No Praxius it's no joke.
I read Snowman's post line by line.
He took it to you on a personal level at least twice.
Twice, maybe three times and I accept that was too
much.
His post would have been better if he had not.
Indeed it would have, and if the personal levels were not attempted to be reached, my response wouldn't have been made the way it was. He acted like a troll, his responses and comments were trollish, thus he was treated like one with equal responses.
However most of his points can be validly argued.
I imagine they could be argued in a valid way, if this was the topic to do it in. If he wants to discuss all that trivial poop flinging, as I already stated, he can take it to the cage and I will be more then willing to entertain his comments.
You fail to rebut them with valid responses.
Not only did I (regardless of what you think) I actually don't have to rebut them with anything because they don't relate to the topic at hand. I'm willing to venture off the beaten path in a discussion for a post or two, but considering the level of ignorance and incompetence of relating his comments to the topic with he already attempted to hi-jack with his all mighty GI Joe garbage, I don't have to give him or you jack-sh*t.....
the topic is about Canada and our government, not the US.
I respect his viewpoint.
And as a resident Canadian, he took a few shots, by default at me.
So what.
The issue I have is with your style of debate.
Deal with it.... you give sh*t posts, you get sh*t posts back..... don't like it? Change your ways.... and I will follow suit.
You seem to do it quite regularly.
What? Speak my mind?
Darn....
You line by line break the other person's post up.
And then line by line personally insult them.
Perhaps you should learn how to read a bit better so you can understand what's really going on.
^ Sorry do you think that's a personal insult as well? It wasn't.... it was a suggestion.
And I only insult someone when they decide to insult me first, and then I leave it at that. But of course, you haven't been around long enough yet to notice this pattern so I understand your confusion.
You seem to think personally insulting people is a valid and informed debating style.
Nope, never said it was, which is why after I was done finishing what he started, I requested the topic get back on track.
If you don't like bitch fests in debates, then don't create one, and there won't be a problem.
Whe someone just assumes to know who I am, what my backgrounds are, what I believe and my ethnic background/herritage and then spews a bunch of ignorant trash all over it, I won't be taking it lying down, just as I wouldn't expect anybody else to either.
I find it comical that you think he's all justified in spewing his load of trollish crap, but as soon as someone actually stands up to it and tells them how it is.... oh no..... you have a problem with that.
Too bad.
Just because someone comes from, or lives in another country does not make their personal opinion any more or less valid than yours.
It does when it is ignorantly wrong as I have pointed out numerous times..... .it's called reality. When he is wrong about one or 6 of his assumptions, it makes it less valid.
When I am wrong, I will accept it, which I have done numerous times in the past. And I can even do this without getting hateful too, as hard as that is to imagine. But when someone decides to drop the quality of the conversation to flinging sh*t just because they don't like an honest opinion, don't expect it to stay at a high quality of debate.
As you can see, you and I, although we both disagree on a few things, have yet to throw personal insults at one another..... it's not hard to do, but some just don't want to do it.
Just because some one votes for a differing political party than yours does not make their points more or less valid than yours.
Good to know.... when did I ever say this? By all means, point it out.
I have already stated numerous times in the last few days that if people want to support Harper, or Dion, or Obama or McCain, or the Milk Man down the road, go right ahead..... everybody get's an opinion and a right to express it..... just as you are expressing how you feel about my posting.
But I have no issues in explaining why I feel some people either misunderstood something, or perhaps they didn't get all the information for the situation to make a decent and educated response. I do this from time to time as well and when new information comes accross, I tend to change and/or correct my ways.
I am not in any way trying to be insulting, simply pointing out that you actually seem to believe that people who's opinions differ from yours are not, for some strange reason, as valid as yours.
I know you are not insulting me, or else, as I said, this conversation would have dropped a few levels in kindness. But one thing I do believe you have incorrect when it comes to me, is that I don't believe other people's opinions that differ from mine are less valid..... as I don't remember ever saying that.
But that doesn't mean I won't challenge those opinions in order to not just understand, but to make sure they are sound, based on all available facts and information...... that's called a debate. But if someone is going to go on the attack and jump into assumptions just to troll, they will be treated as such.
If his post was in a better tone, then of course my responses would have been much different. They wern't, so mine wern't..... simple as that.
When I get the attitude that my opinion is crap, trivial or stupid, then they get it in the exact same fashion, sometimes worse..... don't start something and there's nothing to worry about.
Requiring personal slur's or insults in my opinion shows a lack of intellectual options
Once again, re-check and see where it all started. When someone starts assuming something about my personal background, my personal heritage, or my personal religious beliefs.... then it becomes personal, thus they will get Personal Slurs and insults coming right back.
Don't start something and there's nothing to worry about.
Next up is the " I don't give a sh*t what you think" statement.
It's flawed.
You should care.
Everyone is entitled to their views and opinions.
I don't care, because at the end of the day, the majority of comments, including my own, have no relation or effect on my life..... if there is no effect, then why should I care?
Afterall, they're all equal opinions from other individuals such as myself..... if I started to actually care what people say on here and took it all to heart and left it in my head for days on end..... then I'd have to go get some mental help now wouldn't I?
That is what I mean when I really don't care..... it means you and everybody else can say what you want, think what you want, do what you want..... so long as it has no effect on my life and how I live it, then you can do whatever you want and I really don't care.....
.... just as you shouldn't really care about what I say and what my opinion is if it has no reall change on your life after you walk away from the screen.
I will still be me, and you will still be you.
If you are afraid to listen to other people's opinions and viewpoints then you are hiding.
Sounds like you may have misunderstood my not caring comments.
Hiding from a huge world full of idea's and opinions.
Yeah, you really don't know me, lol.
And that is a little bit sad.
It would be if it were true. And if it were really true, then I wouldn't be responding to you right now, now would I?
If it were really true, I'd be spewing all kinds of crap your way and swinging axes all over the place like a Viking.
You have kept the conversation as about as civil as one could really expect considering the situation, and thus, I return the courtesy..... that's how I live..... when people give respect, respect is given back.... when people start crapping all over you, it's going to come right back.
Nothing more, nothing less.
If you only want to hear from people who slavishly agree with you, well my son, you are stuck in a small box.
Once again, if that were true, you would be correct and I would agree with you.
But just because I disagree with someone's assumptions (Their wild guesses just as you are right now) doesn't mean I block out everybody and shut out opposing views.....
if you are wrong about me or my background, just as snowman has been, I will point it out and state that you or anybody else is wrong...... afterall, I would think I know me best.... I would think I know what I have done in my past, who my parents are, what my contributions have been...... I would know all of this much better then you or Snow.
And you would be in your right to rip the shat out of me if I started assuming your background..... you know yourself best, just as I know myself best.
I am not going to sit there and allow someone to spread BS lies about who I truly am, because they can't accept my opinions.
The problem here is that you have no problem pardoning Snow's blaitent and ignorant comments towards me.... but in hypocracy, you give me crap for giving it right back to him in the exact same fashion for him to understand.
You explained your issues with me, and now I just explained my issues with you...... once again, in an equal fashion.
One thing I have noticed about you thus far, since we're on the topic.... is that every since I have disagreed with you on a couple of occasions, you have a tendancy of siding with anybody who argues or decides to make some kind of attack, regardless of their level of maturity..... you then put them up on some pedistal like some hero, and then decide to put your two cents on just how evil a person I am.
Just an observation, but by all means, feel free to correct me.
Next is the f**k this, f**k you style of debate.
Lots of folks do it.
It's weak, it shows lack of critical thinking and it's basically lame.
Haven't gotten to that point yet.... I have been running around in many different forums for over a decade now.... I am fully aware of all the ins and outs of how a debate can go down hill and the mentality of many members, including my own.
I am not ignorant on how it can degress, which is why after my one and only response to his comments was the end of it, as I stated I am not going to continue to entertain that level of childishness...... once is enough and if the point can not catch on, then they will be on their own trying to figure it out, because I will not be a part of it.
Keep the conversation civil and I will be civil..... just as it is now.
You may think it is an argument winner, but hey, lets face it smart folks know otherwise.
There you go with assumptions again.
Third up is the "your a troll", we all know what a troll is, Praxius, and that wasn't it.
Everyone knows it too.
Really?
Let me look it up for you:
"An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion."
Troll (Internet) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Now... what is a troll again?
The scorched earth style of debate where you call the opposition a troll, racist, a bigot, a traitor, brainwashed and so forth and so on demands a high level of proof.
If you don't provide it , then you are desperately clutching at straws.
See above for the proof you requested.
It may seem like I am picking on you.
I am.
I could not be bothered to go after some of your other posts so I chose this one.
Of course, as I already predicted above, but thank you for confirming my assumptions.
The issue at hand is that as new guy here I have noticed a few people line by line invalidate other peoples idea's.
I don't line by line invalidate, I line by line respond. Some things I agree with, and some things I don't. This is how I post and respond to other people to make sure I at least try to address all comments of views directed my way..... whether they are positive or negitive.
Feel free to post however way you wish, but this is how I post and respond..... and when I say deal with it, I mean it as deal with it as I do.... I have plenty I don't like that some do, but I put up with it and I deal with it.
And then gather round and congratulate each other on their skill in personally insulting others.
Maybe you should look at who usually starts the personal insults.... just because you and a few others are new members, that does not give you a green light to shoot the crap at everybody else and then cry foul when it comes back at you.
There are plenty of other members here who have been here longer then I, and I don't agree with much of what they say, and they don't agree with much of what I say.... but we can at least keep the conversation respectible.
See most posts between Colpy and I..... we disagree on a lot of things and it can get heated, but we don't throw insults at one another.
But then a new member comes in and thinks they can get away with whatever they want, or that they should be treated differently.
I never was, so why should you or anybody else?
It may sound like sour grapes, however make no mistake I need no one to validate my posts.
See.... same thing as me saying "I don't care"
So I thought I would arbitrarily agree with another new poster.
One who's posts disagree from the howling pack.
Sue me.
Trex
Sue me.... see now you're getting it..... no different then my Deal with it.
We'll get along just fine.
