Why immigrate to the US?

I think not

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We are of course generally speaking in this topic.... trying to label everybody with one paint brush doesn't work in this situation.

But you never hesitated to point out
(Being happy in general / being rich to be happy)

Praxius, you're entitled to your opinion, as distorted and sickly biased as it is. But try and refrain from jumping on your high horse exclaiming the moral authority that is Canada, because you're a far cry from it.
 

MikeyDB

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I can understand why many emigrate to America...

It's the soundness of the American dollar.... build a spy satellite...then build missile cruisers to shoot it down.... millions upon millions of dollars re-circulated

Work for Enron or many other American businesses...lose your pension and savings then claim hardship..... or get whacked by a hurricane and watch as billions of your taxpayer dollars are spent on an ilegitimate war while your life falls apart....

Learn Spanish as a second language and get a good job as a pool-cleaner or "maintenence-man"....then you get to send your kids to a school system that's failing even the wealthy white folk who wouldn't do your job in the first place...

Get comfortable with being the target of hatred and disdain as the result of decades of hate and war-mongering in the name of increasing profits for fraudulent companies that close their doors after they're convicted of fraud and have emptied your pension plan...

Why the opportunities are endless.....
 

Praxius

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But you never hesitated to point out.....

And at which point afterwards I pointed out and explained why I posted what I posted.... I would suggest you re-read (or read it for the first time) the things in which I ment towards "being rich to be happy" ~ which is a generic classification that expands to a more complex reality.

Praxius, you're entitled to your opinion, as distorted and sickly biased as it is. But try and refrain from jumping on your high horse exclaiming the moral authority that is Canada, because you're a far cry from it.

And yet again, there you go thinking I am trying to make some moral authority and relating to Canada.

I pointed out the differences which I have noticed over time.... once again... if you think they are negative to one side or the other, then that's your problem and perhaps you should do something about it, rather then trying to point the finger at others and trying to label them as trying to get on a high horse.

As a repeat of what I said earlier, a common trend I also see is exactly the above..... constructive criticism towards anything that may appear to be negative to the US that is intended as "CONSTRUCTIVE", you are immediatly thrown in the category I have just been place in by I think not, as someone always out to get the US, and that I feel the US will never be as good as Canada.......

...... When I have CLEARLY stated time and time again, frig even in this thread alone, that no country is better then another. Yet here you go again with this repetitive tripe, trying to say that I am claiming we're better.

Look, if you think I am potraying Canada as better, when I am clearly trying to point out differences which concern me, then perhaps it is not I who is downplaying your country, but yourself and your own angered ways of blaming someone else for your troubles.

I just explained in detail the differences I see between both countries.... you can either quote those points I made and refute them if you please, or STFU and stop attempting to tell me what I am saying.
 

EagleSmack

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Come on Praxius...on the level...

A lot and I mean a lot of your posts are more than "CONSTRUCTIVE" critisism. We read them...they are out there for all to read. I agree with some of your views but then you just lose a lot of folks here because you have set your feet firmly in "THAT" crowd. You've called US soldiers pigs, chime in on every US bashing thread...gosh I could go on. Heck you were even sucking up to that German guy trying to distance yourself and Canada from the US wrt Afghanistan. A country (Germany) with a military probably double than yours sitting in the rear with the gear not wanting to get dirty. But instead of letting him have it you handled him with kid gloves and accused the US of carpet bombing villages. The same country that marched hundreds of captured Canadian soldiers and executed them in WWII, the same country that expected Canadians to be there if the balloon went up during the Cold War, the same country that now sits nice and cozy out of harms way (pretty much) you felt you had to coddle him and take the opportunity to rip the US. It amazed me to read that and I couldn't even comment because I realized...

"Well Prax is obviously one of those Canadians that just hates America and Americans...no matter what."

Oh well...like I said this is just being on the level and not meant to inflame. You are entitled to your own opinion as we all are.
 

Praxius

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Come on Praxius...on the level...

A lot and I mean a lot of your posts are more than "CONSTRUCTIVE" critisism. We read them...they are out there for all to read. I agree with some of your views but then you just lose a lot of folks here because you have set your feet firmly in "THAT" crowd.

And once again as explained countless times before, and evidence provided, My feet and position rarely stay in one spot to begin with, on many topics.

The problem here is when I throw out the comparisons between the two countries, they are obviously based on my own personal experiences and opinion..... thereby you will most likely see that I have a "Hate" or a "Like" towards what I am talking about or comparing.

BUT!

Just because I hate something or a situation in which is the current topic, or I make it sound like I prefer one thing over another, that still does not mean I hate all of something, or I position myself in one section of thinking. I isolate my posts and opinions to each thread and topic, because each thread and topic is different (Or they'd be all one thread to begin with)

There are a lot of things in the US I personally hate. There are plenty of things even I take offense to when being compared to the US... I am sure you yourself have a few things that bug or PO you when being compared to Canada or any other country..... but do you yourself directly hate that country in question? Probably not. I listed off a few things I hate that goes on in the US that seems more rampant then here in Canada. To me, those are issues which need to be addressed before I can coment positively on them.

But that does not mean I hate everything the US and its people stand for and I wish for them to all die.

I am not anti-american. If I am, so be it, but it is anti-american towards where your country has ended up since Bush came into power. Before that, when Clinton was President, things in the US were still not perfect, but you sure didn't hear me bitching about the problems. You guys were just another country. A bit overly proud of yourselves (Still are to a degree) but I wasn't out there to take that away from you guys and try and pump us or anything else as better.

Before Bush, you guys actually had a good excuse to pump yourselves up.

You've called US soldiers pigs,

Show me a source where I have called US Soldiers "pigs." ~ I may have called a soldier here or there a few names, but I wouldn't go around generalizing the entire force based on a select few troops.

I will, however, generalize based on common trends and reports of things occuring at the hands of US troops and if there seems to be no action to resolving the said situations, then of course it then becomes generalized, because then what's actually stopping it from being true? Nothing. So once in a while, I'll go and rattle some cages and piss a few people off and say a few things to get the attention to the topic. That still doesn't mean I hate you guys.

But please, show me where I called all US Soldiers pigs and I will correct myself. I have a funny feeling this is yet another example where I was taken out of context.

chime in on every US bashing thread...gosh I could go on.

Actually there have been a good select number of those threads I specifically avoided because they were US Bashing threads. But if the topic has something interesting about it, and I have a comment I want to post..... and if I want to express my feelings and opinion on that topic, then I very damn well will.

Heck you were even sucking up to that German guy trying to distance yourself and Canada from the US wrt Afghanistan. A country (Germany) with a military probably double than yours sitting in the rear with the gear not wanting to get dirty. But instead of letting him have it you handled him with kid gloves and accused the US of carpet bombing villages.

Oh, so you didn't notice the difference in communication between us did you? He responded maturely and I listened fairly to what he had to say, as he did to I. He explained his position clearly and I did the same.

Here, you both are Telling me how I think and what I am without actually listening to what is being said. Do you see the difference?

Oh, and if you continued reading through that thread you mentioned, you would notice that after I took more time to read through his posts, I responded directly as I would have anybody else..... but since he didn't give me attitude, I responded as directly, yet as fair as possible.

The same country that marched hundreds of captured Canadian soldiers and executed them in WWII, the same country that expected Canadians to be there if the balloon went up during the Cold War, the same country that now sits nice and cozy out of harms way (pretty much) you felt you had to coddle him and take the opportunity to rip the US.

If you are trying to get an emotional appeal from me based on things that occured long before I was born, then you have a lot of work to do.

Those things occured in the past and attempting to bitch him out because he lives in a country with a history like the above and where he directly was never involved in those matters, would be just plain silly.

However, I may appear to bitch the US out a lot, because the US is currently doing many potientially dangerous things in our time right now.... heck even as I type this. My opinions and possibly loud mouth ways are due to the desire of preventing the past from repeating. Bitching and moaning about things which already occured half a century ago isn't going to fix anything. And I assure you that if it was any other country doing these things, then they would get equal flack.... it has nothing to do with you guys being from the States or being the US..... it's just plainly that most of the problems I comment on are related to the US..... sad but true, but that still doesn't mean I am Anti-American.

It amazed me to read that and I couldn't even comment because I realized...

"Well Prax is obviously one of those Canadians that just hates America and Americans...no matter what."
no matter what.... indeed.

I am also pretty sure you have no idea about the family in which I have in the US, let alone other areas of the planet. I know plenty of people from the US, and I know plenty of people from elsewhere..... just because you are from the US, doesn't automatically make me hate you or think you're some inbred redneck..... just as I would imagine you don't directly think I'm some maple syrup swilling lumber jack with beaver boots.

Oh well...like I said this is just being on the level and not meant to inflame. You are entitled to your own opinion as we all are.

Fair enough, and as you just seen in this post, I also attempted to be on the level with you as well. (Just like the member from Germany you commented about) You presented your opinions and views about me in a somewhat decent level, and I attempted my best to explain better my positions, that is all one can do.

All I would request next time is when I present a post or comment that you may feel is negative about the US, please pay attention to it being only towards the topic in question or what was said in a topic.

I have no real hatred for any one country or people of a country.

The majority of any hatred I have in relation to the US, is usually geared towards George Bush, his Administration and the US government in general to date. I realize how much they screw you guys over and have taken what your country was (Which was good) to something which I personally feel is a shell of what it was and that alone pisses me off.

But that is not anti-american.... if anything, that's pro. I've been waiting for you guys to pull a revolution anyday now and I'd be right there to help along if I could. (But it's not my country to interfeer).
 

I think not

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I just explained in detail the differences I see between both countries.... you can either quote those points I made and refute them if you please, or STFU and stop attempting to tell me what I am saying.

Praxius,

Whether or not you are anti-American, it doesn't make a hell of a difference to me, but don't sit behind your keyboard and tell me you're spreading around CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. Constructive criticism is analyzing a problem and providing an opinion on how to fix it, not comparing the "ills" of one country to the "success" of another in a condescending manner. You have done this repeatedly throughout your posts in this thread. You want constructive criticism? Offer a solution, because comparing ie. our health care "systems" when you rank just above ours is not exactly constructive.

BTW, don't ever tell me to STFU, you have no such authority around here. If you don't want people telling what you're saying, then turn off the sarcasm and condescending tones.
 

EagleSmack

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But please, show me where I called all US Soldiers pigs and I will correct myself. I have a funny feeling this is yet another example where I was taken out of context.

I have to correct myself...

But this was your direct quote when you were talking about that silly notion of the US invading Canada that seems to pop up in here every so often.

Here is your quote...

If the US did try to invade Canada, I sure wouldn't mind taking a sniper rifle to a few pig headed neo-nazi invaders. (oops there I go again with that rude Canadian attitude... I'm terribly sorry)

I added the blue font.
 

EagleSmack

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Oh, so you didn't notice the difference in communication between us did you? He responded maturely and I listened fairly to what he had to say, as he did to I. He explained his position clearly and I did the same.


Oh, and if you continued reading through that thread you mentioned, you would notice that after I took more time to read through his posts, I responded directly as I would have anybody else..... but since he didn't give me attitude, I responded as directly, yet as fair as possible.



If you are trying to get an emotional appeal from me based on things that occured long before I was born, then you have a lot of work to do.

Here you have a guy from Germany who are pretty much sitting on their hands when they fully expected hundreds of thousands of Americans, British, Canadians, etc to die at a moments notice during the days of the Soviet Union and you coddled him. But that was not the whole point, you took the opportunity to rip the US and say we are carpet bombing villages. Cut it out! That is not even fact. We both know that most of the NATO nations are trying to stay out of the fight and Germany could put a lot of weight in and help if they stopped playing Foosball and moved down south to help out.
 
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tracy

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http://www.cis.org/articles/2007/back1007.html





http://www.cis.org/articles/2007/back1007.html

I think it's safe to say the tired and poor are still welcomed on our shores.

From your first source: "Overall, nearly one in three immigrants is an illegal alien. Half of Mexican and Central American immigrants and one-third of South American immigrants are illegal"

You can't be counting the number of illegal immigrants and then say your government's policy is still to accept poor or uneducated people. Those people are here illegally, so by definition they aren't really wanted. How mych of that 1/3 contribute to the number that haven't graduated high school. If we wanted to welcome the uneducated and the poor, amnesty would be a popular political solution and judging by all the debates it doesn't seem to be.
 

I think not

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From your first source: "Overall, nearly one in three immigrants is an illegal alien. Half of Mexican and Central American immigrants and one-third of South American immigrants are illegal"

You can't be counting the number of illegal immigrants and then say your government's policy is still to accept poor or uneducated people. Those people are here illegally, so by definition they aren't really wanted. How mych of that 1/3 contribute to the number that haven't graduated high school. If we wanted to welcome the uneducated and the poor, amnesty would be a popular political solution and judging by all the debates it doesn't seem to be.

Tracy, put two and two together and don't isolate comments. You read that but you failed to take under consideration the part which refers to 33% being under welfare. Illegal immigrants don't recieve any welfare programs, very few slip through the cracks and do. So I believe I have proven to you its not only wealthy that come here.

The statistics are based on data derived from the INS, I'll dig up that document for you as well. The Center for Immigration compiles both illegal and legal to make political statements. You can beat it up all you want, the fact will remain that is not the wealthy and educated coming into the country, the door is open for everyone.

When I find the data from INS, I'll post it for you.
 

karrie

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Tracy, put two and two together and don't isolate comments. You read that but you failed to take under consideration the part which refers to 33% being under welfare. Illegal immigrants don't recieve any welfare programs, very few slip through the cracks and do. So I believe I have proven to you its not only wealthy that come here.

it doesn't say that 1/3 are on welfare though ITN, it says that 1/3 are aided by at least one major welfare program. If the use of emergency rooms and clinics by illegal immigrants counts as access to a welfare program (and I'd assume it does), then it doesn't mean 1/3 of legal immigrants are on welfare. It can still easily be discussing a largely illegal number of immigrants.
 

I think not

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it doesn't say that 1/3 are on welfare though ITN, it says that 1/3 are aided by at least one major welfare program. If the use of emergency rooms and clinics by illegal immigrants counts as access to a welfare program (and I'd assume it does), then it doesn't mean 1/3 of legal immigrants are on welfare. It can still easily be discussing a largely illegal number of immigrants.

No karrie, emergency services do not constitute a "welfare program", your assumption is incorrect. To be eligible for a welfare program you have to get approved by an authority having jurisdiction.

Tracy,

In 2006, there were 30.9 million foreign born age 25 and older. Of those, 26.7 percent had a bachelor's or higher degree, while 32.0 percent lacked a high school diploma. Among native-born adults age 25 and older, 27.0 percent of 165 million were college graduates and only 12.9 percent did not have a high school diploma.

http://factfinder.census.gov/home/saff/main.html?_lang=en

I really don't see why it's so hard to believe it's not only the wealthy and educated that come to our shores. This has been true since the US was founded, and continues to be true today. I'll be the first to say INS PREFERS someone educated and wealthy, but that doesn't mean we shut the doors to everyone else, nor does it mean the uneducated or poor are a fraction of immigration.
 

RomSpaceKnight

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I'm not at all surprised that 30% or so of immigrants have not completed high school. Why do you think they come to Canada? So there kids can get the benefits of a good education and way of life. Most immigrants are not thinking of themselves. They do it for their children. The parents, unable to speak English with barely and education take menial jobs. Their children grow to be educated, English speaking westerners. The parents have taken a huge risk. Left all behind for a new start and a better tomorrow for the children. And some folk look down on them. Hypocrits. Somewhere in all of our ancestors someone made that same choice. My parents did. We came from England but their reason was the same. A better life with more opportunities than 1960's England had to offer. Anyone who disses immigrants because they are relatively uneducated, not fluent in English and mopping floors, driving a cab or working at a minimum wage job is a pretentious snob and bigots. These folk are the hardest working risk taking persons in the whole country. We should feel proud they came here and do our utmost to make them feel at home. In a generation their kids who probably inherit their folks work ethic and frugality are the next generation of doctors, lawyers and engineers. Young and Bloor is not all of Canada. Discrimination and bigotry mixed with media looking for a story will distort images so all who are not WASP are lazy drug dealing pimps and *****s. I personally do not know a native who is a drunk, a balck who is a gangster, a Muslim who is a terrorist or an Italian who is Mafioso.
 

tracy

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Tracy,



http://factfinder.census.gov/home/saff/main.html?_lang=en

I really don't see why it's so hard to believe it's not only the wealthy and educated that come to our shores. This has been true since the US was founded, and continues to be true today. I'll be the first to say INS PREFERS someone educated and wealthy, but that doesn't mean we shut the doors to everyone else, nor does it mean the uneducated or poor are a fraction of immigration.

I don't understand what part of that proves me wrong. I didn't say only the wealthy and educated come to our shores. I specifically mentionned that we take refugees. That doesn't change the fact that immigration heavily favors the educated. There is nothing wrong with it. I just don't see any reason to pretend we are still open like we were 60 years ago. I'm going through the process and there are basically 3 ways to get a greencard for me: 1. marry an American 2. Be a refugee 3. Be sponsored by my employer in a field that can't find enough American workers. 1 and 2 aren't too realistic for most people, so unless you have family that can sponsor you, you're pretty much left with #3 (unless you're from one of the "diversity countries" elligible for the lotto). #3 takes some form of education.
 

I think not

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I don't understand what part of that proves me wrong.

I'll try and explain it from where I am sitting.

I find this notion of American immigration pretty unbelievable too. As someone who deals with immigration, trust me, they aren't super eager to get the tired, poor, wretched, homeless huddled masses anymore. They take them in small numbers still (as does Canada, England, Australia, etc.).

Over thirty percent isn't a small number tracy.

However, just like most countries, America's immigration policies focus on attracting the wealthy, the well educated, the skilled and those yearning to invest in your economy. Here in California, the poor are mostly coming illegaly.

One more time, over 30% haven't finished high school, I don't recall the figure of those that have finished high school but never had secondary education, but I wil find that also.

Over 30% receive at least one form of welfare program, which obviously doesn't include illegal immigrants, and you know as well as I do, emergency services (since Karrie brought it up) isn't considered a form of welfare program.

And btw, you don't have to be an immigrant to invest in the US economy. Perhaps things are different in California, but California isn't the United States, and given the proximity to Mexico, I would agree it may be the situation where you live, but it's not universal.

I don't know why people feel the need to paint America as evil, but I don't feel the need to drink the koolaid and believe in its mythology either. It's a nice place. It isn't perfect, but it's pretty nice and I don't see why that's such a bad thing.

No we're not perfect, not by a long shot. But misconceptions don't help matters much and it has nothing to do with koolaid.

I didn't say only the wealthy and educated come to our shores. I specifically mentionned that we take refugees. That doesn't change the fact that immigration heavily favors the educated.

Refugees are a fraction of immigration, to my knowledge it hasn't exceeded 5%. And no, immigration does not favor the educated, it PREFERS the educated, and there is a vast difference.

There is nothing wrong with it. I just don't see any reason to pretend we are still open like we were 60 years ago.

We're open, we have jut reduced the numbers, that's all.

I'm going through the process and there are basically 3 ways to get a greencard for me: 1. marry an American 2. Be a refugee 3. Be sponsored by my employer in a field that can't find enough American workers. 1 and 2 aren't too realistic for most people, so unless you have family that can sponsor you, you're pretty much left with #3 (unless you're from one of the "diversity countries" elligible for the lotto). #3 takes some form of education.

Diversity countries are not many, certainly you would never qualify as there are more than 50,000 immigratng from Canada to the US every year. One way or another tracy over one million people obtain a "green card" every year. I don't profess to know the details of immigration, but I know numbers.
 

Toro

Senate Member
You know, the more time I spend down here, the less I believe that. I was spoonfed that Canadian identity thing too (aka "We're so different from Americans. Don't compare us to Americans. I mean come on, we have universal healthcare!!! We're really different from them!"). Since I moved down here, I've found we're much more alike than we care to admit for some reason. I don't know why the Canadian identity is still defined by how we're different from Americans. I think there are some differences, but they aren't nearly as pronounced as people like to think.

Exactly

Here are the differences

- No universal medicare.
- No listening to Quebec complaining all the time
- No whining Premiers conferences
- No hockey as the lead on the sports networks
- The money is a different colour.
- Its warmer.

For day to day living, thats about it.

The day to day living experience in England is 10x greater for a Canadian than living in America, and the differences between England and Canada aren't particularly great.
 

tracy

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So it boils down to the difference between favoring and preffering and how big we consider large? I don't see a big difference between favor and preffer, that's just me. I also don't consider 30% to be high (when talking about high school education), especially when I don't know how many of them are actually here legally. It's true a fair number receive welfare at some point, but that does include WIC and MediCal (or other states' equivalents). All they have to do to get those are pop out a baby or get sick while they're here. It's what keeps me in a job:)
 

I think not

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So it boils down to the difference between favoring and preffering and how big we consider large? I don't see a big difference between favor and preffer, that's just me. I also don't consider 30% to be high (when talking about high school education), especially when I don't know how many of them are actually here legally. It's true a fair number receive welfare at some point, but that does include WIC and MediCal (or other states' equivalents). All they have to do to get those are pop out a baby or get sick while they're here. It's what keeps me in a job:)

Tracy, you obviously don't bother going to the links I post, so I think it's pointless to continue this conversation. I already showed you how 30% is legal, but you refuse to accept it. Plus there is a vast legal difference between prefers and favors.

I respect your personal experiences, but it doesn't necessarily represent the norm.
 

tracy

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Tracy, you obviously don't bother going to the links I post, so I think it's pointless to continue this conversation. I already showed you how 30% is legal, but you refuse to accept it. Plus there is a vast legal difference between prefers and favors.

I respect your personal experiences, but it doesn't necessarily represent the norm.

I did read the post. I would assume the 33% whose households (not 33% of immigrants by your own source) have received some form of welfare are all legal. I would doubt we seek out immigrants who will go on welfare, I have a feeling those people like Americans just unexpectedly need it. I didn't see anything that would make me assume the number without a high school education was comprised only of legal immigrants though.
 
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