surprised if it was not dismissed. That's not to say it should not be prosecuted, but look at the context. 'Gay' marriage has turned the institution into an irrelevancy as a legal construct. It was already eroded prior to that, but that legislation turned it into a joke.

We have a Supreme Court and lesser court system which has turned the Charter of Rights and Freedoms into a tyranny of Moral Relativism and Radical Individualism. How can you possibly impose standards on such a keystone of our society in that atmoshphere. We have an incompetent Chief Justice of Canada, Bev McLachlin, who turned the nation's highest civilian award into an icon of division and decay, by awarding it as a political symbol to Canada's Doctor of Death, Henry Morgentaler.

Winston Blackwell and his cohorts are skumbags. They use religious extortion to force children into marriage for which they seek no civic credentials. They evict young men, with a one way bus ticket, from their community because they pose competition to their sexual designs on young women. It is a malignant situation but the courts and government no longer have the moral sense to do anything about it.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
63
Vancouver Island
Then your problem is with forced marriages and child marriages, not polygamy.

The problems you describe are not unique to polygamy and can happen in monogomous marriages just as easily.

You are confusing different issues.

Polygamy which involves consenting adults of free will should be legal.

Forced marriages or child marriages which can happen in monogomous or polygamous marriages are already illegal in Canada.

Yes, they are different issues, but the beginning of polygamy most times in
those camps is child molestation, as those children are forced into those
marriages which after a number of years seem like a happy polygamous
marriage, so the two go hand in hand, even though they are different
legal issues. I'm sure there are no records proving those marriages started
when the bride was about 14 or thereabouts, the documentation would
state otherwise. After that child has two or three children, and is about
20 or so, she would not want to change her situation, so then, do we refer
to that marriage as a happy one and a legal one?
The two different legal issues are 'one' problem, so, I feel comfortable talking
about the two together on this forum.
 

dirtylinder

get dirty
Apr 24, 2007
301
6
18
vancouver island
I lived very close to Bountiful and I know that they push laws all the time...they had 16 yr. olds driving logging trucks down steep roads which almost killed some hunters that I know...another good friend went to look at a horse they had advertised for sale....because they didn't think it worthy the animal was treated so bad, she bought it and threw the $ at the BIG Mr. Blackmore himself...she swore, kicked dirt at him, and headed home with the poor immaciated beast...he looks awesome now and is very happy! They think they can get away with animal cruelty, rape, and more! BLACKMORE'S are devils!
 

Socrates the Greek

I Remember them....
Apr 15, 2006
4,968
36
48
What this two jerks in Bountiful need is, to be behind bars for life and at the same time roommates in the same cage as big mean lifer and ruthless Black Leroy.... That will set karma right for these two jerks.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
7,933
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The outrage I'm seeing above relates to child marriage, child molestation, age of consent issues, sexual abuse, cruelty to animals and so on... everything but bigamy. If these people have committed these other crimes, then charge them with these crimes. Those other crimes are far more serious and straight forward.

But they have nothing to do with relationships between consenting adults.

If a man is married and has a mistress, is anyone breaking the law?

If a man and two women live together are they breaking the law?

If the two adult women are well aware of their situation and consenting, then why should someone be arrested? Now if people are upset about women's rights regarding polygamy, then why don't they care about the rights of a mistress? At least with legal polygamy, the "mistress" would have legal rights.

Polly stands outside the Merry Wives Cafe, a prearranged rendezvous point, nervously watching vehicles pull up. She is middle-aged, clear-eyed and maternal, with an easy smile.
She apologizes to a reporter for withholding her last name but says she cannot risk getting arrested. "I have children," she explains later, her eyes moist.

Polly leads the way to a nearby office. Three others are waiting there: her adult kids, each dressed in fashionable business attire.

The introductions begin:

• Lorine, 30, is not a birth daughter but insists that Polly is her mom. She has degrees in business management and English literature. She traveled the West on business before entering a polygamous marriage four years ago.

• Bethany, 21, a birth daughter, also is in a plural marriage. She has a community-college degree, works as an administrative assistant and runs a graphic-design business out of her home.

• Joseph, 19, who is Polly's birth son, graduated from high school two years ago and spent a year as a community volunteer before starting college. He is unmarried and not dating.

They decline to divulge details about their families, fearful that specific admissions may be used against them in a future purge of polygamists. But they are eager to challenge the popular notion that polygamous spouses are brainwashed, and they assail the history of anti-bigamy laws.

At a public forum days earlier, Polly says, Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff made it clear he would prosecute polygamists if he had enough money, manpower and jail space.

"This is targeted persecution based on a religious belief," Lorine says angrily. "We're fighting for the right to decriminalize our lifestyle and legalize it."

Polly and her children belong to The Work of Jesus Christ, a group that rejects child marriages and embraces the modern world.
At 41, Polly has nine birth children and is a teacher at the local school, with a bachelor's degree in business and a master's degree in education.

She shakes her head at the depictions of her as a dupe or cultist. "I have these beautiful children and this wonderful family, and I try to figure out what I'm doing wrong," she says. "I'm completely baffled that someone would look at me and say, 'You know what? You're ignorant.'

"With the help of my spiritual leaders, I chose the man I was going to marry," she says. "I hate to call myself a women's libber because it has so many negative connotations. But in a lot of aspects the way we live is a woman's dream. . . . It's about being the woman that you know you can be." As an example, she said while working toward her degree and in a career, other mothers in her household helped look after her children and take care of housekeeping.

The dream comes with complications. To maintain secrecy, wives must be careful how they identify themselves. They avoid shopping together or socializing with the husband's business associates. Children learn not to refer to their father as Dad or their step-siblings as brother and sister.

Lorine says she was so fearful of prejudice while attending the University of Southern Utah that she never disclosed her background to friends or classmates, and she turned down all dates.
After graduation, she got into business, traveling throughout the West and continued that career after marriage. This year, she settled into domestic life with birth children and the rest of her family.

"I'm a plural wife. I chose this lifestyle with my eyes open," she says. "And I would fight for the right of my daughter to choose it. . . . I was raised in a culture of love."

While plural marriage is a tenet of her faith, Polly insists it also creates a stable family structure. She waves off questions about what happens to men who cannot find wives and rejects the idea that anti-bigamy laws were adopted for the public good.

Rather, Polly says, legislation outlawing polygamy constitutes an attack on one religious practice by a "moral majority" from other faiths.

The family members complain of bigotry and hypocrisy in a nation that treats adultery and divorce as routine yet is repulsed by plural marriages.

"America is about polygamy," Polly says. "It's just that they want to do it one person at a time - serial polygamists. We see marriage differently . . . something that will last forever."

Family Defends Polygamy | Polygamy - 4thefamily.us

Yes I have a problem with the above. These people are persecuted by bigots who want to impose their version of morality on them, when they are intelligent consenting adults who voluntarily choose this lifestyle by their own free will. These people are being discriminated against and I defend the right of consenting adults to freely define themselves and live their life the way they want without fear of persecution from ignorant intolerant people.
 

bobnoorduyn

Council Member
Nov 26, 2008
2,262
28
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Mountain Veiw County
Yes I have a problem with the above. These people are persecuted by bigots who want to impose their version of morality on them, when they are intelligent consenting adults who voluntarily choose this lifestyle by their own free will. These people are being discriminated against and I defend the right of consenting adults to freely define themselves and live their life the way they want without fear of persecution from ignorant intolerant people.

What consenting adults do in the privacy of the home is no business of mine, but by trying to legitimize an action publicly and/or legally makes it our business. Are these people not also trying to impose their version of morality on society? The "if it feels good do it" mentality has been the cause of moral decay over the past number of decades and people will go to great lengths to defend their actions, and resort to name calling, or even the courts, when anyone disagrees. The institution of marriage has been re-defined and rendered a joke. How long before a brother marries a sister?

Sure they voluntarily chose this lifestyle, anyone who has ever tried to de-program someone brainwashed by a cult will tell you that it is a nearly impossible task. They choose what is familiar and comfortable; this is a normal human trait, (it can also be called the Stockholm Syndrome). If they have known nothing different of course they will choose it, even after being out in the real world.

The excuse that adultery and divorce is accepted is baseless; it is this moral decay that has de-sensitized society to it. Adultery is a leading cause of divorce, and at one time was a legitimate grounds for divorce. Now there is no need of any grounds, in this country at least. Divorce is hardly accepted as normal by anyone going through it, (except in Hollyweird, but that's not the real world anyway). And adultery is absolutely devastating to the person cheated on. That it is not illegal doesn't make it right or moral, or even acceptible by society at large.

Some cultures support honour killings, it may even be their religious belief. To them it is acceptable, moral, even justified; does that make it right? At what point do we put the brakes on age old customs that don’t conform to our society’s ideals? Or do we just allow these customs to permeate society unabated?

Many species allow only the alpha male to mate with the females at the exclusion of all others. It is our morality, among other things, that separates us from the animal kingdom. There are times when collective rights do trump individual rights, especially when these individual rights involve an entire community and new generations brought up in a culture that runs counter to accepted social mores.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
Good post Bobnoorduyn. You've pretty much nailed my opinions on several subjects. My parents, were they alive, would be disgusted with the goings on in Bountiful. Just the idea of a fifty year old child molester with 80 wives still disgusts me. I think there may be a good argument for plowing that damn town under and starting over.
 

WeeLeprechaun

Time Out
Jan 9, 2009
46
0
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\live and let live. Their choice. Ever been to Bountiful. They are happy people content with their lives.
 

WeeLeprechaun

Time Out
Jan 9, 2009
46
0
6
80 wives, a bit of an exaseration I would say. And it is a beautiful town. Maybe someone should plow your town.
 

missile

House Member
Dec 1, 2004
4,846
17
38
Saint John N.B.
Why any person in their right mind would want more than one wife is beyond me, but as long as they aren't hurting anyone...why not?
 

shadowshiv

Dark Overlord
May 29, 2007
17,545
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While bigamy and child molestation can usually be differentiated, they are intertwined in this particular case. This is a disturbing case due to that.
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
27,780
285
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bliss
While bigamy and child molestation can usually be differentiated, they are intertwined in this particular case. This is a disturbing case due to that.

The only reason they're 'intertwined' is because the goverment has made the abuse legal, while the polygamy is not. Yet, which one are people more outraged by, honestly?

Marriage among consenting adults has been upheld by Canadian courts to be an issue for those consenting adults to figure out, and if this goes to trial, it still will be upheld. All the while, the main problem, the main outrage, remains perfectly legal, and something they can't be charged for. Get those kids out of there. Stop focusing your attention where it does not good, and force a change in the law to get those girls out.
 

WeeLeprechaun

Time Out
Jan 9, 2009
46
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Not all members of this "church" have multiple marriages. And I agree with the common sense of live and let live. No need to let the man hate emotions to rule common sense.
I have to ask Karrie do you know anything about this town or the people that live there. I do, and they are quite content to live their lives as they see fit. We (or better put our past hitler liberal government who make choices for the people without our input) allow SS "people" to marry, or shall I say perverts.
 

WeeLeprechaun

Time Out
Jan 9, 2009
46
0
6
I agree, one nag is enough, ha ha. But I must say, same goes for me, who would want more than one man, at least on a daily basis, as they can be a pain also on a daily basis.
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
27,780
285
83
bliss
I have to ask Karrie do you know anything about this town or the people that live there. I do, and they are quite content to live their lives as they see fit. We (or better put our past hitler liberal government who make choices for the people without our input) allow SS "people" to marry, or shall I say perverts.

This particular town? No. Mormons who practice multiple marriage covertly, yes. Men who marry 14 yr old girls who are brain washed by religion and elder wives? No. Thank God. And no, as I pointed out in a negative rep I will gladly claim, as someone defending the marriage of teenage girls who don't know better, you shall not call homosexuals perverts. It rings hollow in the face of your defense of such abuses of religion.
 

Tyr

Council Member
Nov 27, 2008
2,152
14
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Sitting at my laptop
I have to ask Karrie do you know anything about this town or the people that live there. I do, and they are quite content to live their lives as they see fit.

Is that why the wives keep running away?

We (or better put our past hitler liberal government who make choices for the people without our input) allow SS "people" to marry, or shall I say perverts.



You need help

I guess molestion of children is preferable to you than SS marriages..