Democracy-reforming the Canadian system

[pegger]

OK - here's my thoughts..

1) HoC - strict Rep. By Pop. - seats allocated on a % basis of population per province.
2 rounds to every vote. Day 1 - FPTF - day 2 (perhaps 1 weeks later?) - the top 2 candidates only on the writ. 50%+1 needed to win.

1) b) PM elected in HoC by a formal vote. The "assumption" that the leader of the party is PM must end.

2) Senate - 10 senators per province. 5 each for the territories. Senators selected by the Day 1 vote above (that is Prop. Rep. in the Senate) - again by provincial results. Actual person to be senator can be appointed by party. Senators cannot serve in cabinet or HoC.

3) Governer General - Also an elected position - No party affiliations allowed - elected at same time as parliament. FPTP is fine - position is the "check" to parliament - able to recall parliament at any time (In european democracries, it would be the same position as President) - not able to introduce legislation, veto bills, etc.. only power to represent Canada on world stage, prorogue, recall or dissolve parliament. 2 Term limit.

Just off the cuff...

 

[Tyr]

OK - here's my thoughts..

1) HoC - strict Rep. By Pop. - seats allocated on a % basis of population per province.
2 rounds to every vote. Day 1 - FPTF - day 2 (perhaps 1 weeks later?) - the top 2 candidates only on the writ. 50%+1 needed to win.

1) b) PM elected in HoC by a formal vote. The "assumption" that the leader of the party is PM must end.

2) Senate - 10 senators per province. 5 each for the territories. Senators selected by the Day 1 vote above (that is Prop. Rep. in the Senate) - again by provincial results. Actual person to be senator can be appointed by party. Senators cannot serve in cabinet or HoC.

3) Governer General - Also an elected position - No party affiliations allowed - elected at same time as parliament. FPTP is fine - position is the "check" to parliament - able to recall parliament at any time (In european democracries, it would be the same position as President) - not able to introduce legislation, veto bills, etc.. only power to represent Canada on world stage, prorogue, recall or dissolve parliament. 2 Term limit.

Just off the cuff...

Not bad pegger. I'm all for Representation by population.

1b is also a good move

2. Everything is still good EXCEPT for the 10 senators per province. IT should again be based on population.

3. Still good

I would add two more

A) Split Ontario into two provinces. Draw a line from Scarborough to Barrie to Georgian Bay. Call it Ontario east and Ontario West

B) Split Quebec into two provinces. Montreal and the St. Lawrence south shore being one and the rest of Quebec being another

That would allow the smaller provinces to be closer to being on par with the two mega provinces if they are split. Hence Alberta, BC, etc. would get a greater say in the senate/parliment and hoefully alleviate their constant whining

 

[Scott Free]

:angryfire::angryfire:


:angryfire::angryfire::angryfire::angryfire: STAY ON TOPIC:angryfire::angryfire::angryfire::angryfire:

lol

If I did that would be a first ;-)

 

[Tyr]

Could be.
But I don't think so.
Seemed more like another dissenter who vented and then got the usual "your opinions are totally invalid because I disagree" spiel.

Maybe he will gird his loins and return to the fray.

If not he must have been a GB fartcatching, capitalist lackey, troll.
One thing is for sure if he can't handle personal attacks he will fare poorly here.

Anyone seen Avro?

Trex

He got cut up and dumped in Lake Ontario. Wait.... that was the plane.

so. Nope

 

[pegger]

Not bad pegger. I'm all for Representation by population.

1b is also a good move

2. Everything is still good EXCEPT for the 10 senators per province. IT should again be based on population.

3. Still good

I would add two more

A) Split Ontario into two provinces. Draw a line from Scarborough to Barrie to Georgian Bay. Call it Ontario east and Ontario West

B) Split Quebec into two provinces. Montreal and the St. Lawrence south shore being one and the rest of Quebec being another

That would allow the smaller provinces to be closer to being on par with the two mega provinces if they are split. Hence Alberta, BC, etc. would get a greater say in the senate/parliment and hoefully alleviate their constant whining

The problem with having both houses as Rep by Pop is that Ontario will be "over represented" in both houses.

As the Senate is a "chamber for sober, second thought" - and it can't introduce legislation, only review and grant assent, or send back to the house, I think having a house that gives equality to all provinces a good compromise. It wuold be similar to the US House of Represenative (I think) - where each state has an equal say.

In terms of provinces - My opinion is Sask/Manitoba should be consolidated into 1 province - Ontario split into 3 - Toronto, South Western Ontario, Norther Ontario, the Maritimes into 2 - PEI, NB and NS into 1 province - Newfoundland as 1. I would agree with B as well. The only other possible change is Vancouver Island and the BC Mainland becoming 2 provinces as well.

 

[Tyr]

The problem with having both houses as Rep by Pop is that Ontario will be "over represented" in both houses.

As the Senate is a "chamber for sober, second thought" - and it can't introduce legislation, only review and grant assent, or send back to the house, I think having a house that gives equality to all provinces a good compromise. It wuold be similar to the US House of Represenative (I think) - where each state has an equal say.

In terms of provinces - My opinion is Sask/Manitoba should be consolidated into 1 province - Ontario split into 3 - Toronto, South Western Ontario, Norther Ontario, the Maritimes into 2 - PEI, NB and NS into 1 province - Newfoundland as 1. I would agree with B as well. The only other possible change is Vancouver Island and the BC Mainland becoming 2 provinces as well.

Hmmm. Maybe. Seperate Ottawa out and make it "The National Capital Region", much like Brasillia or Canberra. Make GTA one province and the rst of Ontario a province makes more demographic sense. Northern Ontario really doesn't have the population base to go it alone.

I'll go for the Sask/Man join and also the Martimes consolidation.

Vancouver island can't go it alone

Possibly split Alberta into Calgary and southern environs and Northern makes sense.

Sorry, still no to the go for the senate representation.

With the split in provinces (see above) You would have ~ 6-7 "areas" of equal or near equal representation

As it stands now, Ontario is not overrepresented. It follows along the lines of proportional representatio.

You have to remember that Ontario has ~40% of the countries population, so I can see where you would feel that they are "overrepresented"

 

[pegger]

Hmmm. Maybe. Seperate Ottawa out and make it "The National Capital Region", much like Brasillia or Canberra. Make GTA one province and the rst of Ontario a province makes more demographic sense. Northern Ontario really doesn't have the population base to go it alone.

I'll go for the Sask/Man join and also the Martimes consolidation.

Vancouver island can't go it alone

Possibly split Alberta into Calgary and southern environs and Northern makes sense.

Sorry, still no to the go for the senate representation.

With the split in provinces (see above) You would have ~ 6-7 "areas" of equal or near equal representation

As it stands now, Ontario is not overrepresented. It follows along the lines of proportional representatio.

You have to remember that Ontario has ~40% of the countries population, so I can see where you would feel that they are "overrepresented"

You see - I grew up in Winnipeg - moved to Alberta when I was 25 - and now live in South Western Ontario.

I agree, that as it stand now, Ontario is under-represented. I find it insulting that my vote is worth less than a vote from Alberta.

I also believe that most of the complaints from Western Canada are myopic, and really stem from a deep resentment of the fact that the majority of people live in Ontario.

However, I also feel that the West has some legitimate complaints - the main one being that in a Dominion (as Canada is) all provinces should be equal. However, we must temper that with Ontario is the most populous province.

Heck, more people live in the "golden horseshoe" that Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba COMBINED.

In any event, my main point is that Canada has existed for 141 years - and over the 141 years, the country has changed dramatically, however our political system has not.

What this country needs is real leadership - to make these changes, to forge forward for the best of this country. Instead we have 3 yahoos (Harper, Dion and Layton). The fact that the most honest, upright and forthright politician that we have is Duceppe (a "separatist") is not only ironic, but SHOULD be insulting to "federalists."

Oh well- that's another rant, for another day.

My point with having 2 houses that are both rep. by pop. is what's the point? Either have one that is rep. by pop, and one that is rep. by prov. OR have 1 house that is rep. by pop., and then have another body be the check and balance to the HoC - perhaps the GG - or perhaps the judicary. In one way, if it is the HoC (and the HoC is rep. by pop.) it would put more pressure on the HoC to get it right the first time...

Oh - and we need some way to recall MPs....

 

[pegger]

True - but to be honest, the past week only had me add 1 b) and 3.

I've felt that our parliament has been broken for a while.

 

[Tyr]

You see - I grew up in Winnipeg - moved to Alberta when I was 25 - and now live in South Western Ontario.

I agree, that as it stand now, Ontario is under-represented. I find it insulting that my vote is worth less than a vote from Alberta.

I also believe that most of the complaints from Western Canada are myopic, and really stem from a deep resentment of the fact that the majority of people live in Ontario.

However, I also feel that the West has some legitimate complaints - the main one being that in a Dominion (as Canada is) all provinces should be equal. However, we must temper that with Ontario is the most populous province.

Heck, more people live in the "golden horseshoe" that Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba COMBINED.

In any event, my main point is that Canada has existed for 141 years - and over the 141 years, the country has changed dramatically, however our political system has not.

What this country needs is real leadership - to make these changes, to forge forward for the best of this country. Instead we have 3 yahoos (Harper, Dion and Layton). The fact that the most honest, upright and forthright politician that we have is Duceppe (a "separatist") is not only ironic, but SHOULD be insulting to "federalists."

Oh well- that's another rant, for another day.

My point with having 2 houses that are both rep. by pop. is what's the point? Either have one that is rep. by pop, and one that is rep. by prov. OR have 1 house that is rep. by pop., and then have another body be the check and balance to the HoC - perhaps the GG - or perhaps the judicary. In one way, if it is the HoC (and the HoC is rep. by pop.) it would put more pressure on the HoC to get it right the first time...

Oh - and we need some way to recall MPs....

Hmmm.

I grew up in eastern Ontario, have lived in Ottawa, Calgary, Montreal, Vancouver, Toronto and Halifax and the perceptions in each region are radically different as regards to what gov't "should be"

I'm glad you do recognize this fact that we have 3 yahoos (Harper, Dion and Layton). The fact that the most honest, upright and forthright politician that we have is Duceppe (a "separatist") is not only ironic, but SHOULD be insulting to "federalists."

Most people tend to forget who is actually the better leader

 

[GreenFish66]

Good thread inteligento..I had a huge message but accidentally erased it all!..Maybe for the better..!lol..The system must grow with the country...I am an independent, who for years, voted green. I was a green party member. Helped me learn the practical.So I could work on the theories.lol.. .I like to vote for the person or people, I believe can lead Canadians, and Canada positively forward!...

History is important..Are you British?..American?..A socialist, or french ..Canada has it all!..My ma is Scottish...My dad is american..Me , I consider myself 100% Canadian.I was born here.It is the only system I have ever lived in!...I want what is best for our Canadian family ..I try to do my part as, 1 Canadian livng in this huge and diverse country!...

With the internet and technology, we now have the ability to make a more educated decision, when deciding who to vote for..As well as on many other issues..!..I f we use this new I.T along with P.R. we can quite possibly have a real democracy .>Where we all have asay in our future...

But if you won't choose(Use) your voice ..all you'll hear is mine..!.lol

It is up to the leaders and the people ,whether they choose to listen and learn or not!!...Ol' ways must move forward, transform into new ways, into new minds!!..

When someone asks me who my favorite hockey team is,,,I always say.,Whatever team has the most of my favorite players on it.!..

Balance and sustainablity will help move us postively forward...Have a vision and reach for it .but it is far better to keep an open mind and learn from someone or something greater than yourself then to only learn from your mistakes!!...

More you know the more you realize you know nothing at all!..lol

Green/technology holds the golden key to all our hopes and dreams...I hope?..lol

lol..

Anyway...My last mesage was better..Oh well!..Hope there's a point on subject there somewhere..Hard to stop when I get going sometime..lol

I have to admit , inteligento , your Avatar freaks me a little...A few weeks ago I wrote off my car ,and a 6 or 7 point Buck , on one unforgetable day, in a freakish story of twisted irony...

Yet I still believe Green/technology can drive us positely forward!...Is this nieve??

lol

Thank-you for this space and your time

Over and out there from here

B.Greenfish66