Ottawa's '09 deficit may hit $14B

[SirJosephPorter]

I think most of us agree that we will have deficit. Will it be 3 to 4 billion? 14 billion? More? Who knows?

However, one thing is quite clear. Irrespective of what the conservatives are trying to convince us, any deficit that occurs is totally Harper’s fault. He is in charge, he has nobody else to blame.

Harper isn’t to blame for the economic meltdown that is occurring worldwide. However, as Paul Martin said a while ago, Harper should have realized that unforeseen events occur from time to time and he should have made allowances for that. Liberals had plenty of unforeseen crises to cope with, there was the 9/11 attack, dot com meltdown, 2001-2002 recession etc. Liberals kept running surplus thought-out all that, because of prudent fiscal management, and because they were astute enough to realize that unforeseen events do affect the economy and the government must be prepared for it.

However, since Harper came to power, he has spent money like a drunken sailor, he has spent money at a much higher rate than Liberals ever did. In addition, he gave tax cuts mainly to the rich (GST cut benefits the rich disproportionately). Due to increased spending and tax cuts, Harper frittered away all the surplus, for the past two years, he has been living from paycheck to paycheck. He even briefly ran a deficit this year (or last year), for a couple of months.

Well, we all know what happens to the family that lives from paycheck to paycheck, first unforeseen expense and they are in trouble. Same thing is happening to Harper. So far he has done a terrible job of managing the economy (increased spending, tax cuts, very little surplus). Now that something unforeseen has happened, there is nothing left but to whine about it and run a deficit.

We may be seeing another Mulroney in the making.

 

[Francis2004]

However, one thing is quite clear. Irrespective of what the conservatives are trying to convince us, any deficit that occurs is totally Harper’s fault. He is in charge, he has nobody else to blame.

Impossible, it was Pierre Elliot Trudeau's fault ( said sarcastically of course ).. :lol:

Harper isn’t to blame for the economic meltdown that is occurring worldwide. However, as Paul Martin said a while ago, Harper should have realized that unforeseen events occur from time to time and he should have made allowances for that. Liberals had plenty of unforeseen crises to cope with, there was the 9/11 attack, dot com meltdown, 2001-2002 recession etc. Liberals kept running surplus thought-out all that, because of prudent fiscal management, and because they were astute enough to realize that unforeseen events do affect the economy and the government must be prepared for it.

Impossible as there is no such event happening as a meltdown. It is a fiction of the Canadian population. Even today I heard our local Conservative MP talking about how our economy was doing oh so well.. We in Canada have no economic issues..

However, since Harper came to power, he has spent money like a drunken sailor, he has spent money at a much higher rate than Liberals ever did. In addition, he gave tax cuts mainly to the rich (GST cut benefits the rich disproportionately). Due to increased spending and tax cuts, Harper frittered away all the surplus, for the past two years, he has been living from paycheck to paycheck. He even briefly ran a deficit this year (or last year), for a couple of months.

That's our problem.. Stop sending all that money to our military so they don't drink that much.. Damn drunken sailors..

Well, we all know what happens to the family that lives from paycheck to paycheck, first unforeseen expense and they are in trouble. Same thing is happening to Harper. So far he has done a terrible job of managing the economy (increased spending, tax cuts, very little surplus). Now that something unforeseen has happened, there is nothing left but to whine about it and run a deficit.

Wow you know my situation as a family.. As for Steve I think he will just tap our pockets when times get tough..

We may be seeing another Mulroney in the making.

Isn't lying Brian one of Steve's top advisers ?

 

[Avro]

Ummmm....I don't remember Paul Martin being on the ballet the last time Canada rolled the
Federal voting dice a month ago. We could only choose from those that actually ran, & which
one of those would do the country the most good (or the least harm) in the next four years...

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.:roll:

I said like Paul Martin as in similar.....comprehend much.:lol:

 

[Avro]

Yep...the evil Conservatives, who single handedly put the worlds economy in the toilet.

Nope, just Canada's. Other cons screwed up the world economy

 

[Ron in Regina]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.:roll:

I said like Paul Martin as in similar.....comprehend much.:lol:

Avro, to take this beyond the realm of wishful thinking and to validate your statement,
and thus your complaint, which one of the candidates we had to choose from in this
last election was like Paul Martin, as in similar??? That was my point. Comprehend
much?

(P.S. Happy Birthday Avro!)

 

[NorthernSun]

Think of it like this. Maybe if Harper tried to diversify trade and send more materials, food, lumber, etc. to growing countries like China, India, etc. instead of sending them south to you know where we might have been able to avoid this or keep the affects down. We are better off then most people, but we are going to run a deficit and we are going to possibly slip into a recession and if we don't we will be at next to 0 growth for the next year or two. Besides, if you can't blame Harper then who's fault is it? It's not Wall Street banker's fault that our economy has slowed down now is it?

 

[Ron in Regina]

Think of it like this. Maybe if Harper tried to diversify trade and send more materials, food, lumber, etc. to growing countries like China, India, etc. instead of sending them south to you know where we might have been able to avoid this or keep the affects down. We are better off then most people, but we are going to run a deficit and we are going to possibly slip into a recession and if we don't we will be at next to 0 growth for the next year or two. Besides, if you can't blame Harper then who's fault is it? It's not Wall Street banker's fault that our economy has slowed down now is it?

NorthernSun...I think you're right on the money with respect to diversification of our export
partners....at least the percentages of who gets what percentages with the USA not being the
biggest basket for our eggs. The USA has been our only customer connected to us with a
common border, and with a population approximately ten times what our is, it was the easiest
customer we had. This situation can be blamed on geography as much as anything, and that
existed much longer than Harpers few years in the Hot Seat.

We have to diversify our trade partners in a big hurry now (a solution, not a blame game as
that alone corrects nothing) before we swirl around the bowl faster and faster before the
final flush. Fingers can be pointed and blame assigned once the solution is in place. The
"natural" governing party in Canada that has been in power longer than any other did
nothing about creating this situation of the USA receiving 80%+ of our exports either.
Right now in the middle of the flush....that doesn't matter. Lots of time to point fingers
while blaming each other once we're swimming to the top of the bowl.

 

[Avro]

Avro, to take this beyond the realm of wishful thinking and to validate your statement,
and thus your complaint, which one of the candidates we had to choose from in this
last election was like Paul Martin, as in similar??? That was my point. Comprehend
much?

(P.S. Happy Birthday Avro!)

Sigh.....:roll:

I said....now read slowly..."what we need is someone like Paul Martin" I never said he was on the ballot, I never said there was someone in politics currently like him I was merely making a comment to his ability to control the economy is the positive from the negative....currently there is nobody like that in any party that I can see. By merely saying Harper is the guy for the next few years dosen't make him the right guy either Ron the con.

It amazes me sometimes how some people just try to invent the story when they can't find one, either that or they are just plain dumb, which one are you Ron?:roll:

 

[Ron in Regina]

Sigh.....:roll:

I said....now read slowly..."what we need is someone like Paul Martin" I never said he was on the ballot, I never said there was someone in politics currently like him I was merely making a comment to his ability to control the economy is the positive from the negative....currently there is nobody like that in any party that I can see. By merely saying Harper is the guy for the next few years dosen't make him the right guy either Ron the con.

It amazes me sometimes how some people just try to invent the story when they can't find one, either that or they are just plain dumb, which one are you Ron?:roll:

Ahhhhh....I wasn't inventing a story Avro, I was asking a question to which
it seems you just aren't willing to answer. Oh well...That's sort of an answer
unto itself.

You where content with wishful thinking as an excuse to complain, and I was
asking about the reality of the options in the choice we just had...and thus the
phrasing of my question "to take this beyond the realm of wishful thinking and
to validate your statement, and thus your complaint, which one....etc..."

Feel free to read that at any speed you wish. You aren't willing to answer that?
Fine. I'm OK with that. I was looking for an answer, not a p*ssing match. That
I could find on any Religion Thread. I've pretty much had enough for one night
anyway. Some other time then I guess. Hope you enjoy the rest of your Birth
Day and have yourself a good night.

 

[Francis2004]

NorthernSun...I think you're right on the money with respect to diversification of our export
partners....at least the percentages of who gets what percentages with the USA not being the
biggest basket for our eggs. The USA has been our only customer connected to us with a
common border, and with a population approximately ten times what our is, it was the easiest
customer we had. This situation can be blamed on geography as much as anything, and that
existed much longer than Harpers few years in the Hot Seat.

We have to diversify our trade partners in a big hurry now (a solution, not a blame game as
that alone corrects nothing) before we swirl around the bowl faster and faster before the
final flush. Fingers can be pointed and blame assigned once the solution is in place. The
"natural" governing party in Canada that has been in power longer than any other did
nothing about creating this situation of the USA receiving 80%+ of our exports either.
Right now in the middle of the flush....that doesn't matter. Lots of time to point fingers
while blaming each other once we're swimming to the top of the bowl.

The big Push came with Chretien who went to China and Europe with business leaders and made little advancements long ago..

China's big problem are Import duties that the Government refuses to remove. Add to that transfer taxes and the cost of bringing our product overseas. I think we are maxing out what we already send to China because what they take from us is what they absolutely require and cannot get closer to home..

Europe looks at the "green" foot print more and more.. Europe has also close the door to Canada with the European Union ( or European Community ) leaving little market space for Canadian exports..

Hence our fall back partner the US.

This does not mean I do not agree with you as I would love for us to develop new markets, but most people have

1) never dealt with Asia and how they do business
2) never done business in Europe and understood the Market there either
3) little of Europe and Asia care to deal in the way North America does business and wants to do business their way.


On a internal Company basis this is what is usually faced..
4 years ago I worked for a High Tech company that was global ( all continents ) and our biggest downfall was communications and the refusal of each continent to want to execute as I explained above. Asia would hide our transfer business from North America as if it was theirs and only grasp the big dollar items claiming it was their work, while Europe was always lost in the bureaucracy of endless documentation refusal and approval denials that never ended. Of course the Language problem was alway the cause for computer integration refusal on all continents, which made tracking impossible..

Hence there is no will to cooperate..

 

[Francis2004]

Sigh.....:roll:

I said....now read slowly..."what we need is someone like Paul Martin" I never said he was on the ballot, I never said there was someone in politics currently like him I was merely making a comment to his ability to control the economy is the positive from the negative....currently there is nobody like that in any party that I can see. By merely saying Harper is the guy for the next few years dosen't make him the right guy either Ron the con.

It amazes me sometimes how some people just try to invent the story when they can't find one, either that or they are just plain dumb, which one are you Ron?:roll:

If Frank McKenna had run for Leadership of the Liberals he would have made a good candidate for that position of driving the country to the centre right of Paul Martin economic policies. But you cannot force a man to run.. Being Centre right on economic policy I would much rather this approach..

Frank McKenna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


And as you state at this time I see no real leader in this category and our budget heading for fiscal irresponsibility..

One can only hope the present course will not drive us into the same situation as the Mulroney years..

The worldwide recession of the early 1990s significantly damaged the government's financial situation. Mulroney's inability to improve the government's finances, as well as his use of tax increases to deal with it, were major factors in alienating the western conservative portion of his power base. At the same time, the Bank of Canada began to raise interest rates in order to meet a zero inflation target; the experiment was regarded as a failure that exacerbated the effect of the recession in Canada. Annual budget deficits ballooned to record levels, reaching $42 billion in his last year of office. These deficits grew the national debt dangerous close to the psychological benchmark of 100% of GDP, further weakening the Canadian dollar and damaging Canada's international credit rating.

Brian Mulroney - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


One can only hope for no repeat..

PS Hope you had a Happy Birthday Avro...

 

[NorthernSun]

Everyone has failed to mention the fact that we could send more goods to Mexico and Brazil which are two growing countries with, I am guessing, minimal import laws. Mexico is in NAFTA so we could send our goods there without duty and fees and we could make a trade agreement with Brazil if we tried to send them timber so they don't have to cut down all the rain forests.

 

[scratch]

So are you suggesting something akin to the NAU (North American Union) but larger like perhaps the WHA (Western Hemisphere Alliance) or WHU (Western Hemisphere Union)?

 

[mt_pockets1000]

Harper should have had the smarts to see this coming. With the Cons at the helm I expect the deficit to be much higher...perhaps as high as $50B.

Today Canada signed a free trade agreement with Columbia. We get coffee, bananas and Shakira...they get beef, pork, potatoes and Celine Dion. Our country is also in negotiations with Peru for free trade with that country. That's a market of about 70 million willing to buy our goods and services. When people ask "what are we doing to wean ourselves off our dependency on U.S. trade"...well look no further. We are making it happen. I tip my hat to Harper on this one. Keep shopping the world and plugging our country every step of the way. We have the resources, let's maximize the potential.

 

[scratch]

About time PO & Co. starting acting in the interest of Canada.

 

[Walter]

Harper should have had the smarts to see this coming. With the Cons at the helm I expect the deficit to be much higher...perhaps as high as $50B./quote]
I think it will be 200 billion.

 

[scratch]

Walter,

With Harpo, you never know what stupid thing that he is going to do next.

rgs

 

[NorthernSun]

So are you suggesting something akin to the NAU (North American Union) but larger like perhaps the WHA (Western Hemisphere Alliance) or WHU (Western Hemisphere Union)?

Basically. It would help South and North American companies a lot.

 

[scratch]

Have you a plan? Is this plan impervious to be tampered with?

 

[NorthernSun]

Well. Here is my very straightforward plan:

1. Establish an agreement with all North and South American countries to reduce/eliminate duties and other fees on exports/imports from each other

2. Enjoy the benefits.