Does God exist?
- Thread starter Kreskin
- Start date
Leaves are soft, there are lots of rocks that have saved their shape.
So at that rate, how long will it be until the Rockies are the size of the Laurentian Mountains are today?
Streams and rivers would also apply to your observable events of erosion. Time would prevent those types of events from being observed by one person. From mountain to hill is many generations.
What you describe has elements of faith involved. Your example shows that mountains have material come down (rather than go up), that is not proof that the whole thing will be more or less flat at some point in the far distant future (a break in the chain, like water starting the cycle, could prevent some consequence of that action from happening. No water, no freezing, no freezing, no widening of any cracks, no widening, no broken rock, no broken rock, no erosion. Faith would be that the falling rock was an event that will continue forever (or until it is too flat to allow gravity to free-fall rocks.
You're claiming, then, that your understanding of gravitational lensing is superior to that of all the physicists who've thought about the phenomenon since Einstein first published the equations of general relativity in 1915, and they're all wrong? Does it not occur to you that perhaps it's *your* understanding that's faulty?
A feather is not soft tissue. It is made of integument, in this case Keratin which is nearly as tough as the Chitin that forms the exo-skeleton of arthropods. So, while it's not made up of minerals, it's toughness allows for certain conditions where it can be preserved. Very special circumstances. The feathered dinosaurs are found in an area with a large amount of ash. The large amount of ash allows for fine details in the remains of animals. For every rule there are exceptions...
Yours. Having a missing link of course is not proof that a link exists. But for the rest of the fossil record where we do have links, it is proof.
Dictionary.com is not an authoritative text on matters scientific. Dictionaries are meant for quick reference, not thorough study. Two separate species can reproduce. I gave you an example with the domestic horse, and the wild Przewalski's horse. This is an example of closely related species, that still have the ability to reproduce. We can deduce from that fact, that the two species do not have much evolutionary distance between them.
Yes. I explained later in that exchange that there is a minimum threshold. But the population of bacteria is not analogous to "Viruses change due to changes in Bacteria". A virus changes due to changes to it's nucleic acids during replication.
That's not at all the same as saying there is a concentration of phages around us, and the concentration must be about the same for bacteria. Types being roughly equal is correct, the number around us isn't.
It's out of context because none of that is in any way a smoking gun that shows there is no evolution. In fact it's quite the opposite. Bacteria and the phages have co-evolved. They can evolve quickly to changes in their counterpart due to the very fast generation times...
Follow those references (the ones appearing in medical journals) and see where any of them show an efficacy against streptococcus aureus for example, beyond the use of anti-biotics. Then, keep in mind that just because something can kill bacteria, doesn't mean you should ingest it...
Yes, a properly set up study. Not the claims of snake oil sales reps.
You said Adam listed them all. Where did he list them all. The new species we're finding, could Adam see the fish down at the bottom of the deep-sea trenches? Of course not...
Are you serious? Of course domestication altered physical attributes. Altered them in our favour. Release a domesticated animal and see how well it performs compared to the wild version.
St. Helens has been a mountian as long as humans have been around. You're being obtuse again.
Where Adam and Eve of one 'host family'? How does our global Human population have so much variation? It's because populations expand and become separated, and they like all animal populations show variation.
You don't believe a lot of things. I don't take any offense. I understand people have biases...
There could be. Doubtful.
No. Not the same kind as yours. Yours are asking questions from a guarded position. I didn't decide to embrace evolution, I leartned what it is. Your questions don't come from a place of genuine learning, because you have a book that skips through the how, why, what, and when or answers them in simple platitudes.
I'm not rejecting what it says about the past. I'm rejecting what it says about the physical world. If it gets that wrong-which it does-I have no doubt it will get the future wrong.
Where did I claim we come from apes and monkeys. We're evolutionary cousins to them. That's why it's not a minor mistake.
Well, we don't have physical specimens do we? You can't measure surface area with just the skull. You can measure volume. You can't even measure the mass.
My point was and is that you can't make any useful predictions of the future, because the changes that would happen are dictated by a number of factors. That's what selection means.
Darwin's work is more than just change and variation. People often forget the second part of the title. "...or, the preservation of favoured races in the struggle for life." Darwinism is about stability and uniformity as much as it is about change and variation.
If you want to read a recent work that is very good, and you have access to a good library, find:
Foote, M., Crampton, J.S., Beu, A.G., Marshall, B.A., Cooper, R.A., Maxwell, P.A., Matchum, I, 2007. Rise and fall of species occupancy in Cenozoic fossil mollusks. Science. 318: 1131-1134.
A very good report.
If time and space (just space in this instance) are bent then could not that account for what would appear to be the bending of visible light rays.
"Einstein answered this question in a revolutionary way. According to Einstein, gravity is not a force which pulls on things; rather, it is a curvature of space and time caused by the presence of a nearby massive object (like the Earth). When something comes along and moves past the massive object, it will appear to be pulled towards it, but in reality, it isn't being pulled at all. It is actually moving along the same straight line that it was moving along in empty space, but this straight line will now look like it is curved, due to gravity's warping of the underlying "space-time" continuum."
Curious About Astronomy? The Theory of Relativity
Are all other rays bent the same? Like infrared and gamma.
They should be affected at various rates.
"Einstein answered this question in a revolutionary way. According to Einstein, gravity is not a force which pulls on things; rather, it is a curvature of space and time caused by the presence of a nearby massive object (like the Earth). When something comes along and moves past the massive object, it will appear to be pulled towards it, but in reality, it isn't being pulled at all. It is actually moving along the same straight line that it was moving along in empty space, but this straight line will now look like it is curved, due to gravity's warping of the underlying "space-time" continuum."
Curious About Astronomy? The Theory of Relativity
Are all other rays bent the same? Like infrared and gamma.
They should be affected at various rates.
Of course that would be the ultimate, but they control us, we have no power over them,
they are the aggressive leaders, who have made all the trouble, and caused much of the
death and all the wars, they will not leave, nor will the billions of god lovers, who have
such narrow minds, so it is up to 'us' the individual who thinks outside the box, with the
broad view and the innovative ideas who will have to 'shove off', and I will be the first
one aboard. By then we will know where to go, we will have found other earths like
ours, and there will be choices.
(of course I won't be here, and this will have to happen many milleniums into the future),
if we are still here at all.
Maybe I will make this into a movie, seems appropriate.;-)
You're still confusing it with phenomena like refraction and diffraction. The effect is the same for all forms of electromagnetic radiation. The effect is not on the radiation itself, it's on the contours of the space it's moving through, all wavelengths are bent the same amount. There is an observed gravitational spectral shift, also predicted by general relativity, but that's a different phenomenon, and also affects all wavelengths equally.
Not really, if the cause is bent space then the light is unaffected because it follows what would be a straight line if not for the curvature of space itself. Space does contain mass so gravity should be able to effect it.
Some sites promote black-holes bending light, others say our sun can also do it to a tiny degree. What about the earth?
If light was to skim past our earth and touch just our atmosphere would it be 'bent' (a series of minute changes in direction while in a water drop and a straight line until it hit another one), could that be confused with a gravitational effect. One of the problems for earth bound telescopes it the bending of light waves due to atmosphere. Heat also can a cause a 'shimmer effect' that is also bent light.
Light is a product of heat, can heat effect the path of light?
Some sites promote black-holes bending light, others say our sun can also do it to a tiny degree. What about the earth?
If light was to skim past our earth and touch just our atmosphere would it be 'bent' (a series of minute changes in direction while in a water drop and a straight line until it hit another one), could that be confused with a gravitational effect. One of the problems for earth bound telescopes it the bending of light waves due to atmosphere. Heat also can a cause a 'shimmer effect' that is also bent light.
Light is a product of heat, can heat effect the path of light?
Hey Mhz,
How's about you familiarize yourself with this simple experiment...
Double-slit experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
While photons behave in a predictable manner, they do not behave in the same manner that one would predict for other particles...
For instance:
Wrap your head around that one...
How's about you familiarize yourself with this simple experiment...
Double-slit experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
While photons behave in a predictable manner, they do not behave in the same manner that one would predict for other particles...
For instance:
Wrap your head around that one...
Yes really, because that's exactly what I said, the light's following the shape of space.
I presume you mean affect, not effect, but it's not clear what you're asking. Gravity should be able to affect what? Space? Light? Mass is the source of gravity, which general relativity interprets as a distortion in the shape of space around a mass.
Any mass does it, at least to a calculable degree, but the effect is very small unless the mass is very large.
No, those effects would be far larger than the gravitational effect.
Heat has a very specific technical meaning in physics as a manifestation of the motion of atoms and molecules and the movement of energy from one place to another, you haven't quite got the idea there, but it won't by itself affect the path of light in the sense I think you're asking about. The boundaries between layers of air at different temperatures produce refraction effects that result in things like mirages, which is certainly a change in the path of light, but a hot mass won't have different gravitational lensing effects than a cold one.
"Follow those references (the ones appearing in medical journals) and see where any of them show an efficacy against streptococcus aureus for example, beyond the use of anti-biotics. Then, keep in mind that just because something can kill bacteria, doesn't mean you should ingest it..."
Do you mean an article like this?
Follow those references (the ones appearing in medical journals) and see where any of them show an efficacy against streptococcus aureus for example, beyond the use of anti-biotics. Then, keep in mind that just because something can kill bacteria, doesn't mean you should ingest it...
http://www.silver-colloids.com/Pubs/EMSL/VRSA.pdf
That appears to be part of a wider study.
Colloidal Silver Bacteriology Study Results: MRSA, VRSA, VRE
Do you mean an article like this?
Follow those references (the ones appearing in medical journals) and see where any of them show an efficacy against streptococcus aureus for example, beyond the use of anti-biotics. Then, keep in mind that just because something can kill bacteria, doesn't mean you should ingest it...
http://www.silver-colloids.com/Pubs/EMSL/VRSA.pdf
That appears to be part of a wider study.
Colloidal Silver Bacteriology Study Results: MRSA, VRSA, VRE
Okay, I read a few. Those studies show that colloidal silver in 1% and 10% solution kills assorted pathogens in a petri dish. The results don't extend to concluding that ingesting it would have the same effect. See if you can figure out how how much of the stuff you'd have to swallow to get a 1% concentration in your bodily fluids. And read this: Colloidal Silver: Risk Without Benefit
LOL Why not suggest a person also take the bacteria. You can have a much lower level than 1% if that level is maintained over a longer period of time than the few hours the tests were run for. What you don't like to see is the 0 for survival rate.
You do know how argyria occurs right. Improperly made CS.
"First, let me lay to rest the myth that colloidal silver causes people to turn blue or gray. This widely circulated fable about the condition, Argyria, is simply a weapon formed against colloidal silver by those who are set out to stop its use among the people. The only two cases of Argyria that anyone can connect a name with, that I know of, are those of Rosemary Jacobs and Stan Jones."
Welcome to Argyria information website
Argyria Facts and Fallacies
It is unwise to trust -- offhand -- what colloidal silver marketing companies have to say about the condition of argyria. Some companies truly believe that their high potency, high PPM silver compound products do not cause argyria, because so many people have been using them for years with no occurrence of argyria. Some simply outright lie, or modify the truth, claiming their products do not cause argyria because they are labeled for low quantity use. This practice is very common amidst those who sell mild silver protein and silver salts.
It is also unwise to trust the modern medical profession concerning silver and argyria. The fact is, very few modern MD's have any experience with this condition, and their knowledge is often limited to a very shallow cursory review of the subject matter. A cursory review of the medical cases of argyria due to silver consumption is not favorable without carefully studying the available data and placing all clinical evidence in proper perspective. This cannot be done in a few minutes or even a few hours without having all of the data pre-collected, nor without having a good deal of knowledge about the differences between all of the silver medicinal products marketed both in the past and in today's market.
However, the truth of the matter is that not everyone is at equal risk for argyria ( see our section which includes the EPA RISK studies ), and not all products can be assessed in the same manner. There are multiple factors associated with the risk for argyria, some of which have not been identified. This is likely the primary reason why different scientists who have studied argyria have come up with very different conclusions.
As an example, the EPA RISK studies document clinical evidence demonstrating that a selenium deficiency increases the risk of argyria, and an over-abundance of selenium in the body may increase the silver deposited in non-critical internal tissues ( the silver buildup in the latter case does not enduce a toxic reaction to silver, however, increased levels of silver were measured in some organs ). The body utilizes selenium to help eliminate silver from the body: Silver bonds with selenium. When the body is depleted of selenium, the amount of silver deposited into tissues is drastically increased. This was conclusively demonstrated by a researcher known as Petering in the 1970's.
High concentrations of silver taken over a prolonged period of time can cause the body to deplete its supply of selenium, thereby dramatically increasing the risk for argyria -- or should we say lowering the body's threshold for total amount of silver ingested required to be at risk for argyria. Delivery of high concentrations of silver into membranes ( such as mucus membranes in the sinus cavities ) can result in the rapid onset of Argyria when used daily, such as silver nitrate used to treat sinus infections -- but it doesn't always do so! To contrast, a properly made isolated silver at between 5 PPM and 20 PPM has been widely used for sinus treatments with not one case of any type of silver toxicity, and at volumes measured in ounces, not drops.
Therefore, it is quite possible, and even quite likely according to available research, that an individual can use 2 ounces of 10 PPM silver daily for fifty years and not incur any risk for argyria, and yet the same individual with a predisposition to the condition could take two ounces of a high PPM product, or eight ounces of an extremely poorly made product, and develop argyria in a few short years, when the product is used daily.
In fact, there are literally thousands of individuals who have been taking a properly made, quality silver daily from five to fifteen years with no side effects whatsoever, some of which have been ingesting 8 to 16 ounces daily. Those who utilize the right kind of isolated silver with moderation and when needed will have no associated risk of argyria. This is an established fact based on scientific studies on the body's tolerance for silver, and how much silver must be ingested in order to reach the determined threshold level for the risk of argyria.
However, it should be noted that those who utilize large amounts of even the right kind of colloidal silver, drinking 8 ounces to a liter of colloidal silver daily for years on end, are working in the unknown, as there is no evidence to suggest that a low concentration colloidal silver will build up in tissues, and there is no evidence suggesting that it cannot. Individuals who ( in many cases very wisely ) elect to treat chronic conditions with daily, long term use should consider developing a whole food natural supplement program to help reduce the risk of argyria.
The truth of the matter: A vast amount of solid research has been done concerning silver toxicity, but all the data acquired was utilizing extremely large doses of silver compounds over short periods of time. While opinions are varied, and there is general consensus that even large amounts of low PPM, properly made colloidal silver will not cause argyria, these are beliefs founded in reason and based on limited anecdotal evidence, and not established scientific fact.
Cosmetic Argyria | Argyrosis | Cure for Argyria | Cured
Normally I would say that you should have read this for yourself, that you didn't only shows you have a clear agenda, and it has nothing at all to do with having the best wishes for your fellow man. Quite the opposite actually, you prefer to sow disinformation. You are simply establishment first. That's fine, people should do their own research into things like CS and most sites that promote silver only tell you how to make your own (and how to test it) rather than also offering any for sale. $6 for 5oz, the actual cost is a 30v dc power supply $3 at any second-hand store or use your printer power supply if it has the right voltage, 14gage pure silver wire (99.999%) and distilled water. The wire might cost $15 and the water $2 for 4 ltrs. That is your total expense until the wire 'wears out' after 100gallons or so.
I can hardly wait for you to 'condemn' the use of hydrogen peroxide as a way to combat modern ailments. Are you another one who would use the info about 35% food-grade being harmful to a person if swallowed, and it would be that is why ingestion in any form is not to be above 3% solution. 11oz distilled water to 1oz of 35% peroxide will give you a 3% solution and that is taken drop by drop just in case you would suggest it be taken by the glass-full.
I can now understand why you so doggidly stick to your version of what the Bible says (making it confusing and unreadable),
You do know how argyria occurs right. Improperly made CS.
"First, let me lay to rest the myth that colloidal silver causes people to turn blue or gray. This widely circulated fable about the condition, Argyria, is simply a weapon formed against colloidal silver by those who are set out to stop its use among the people. The only two cases of Argyria that anyone can connect a name with, that I know of, are those of Rosemary Jacobs and Stan Jones."
Welcome to Argyria information website
Argyria Facts and Fallacies
It is unwise to trust -- offhand -- what colloidal silver marketing companies have to say about the condition of argyria. Some companies truly believe that their high potency, high PPM silver compound products do not cause argyria, because so many people have been using them for years with no occurrence of argyria. Some simply outright lie, or modify the truth, claiming their products do not cause argyria because they are labeled for low quantity use. This practice is very common amidst those who sell mild silver protein and silver salts.
It is also unwise to trust the modern medical profession concerning silver and argyria. The fact is, very few modern MD's have any experience with this condition, and their knowledge is often limited to a very shallow cursory review of the subject matter. A cursory review of the medical cases of argyria due to silver consumption is not favorable without carefully studying the available data and placing all clinical evidence in proper perspective. This cannot be done in a few minutes or even a few hours without having all of the data pre-collected, nor without having a good deal of knowledge about the differences between all of the silver medicinal products marketed both in the past and in today's market.
However, the truth of the matter is that not everyone is at equal risk for argyria ( see our section which includes the EPA RISK studies ), and not all products can be assessed in the same manner. There are multiple factors associated with the risk for argyria, some of which have not been identified. This is likely the primary reason why different scientists who have studied argyria have come up with very different conclusions.
As an example, the EPA RISK studies document clinical evidence demonstrating that a selenium deficiency increases the risk of argyria, and an over-abundance of selenium in the body may increase the silver deposited in non-critical internal tissues ( the silver buildup in the latter case does not enduce a toxic reaction to silver, however, increased levels of silver were measured in some organs ). The body utilizes selenium to help eliminate silver from the body: Silver bonds with selenium. When the body is depleted of selenium, the amount of silver deposited into tissues is drastically increased. This was conclusively demonstrated by a researcher known as Petering in the 1970's.
High concentrations of silver taken over a prolonged period of time can cause the body to deplete its supply of selenium, thereby dramatically increasing the risk for argyria -- or should we say lowering the body's threshold for total amount of silver ingested required to be at risk for argyria. Delivery of high concentrations of silver into membranes ( such as mucus membranes in the sinus cavities ) can result in the rapid onset of Argyria when used daily, such as silver nitrate used to treat sinus infections -- but it doesn't always do so! To contrast, a properly made isolated silver at between 5 PPM and 20 PPM has been widely used for sinus treatments with not one case of any type of silver toxicity, and at volumes measured in ounces, not drops.
Therefore, it is quite possible, and even quite likely according to available research, that an individual can use 2 ounces of 10 PPM silver daily for fifty years and not incur any risk for argyria, and yet the same individual with a predisposition to the condition could take two ounces of a high PPM product, or eight ounces of an extremely poorly made product, and develop argyria in a few short years, when the product is used daily.
In fact, there are literally thousands of individuals who have been taking a properly made, quality silver daily from five to fifteen years with no side effects whatsoever, some of which have been ingesting 8 to 16 ounces daily. Those who utilize the right kind of isolated silver with moderation and when needed will have no associated risk of argyria. This is an established fact based on scientific studies on the body's tolerance for silver, and how much silver must be ingested in order to reach the determined threshold level for the risk of argyria.
However, it should be noted that those who utilize large amounts of even the right kind of colloidal silver, drinking 8 ounces to a liter of colloidal silver daily for years on end, are working in the unknown, as there is no evidence to suggest that a low concentration colloidal silver will build up in tissues, and there is no evidence suggesting that it cannot. Individuals who ( in many cases very wisely ) elect to treat chronic conditions with daily, long term use should consider developing a whole food natural supplement program to help reduce the risk of argyria.
The truth of the matter: A vast amount of solid research has been done concerning silver toxicity, but all the data acquired was utilizing extremely large doses of silver compounds over short periods of time. While opinions are varied, and there is general consensus that even large amounts of low PPM, properly made colloidal silver will not cause argyria, these are beliefs founded in reason and based on limited anecdotal evidence, and not established scientific fact.
Cosmetic Argyria | Argyrosis | Cure for Argyria | Cured
Normally I would say that you should have read this for yourself, that you didn't only shows you have a clear agenda, and it has nothing at all to do with having the best wishes for your fellow man. Quite the opposite actually, you prefer to sow disinformation. You are simply establishment first. That's fine, people should do their own research into things like CS and most sites that promote silver only tell you how to make your own (and how to test it) rather than also offering any for sale. $6 for 5oz, the actual cost is a 30v dc power supply $3 at any second-hand store or use your printer power supply if it has the right voltage, 14gage pure silver wire (99.999%) and distilled water. The wire might cost $15 and the water $2 for 4 ltrs. That is your total expense until the wire 'wears out' after 100gallons or so.
I can hardly wait for you to 'condemn' the use of hydrogen peroxide as a way to combat modern ailments. Are you another one who would use the info about 35% food-grade being harmful to a person if swallowed, and it would be that is why ingestion in any form is not to be above 3% solution. 11oz distilled water to 1oz of 35% peroxide will give you a 3% solution and that is taken drop by drop just in case you would suggest it be taken by the glass-full.
I can now understand why you so doggidly stick to your version of what the Bible says (making it confusing and unreadable),
For most cases, there are fossils that show the pattern of the 'skin' of dinosaurs right?
So we move the reproduction requirement further down the line, can a beast of the field mate and have offspring with 'cattle'.
They do seem to have an action/reaction type of relationship. Can any change in bacteria be from the fact that there is something 'out there' that can destroy them?
But they have remained as bacteria and as phages, that is progression as a species, overall the number of species remains the same, the number in each species is allowed to grow and I don't believe there is a upper limit to that number. Extinction would certainly halt any further numbers being added.
Why would anybody buy pre-made CS? 1 when you make it yourself you know the quality (that might require buying something that can show you the PPM in the beginning) and 2 CS is affected by sunlight, the way to keep it 'freshest' is to keep it in a dark place and then keep it in an amber container (like photo paper can only be safely handled in the dark or under a red-light)
I would laugh my ass of if it was CS that saved Dexter's life back when he was about 3, after all that was about 1940.
The where is in the garden that was planted in the east of Eden. He didn't write down a list, nor did he travel, God brought them to him to be named. Who says we are finding a 'new species' maybe we are just finding a species we didn't previously know about but they were there when Adam was around.
But that is not evolution, it was not a 'natural change' it was a willful act that resulted is some changes. I would afgree that anything tame would be toast in a short time if released into the wild without a wild parent to teach it the ways of the wild.
The environment may have some impact of the color of our skin but that is as far as the deviation has gone. Variation is not a matter of geography, all the ones in the same local have variation no matter how long a period of time is examined.
Not really, they are from 'concept' (if this, then that), the part you don't like is that the concept may be Scripture induced and it also comes with the a hint (in that not all questions are fully answered) of an answer. Does God do things that stay within the bounds as He originally set them out, or are those just qhidelines for things to 'stay moving along' until He decides to do something Godly, at which point all scientists would put their books of learning down, more or less.
No, not articles like that. Articles submitted to refereed journals. Not the data from a company...if you can't see why that might be a problem, then you may have a problem yourself.
It's not a study, it's raw data. A study includes an introduction, materials and methods, results, discussion, conclusions, an abstract. That has none of this, and is all from a website promoting the use of their product...There's nothing wrong with a company that does research, but it should be published, not put up on some website without transparency in the results and methods.