Young adults have a right to be up in arms

[CDNBear]

I just asked the two young adults in my home about the challenges they face in the growing divide.

The youngest couldn't find part time work in the area that met his school schedule. So, he took it upon himself to do odd jobs for the aging community here. From simply raking leaves to cleaning out garages and lawn maintenance. He's made enough to purchase a new RTH crossbow package. Mind you he does use my riding mower, weedeater and hand tools.

The oldest was facing a similar issue, his career choice fell apart and couldn't find any work within any reasonable distance. He asked my tattooist if he could hang out and learn the art. The answer was yes. I did have to lay out some cash to get him a drawing tablet to practice on his computer with. But he was given a nice used tattoo gun, power supply and pedal. He is now looking into graphic arts courses at a local college and can pay for the courses himself.

 

[captain morgan]

Good for your sons on their endeavors Bear. Clearly, I do not know your sons, but it sure appears that they are highly motivated and interested in taking charge of their individual futures.

My hats off to you for having the foresight to provide the 'tools' for your sons that will allow them to make progress under their own terms.

 

[CDNBear]

Good for your sons on their endeavors Bear. Clearly, I do not know your sons, but it sure appears that they are highly motivated and interested in taking charge of their individual futures.

Thanks, although I have spoiled them and they have expensive tastes. The only thing that's changed from Tonka's and dirt bikes, is the price.

They both have bows, but I told them when they got their hunting licenses, if they wanted to use firearms or crossbows, they will have to purchase them on their own. Firstly, I think firearms and crossbows make the sport to easy. Secondly, if they purchase their own things, they will appreciate them more.

Vehicles are on their list of "must haves" now. The same rule applies. Buy it yourself, even a beater, and I'll help them in anyway I can to build a vehicle that meets their needs, not their wants.

My hats off to you for having the foresight to provide the 'tools' for your sons that will allow them to make progress under their own terms.

It was my choice to raise them in the sticks, it's the least I can do. And thanks again.

 

[wulfie68]

As a 43 year old, (I guess I am a Gen Xer) I appreciate both sides of the argument: there are a lot of kids out there who don't know how or want to know how to work at things because their parents have worked at giving them everything. A lot of kids do have a strong sense of entitlement that would do David Dingwall proud, because they have never been told "no". When it comes to careers, too many think that they should get the career they want, as soon as they finish school, just because they have a degree or certification, regardless of what their chosen industry or the economy in general is doing.

At the same time, opportunities are NOT as plentiful as when my parents were young, and I know this from discussions with them. My Dad told me once that he was never unemployed in his life, and that when he was young there were odd occasions where he quit a job by morning coffee time, quit another at noon and finished the day at a 3rd (and don't take this as an indictment of my Dad's work ethic, as it is extremely strong, to the point that he was able to work himself into a successful businessman by 40 and he hasn't slowed down since). Dad couldn't relate to my struggles when to find a job early in my career. He helped me, for which I am grateful, but he didn't get it... just like some of those posting here don't get it.

As for education, its an investment, and as such, that means its not necessarily for everyone. An individual has to calculate the return on that investment to see if it is the right choice for them. Going to university doesn't and shouldn't guarantee a thing. A lot of students, DO take fluff degrees with little to no practical application. Engineering students who graduate don't have issues finding jobs, but Arts students have a tougher road ahead. Studying what you want is, in some cases, a luxury, not a necessity and too many don't understand that when they complain about the cost of higher education.

I do think there is some justification for complaint in that the Baby Boomers( who really have been the most selfish generation), now approaching senior citizenship, HAVE milked the social service system to a point where it is stretched thin to those who come after, but complaining doesn't do anything to solve it: young people have to adjust and solve problems for themselves, and treat any aid they receive as a bonus. Plan for the worst and hope for the best.

 

[karrie]

Well, if they're as disgruntled about it as they say they are, we'll see change when they get older and are the new policy setters, right? They'll make sure they're giving up more of their paycheques so someone else's way is paid. Right? Because that's what they think is fair and right and proper. Right?

lol.... ah, youth.

 

[CDNBear]

Well, if they're as disgruntled about it as they say they are, we'll see change when they get older and are the new policy setters, right? They'll make sure they're giving up more of their paycheques so someone else's way is paid. Right? Because that's what they think is fair and right and proper. Right?

lol.... ah, youth.

Yep, just like the 60's counterculture hero's, the hippies, did.

 

[karrie]

Yep, just like the 60's counterculture hero's, the hippies, did.

I have seen some people carry their ideals forward into adulthood, but they're few and far between.

 

[CDNBear]

I have seen some people carry their ideals forward into adulthood, but they're few and far between.

I won't argue with that.

I've met many 60's hippies that turned out to be everything from Journeymen mechanics to Engineers. Who regaled me with their exploits as the counterculture folk they were.

The only surviving ideal, they still love their pot.

My favourite sarcastic rub is, "You used to be about the love, man!"

 

[karrie]

I won't argue with that.

I've met many 60's hippies that turned out to be everything from Journeymen mechanics to Engineers. Who regaled me with their exploits as the counterculture folk they were.

The only surviving ideal, they still love their pot.

My favourite sarcastic rub is, "You used to be about the love, man!"

I've met a couple teachers, midwives, and even some folks who took to the bush to live on communes, that have made good on their old ideals. And they too still love their pot. lol.

 

[WLDB]

Well, if they're as disgruntled about it as they say they are, we'll see change when they get older and are the new policy setters, right? They'll make sure they're giving up more of their paycheques so someone else's way is paid. Right? Because that's what they think is fair and right and proper. Right?

lol.... ah, youth.

Its a possibility. The government already keeps tuition fairly low compared to the actual cost. Post-secondary funding isnt just for the student. It's also an investment in the society. Generally the better educated a population is the better off the country is.

 

[CDNBear]

Its a possibility. The government already keeps tuition fairly low compared to the actual cost. Post-secondary funding isnt just for the student. It's also an investment in the society. Generally the better educated a population is the better off the country is.

That's why I think higher education should be free, to those that meet the requirements.

 

[SLM]

That's why I think higher education should be free, to those that meet the requirements.

Absolutely. I think the ones that meet the requirements,in other words have excelled thus far in life, are more likely to do well after graduating too. This is, I think, the way you build up a society because it creates a strong base. I can also see it having a trickle down effect as well, the stronger the base the more likely society as a whole might eventually be able to make all education free. That should be the ideal goal anyway, in my opinion. But just like an individual has to earn their individual opportunities by working for them, I think society as a whole needs to earn them as well.

 

[CDNBear]

Furthermore, those that don't get the grades to go on to post secondary education, should be guided to trades, or other forms of further education, that will meet the demands of society. All free.

 

[SLM]

Furthermore, those that don't get the grades to go on to post secondary education, should be guided to trades, or other forms of further education, that will meet the demands of society. All free.

Yes, we can't forget that trades or other occupations that don't really require a degree still require training and education. I'm mean, when all is said and done, we still need people to work as cashier's at the grocery store. But if we can work smart at building a better society, perhaps they will actually be able to live off what they earn there. I know right now, that's not doable for most and that's with legislated minimum wages.

Everybody always says we need to make education a priority but no one ever does. But that's how you build a better world.

 

[skookumchuck]

Yup. That's the attitude right there: "When I was young I started out with nothing..." What these students are saying is, "I wish I could start out with nothing."

In the time since the 60's the ratio of the median income of a family to the cost of an education has grown from about 2:1, to about 1:2. The cost of education has been increasing at a much higher rate than inflation since the 60's, and the educational requirements of most jobs has been growing in the meanwhile. We aren't even talking about houses, so what are you on about?

Students are demanding reasonable tuition, and your interpretation is that they want any living they want? Pay closer attention, please. I left the country and went to a university that cost 1/10th the price of the universities I went to in Canada. These are not unreasonable demands, but your attitude is.

Just what allowed you to leave the country for schooling? Where did that money come from, did you have to work as well. Tell you what Mr Arrogance, if i was 20 years old i could do the same again right here and now where tuition is much higher than paybec. They wish they could start out with nothing? What are you on?

Want an example? If i was physically healthy i could make a decent living working a nearby gold claim that costs me 40 bucks a year to keep. Or i could do a number of other things that would allow me to save money for schooling, as long as i was prepared once again to sacrifice. Now heaven forbid the little sweeties would get their hands dirty because the city jobs are minimum wage. Live in parent's basement or get a camp job, suck it up buttercup, life is tough, even tougher if you are a whining wimp.
I would trade with them in a heartbeat, they can have my paid for home and acreage and OAP, i just want their youth:roll:

 

[gerryh]

Furthermore, those that don't get the grades to go on to post secondary education, should be guided to trades, or other forms of further education, that will meet the demands of society. All free.

I think you need to rethink this Bear. What needs to be done is for society to stop pushing University as the be all and end all. Stop having the attitude that the "smart ones" go to University and the "dumb ones" go to trade schools. I'll tell you right now, it takes a hell of a lot of smarts, hard work, AND education to become a good auto mechanic these days. Welding is a lot more than arc welding 2 pieces of steel together, plumbing is more complicated than gluing abs.

Yes, we can't forget that trades or other occupations that don't really require a degree still require training and education.

A hell of alot more training and education than the dummies with the degrees realize.

 

[taxslave]

What a steaming reeking pile of dung this premise is!
In the early 60's i spent two fekking years working in the north to save money for my tuition at a trade school, i stayed there for months at a time also when others were "going to the city" every couple weeks to party and blow money. I had enough by then to go to university, barely, but did not want that.

When i decided to have a home i went to a rural area which was cheaper and lived like a mole in a hastily erected basement while i built the upper floor, had a wife and two kids by that time also. I had to learn carpentry the hard way and used to drive into town to a subdivision where the builders would tell me how to do something on their coffee break if i brought donuts. I know it sounds like 10 miles to school uphill both ways but this is the simple truth.
I got caught in the mortgage spiral when i was building in 1980 which nearly doubled my payments so i worked two jobs and toughed it out.

Nothing has changed regarding the ratio of annual wage to the coat of an ordinary home unless these poor entitled dip****s insist on a job and home in just the right area of a major city. Twas the same back then, too expensive for a middle income wage earner.

I have immediate family currently working in the boonies for the same reason. One nephew in particular is making over a hundred grand a year in the bush and saving 30 of it towards an education, another had the sense not to knock up some girl and is saving for a home under the same circumstances, he, btw, grew up in a city. Yep saving, no 5-10 percent down, he is thinking 60% down and not in an upscale neighborhood, just an entry level new home.

Gad! It is sickening to listen to young people who have been brainwashed to think they can demand any living they wish.

Most of us went into the new subdivisions at NIGHT to get a better price on lumber. LOL I worked for a building contractor for a while to gain skills.

Yup. That's the attitude right there: "When I was young I started out with nothing..." What these students are saying is, "I wish I could start out with nothing."

In the time since the 60's the ratio of the median income of a family to the cost of an education has grown from about 2:1, to about 1:2. The cost of education has been increasing at a much higher rate than inflation since the 60's, and the educational requirements of most jobs has been growing in the meanwhile. We aren't even talking about houses, so what are you on about?

Students are demanding reasonable tuition, and your interpretation is that they want any living they want? Pay closer attention, please. I left the country and went to a university that cost 1/10th the price of the universities I went to in Canada. These are not unreasonable demands, but your attitude is.

Not so. Skukumchuck's attitude is not unreasonable. It is the gimme attitude of kids that is unreasonable. Most of these kids could find decent paying camp jobs to finance their education if they were not so lazy. Last year BC had trouble getting enough tree planter to get the necessary amount of trees in the ground. Anyone with a bit of ambition can make over $300/day doing this. Also have to wonder about their parents money skills as well. Granted not everyone is rich but with a little planning and not too much bad luck almost every family can squirrel away a few bucks. My parents did without lots of luxuries to build a mortgage free house and put some money aside for school. I did it for my son and am now doing it for my granddaughter by putting my volunteer firefighter practice pay in an RESP. It is not much money and most people could blow it in a weekend but in 16 years it adds up.

I think you need to rethink this Bear. What needs to be done is for society to stop pushing University as the be all and end all. Stop having the attitude that the "smart ones" go to University and the "dumb ones" go to trade schools. I'll tell you right now, it takes a hell of a lot of smarts, hard work, AND education to become a good auto mechanic these days. Welding is a lot more than arc welding 2 pieces of steel together, plumbing is more complicated than gluing abs.



A hell of alot more training and education than the dummies with the degrees realize.

Excellent point. A friend that is a GM service manager told the local high school auto mechanics class that without a B average they would not make it as a mechanic these days.

 

[gerryh]

Excellent point. A friend that is a GM service manager told the local high school auto mechanics class that without a B average they would not make it as a mechanic these days.

Yup, it may have been an "engineer" that designed that automobile, but it's the mechanic that has to keep it running and fix the engineers screw ups.

 

[SLM]

A hell of alot more training and education than the dummies with the degrees realize.

Oh absolutely, I know it does. Didn't intend to imply otherwise, if that's how it came across. Higher education, in my opinion, is anything post-secondary.

 

[damngrumpy]

Just because Quebec may be the cheapest for education does not mean
we have to make it more expensive. Every time politicians are involved
they tell us the resources belong to all of us, ya right. If the resources really
belonged to Canadians, we would be charging a lot more and using the
money to invest in education. yes education would no longer be an expense.
It would become an investment.
Students would receive post secondary education with little or no cost providing
they maintained their average mark average or better. Upon completion of the
education they received, they would then work for the country for an agreed
upon time period at two thirds their income, until a portion was saved in order
to pay for the intake of the next group of students.
Yes there is a lot of things to figure out but there must be a method of finalizing
it. We cannot expect young people to go into huge debt, and be loyal to the
country and give them nothing in return. I do not support the violent group but
I do support the concept that the students are speaking up for themselves.
We are going to hear a lot more from young people on various issues. We want
these people to opt in and when they do we don't like their message. The
current crop of politicians are pushing today's young people right into the arms
of Mulcair and the NDP. No I don't blame these kids and I support them for
standing up for their interests. I do not support violence and most of them don't
either. Seniors stand up for their rights, business stands up for its rights and so
does labour, why not young adults.