Why immigrate to the US?

[no color]

I beg to differ: Canada was a destination for many good and upstanding people opposed to the new republic born in the south. They came here because they didn't want to be part of that culture or were driven out because they couldn't be. Many people that came here were still loyal to the crown or didn't want to leave the British. This is a huge distinction and one that shouldn't be overlooked. The very character of the original Canadians was very different than those of the "Americans" and I would argue still is.

I've lived in the southern US for the better part of a decade and can conclude that we are essentially the same in language, culture and values (Canada and the US). Yes, the US is more patriotic and folks there are generally friendlier (this is especially true with customer service). However when you look at the big picture, we share the same lifestyle.

 

[tracy]

Another thing that makes Canada different from the US, is our global image of tolerance. One example would be the Underground Railroad. Another example would be our approach to becoming our own nation (Didn't require to get all gun-ho about it) We don't invade other countries and fight based on principles, not personal gain (Afghanistan was already invaded by the US before we arrived to clean up) Heck even the US invaded Canada once apon a time, and although we pushed them back well beyond their borders and we captured more territory in the US at the time, we left and both sides agreed to the previous borders prior to the invasion.....

There are a few things similar between Canada and the US, mainly technology, media/entertainment, but government, historical backgrounds, medical, overall outlook on life (Being happy in general / being rich to be happy) and many other aspects when you put them into play, make both countries quite different. If anything, we're more similar to the UK or Australia then the US.

I just think too many people tend to compare the trivial things and forget the rest based on our accents.

Actually, Canada did have a war of independence, the only difference was we lost and Britain won. Canadians seem to forget about the rebellions of 1837-1838 that happened in both upper and lower Canada. We were just as gung ho as those crazy Americans had been decades before. I don't know how a military loss leading us to trying a more gentle approach is anything other than pragmatism. Had we won, we wouldn't have needed to be so nice and asked to become a country.

Our foreign policy is different more because of practical reasons than our ideology (a country as small as ours can't have the global policies the US has). The idea of Canadians as peacekeepers is really more myth than reality nowadays. We sent soldiers to Afghanistan because we needed them to act as soldiers. Canadians aren't just there building schools and hospitals. We're there killing people too. Our global image of tolerance has been tarnished by our involvement there and in places like Somalia (we quickly forget Canadian commited atrocities... much more interesting to talk about Abu Ghraib). The underground railroad was mainly run by people in the US, which would seem to show they were similar to those in Canada who wanted to provide black slaves with freedom.

People think medical is so different and though it's managed differently, Americans can't be refused medically necessary services any more than Canadians can. They can't go to a doctor for something unecessary without some form of payment, but if it's necessary every hospital emergency room in the country has to treat them. It isn't a huge difference IMO. The Canadian system as we know it today is also VERY young. My parents lived in a time when you had to pay the doctor in cash too. I don't believe the hype that our health care system defines us as a nation when it came into existence less than 50 years ago.

 

[karrie]

People think medical is so different and though it's managed differently, Americans can't be refused medically necessary services any more than Canadians can. They can't go to a doctor for something unecessary without some form of payment, but if it's necessary every hospital emergency room in the country has to treat them. It isn't a huge difference IMO. The Canadian system as we know it today is also VERY young. My parents lived in a time when you had to pay the doctor in cash too. I don't believe the hype that our health care system defines us as a nation when it came into existence less than 50 years ago.

Nicely put Tracy. It's refreshing to hear a less slanted view on it.

 

[#juan]

To try and simplify. It is not a simple thing.

http://www.canadian-healthcare.org/


Canada's health care system is a group of socialized health insurance plans that provides coverage to all Canadian citizens. It is publicly funded and administered on a provincial or territorial basis, within guidelines set by the federal government.


http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005/08/29/050829fa_fact



Dept. of Public Policy
The Moral-Hazard Myth
The bad idea behind our failed health-care system.
by Malcolm Gladwell August 29, 2005


Tooth decay begins, typically, when debris becomes trapped between the teeth and along the ridges and in the grooves of the molars. The food rots. It becomes colonized with bacteria. The bacteria feeds off sugars in the mouth and forms an acid that begins to eat away at the enamel of the teeth. Slowly, the bacteria works its way through to the dentin, the inner structure, and from there the cavity begins to blossom three-dimensionally, spreading inward and sideways. When the decay reaches the pulp tissue, the blood vessels, and the nerves that serve the tooth, the pain starts—an insistent throbbing. The tooth turns brown. It begins to lose its hard structure, to the point where a dentist can reach into a cavity with a hand instrument and scoop out the decay. At the base of the tooth, the bacteria mineralizes into tartar, which begins to irritate the gums. They become puffy and bright red and start to recede, leaving more and more of the tooth’s root exposed. When the infection works its way down to the bone, the structure holding the tooth in begins to collapse altogether.

Several years ago, two Harvard researchers, Susan Starr Sered and Rushika Fernandopulle, set out to interview people without health-care coverage for a book they were writing, “Uninsured in America.” They talked to as many kinds of people as they could find, .”

 

[#juan]

The problem I have, is that Americans could have the best health care system in the world, but they don't by a wide margin.

 

[I think not]

There are a few things similar between Canada and the US, mainly technology, media/entertainment, but government, historical backgrounds, medical, overall outlook on life (Being happy in general / being rich to be happy) and many other aspects when you put them into play, make both countries quite different. If anything, we're more similar to the UK or Australia then the US.

Is that right? I recall a situation where Canadians rushed into the US to buy merchandise when your dollar became par with ours, to the extent it made headlines on BOTH sides of the border. Yeah, you don't need money to be happy. :roll:

 

[I think not]

To try and simplify. It is not a simple thing.

http://www.canadian-healthcare.org/


Canada's health care system is a group of socialized health insurance plans that provides coverage to all Canadian citizens. It is publicly funded and administered on a provincial or territorial basis, within guidelines set by the federal government.


http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005/08/29/050829fa_fact



Dept. of Public Policy
The Moral-Hazard Myth
The bad idea behind our failed health-care system.
by Malcolm Gladwell August 29, 2005


Tooth decay begins, typically, when debris becomes trapped between the teeth and along the ridges and in the grooves of the molars. The food rots. It becomes colonized with bacteria. The bacteria feeds off sugars in the mouth and forms an acid that begins to eat away at the enamel of the teeth. Slowly, the bacteria works its way through to the dentin, the inner structure, and from there the cavity begins to blossom three-dimensionally, spreading inward and sideways. When the decay reaches the pulp tissue, the blood vessels, and the nerves that serve the tooth, the pain starts—an insistent throbbing. The tooth turns brown. It begins to lose its hard structure, to the point where a dentist can reach into a cavity with a hand instrument and scoop out the decay. At the base of the tooth, the bacteria mineralizes into tartar, which begins to irritate the gums. They become puffy and bright red and start to recede, leaving more and more of the tooth’s root exposed. When the infection works its way down to the bone, the structure holding the tooth in begins to collapse altogether.

Several years ago, two Harvard researchers, Susan Starr Sered and Rushika Fernandopulle, set out to interview people without health-care coverage for a book they were writing, “Uninsured in America.” They talked to as many kinds of people as they could find, .”

Hmmmmm.....do you guys have universal dental coverage?

 

[I think not]

Walter, this is why people immigrate to America.

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

One million people a year Walter become legal residents of the US. The fringe left can't wrap it around their heads how this is so. Which is a bonus really, considering Praxius self congratulatory post that Canadians are benevolent, and Americans, well are scum.

Perhaps #juan is right, our "standards" are low. May it always be that way.​

 

[#juan]

Hmmmmm.....do you guys have universal dental coverage?

My pension covers extended medical as well as dental but my post was not about dental care except as an analogical, or figurative reference. Sorry if the post was above your head.

 

[I think not]

My pension covers extended medical as well as dental but my post was not about dental care except as an analogical, or figurative reference. Sorry if the post was above your head.

No not at all, I am accustomed to your meager attempts at contempt.

I just found it amusing half the article is about something Canadians don't have either and yet you found it "approporiate" to post it.

 

[tracy]

Walter, this is why people immigrate to America.

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" ​

One million people a year Walter become legal residents of the US. The fringe left can't wrap it around their heads how this is so. Which is a bonus really, considering Praxius self congratulatory post that Canadians are benevolent, and Americans, well are scum.​

Perhaps #juan is right, our "standards" are low. May it always be that way.​

I find this notion of American immigration pretty unbelievable too. As someone who deals with immigration, trust me, they aren't super eager to get the tired, poor, wretched, homeless huddled masses anymore. They take them in small numbers still (as does Canada, England, Australia, etc.). However, just like most countries, America's immigration policies focus on attracting the wealthy, the well educated, the skilled and those yearning to invest in your economy. Here in California, the poor are mostly coming illegaly.

I don't know why people feel the need to paint America as evil, but I don't feel the need to drink the koolaid and believe in its mythology either. It's a nice place. It isn't perfect, but it's pretty nice and I don't see why that's such a bad thing.

 

[I think not]

I find this notion of American immigration pretty unbelievable too. As someone who deals with immigration, trust me, they aren't super eager to get the tired, poor, wretched, homeless huddled masses anymore. They take them in small numbers still (as does Canada, England, Australia, etc.). However, just like most countries, America's immigration policies focus on attracting the wealthy, the well educated, the skilled and those yearning to invest in your economy. Here in California, the poor are mostly coming illegaly.

I don't know why people feel the need to paint America as evil, but I don't feel the need to drink the koolaid and believe in its mythology either. It's a nice place. It isn't perfect, but it's pretty nice and I don't see why that's such a bad thing.

What mythology tracy? How do you think we have swelled from a few hundred thousand to over 300 million in just over two centuries?

Your data is wrong if you think the wealthy and educated come here only in droves. Wrong.

EDIT: Over 1/3 of immigrants haven't even finished high school, I wouldn't consider that a small portion.

 

[china]

Praxius

Yeah, I'm not really Anti-American, I'm just anti-Bush, anti-Bush Administration, Anti-Forign Policy, Anti-Cultural, Anti-Iraq War, Anti-Iran Threat Talking, Anti-Missle Defense, Anti-Republican...

...

You forgot to add:
I am Canadian .

 

[tracy]

What mythology tracy? How do you think we have swelled from a few hundred thousand to over 300 million in just over two centuries?

Your data is wrong if you think the wealthy and educated come here only in droves. Wrong.

EDIT: Over 1/3 of immigrants haven't even finished high school, I wouldn't consider that a small portion.

Perhaps mythology wasn't a great word. How about history? It isn't the present.

How are they measuring that 1/3 (as in are they counting every immigrant, legal and illegal in the last 50+ years)? Are they counting people who come on work permits as immigrants or not? Do you honestly think 1/3 of the people entering this country legally this year will have not finished high school?

 

[no color]

Do you honestly think 1/3 of the people entering this country legally this year will have not finished high school?

The answer is Yes. I've lived in the southern US for the better part of a decade (yes legally, I had a 10 year green card) and noticed many legal immigrants moving to the US with no or very little English skills let alone a high school education. Example, the US hires many legal agricultural workers who eventually obtain their residency. I personally knew one guy who immigrated from Mexico to work for US WEST (now called QWEST), a phone company. They trained him to fix and install phone equipment and his English skills were very limited. He subsequently got his green card. Let us not forget the thousands of immigrants who come legally to the US either through asylum or as refugees. Many of these also have no high school education. Not to mention the immigrants who also come legally every year from countries that would otherwise have low immigration numbers to the US. Not every one of those has completed high school.

I would think the number of legal immigrants with no high school education would be closer to 50% rather than 33%. A good chunk of that 50% comes from many of the legal Mexican immigrants who move to the US every year.

 

[I think not]

Perhaps mythology wasn't a great word. How about history? It isn't the present.

How are they measuring that 1/3 (as in are they counting every immigrant, legal and illegal in the last 50+ years)? Are they counting people who come on work permits as immigrants or not? Do you honestly think 1/3 of the people entering this country legally this year will have not finished high school?

I don't think it tracy, I know it for a fact. They do keep data on it, and I will dig it up and gladly present it to you. I have followed immigration statistics for quite sometime. Whereas I acknoledge they will not let homeless people in the country, immigration does not look at at an immigrants education level whn making a decision, I see it in immigrants every day in New York City, I don't need a boo to tell me anything.

 

[karrie]

EDIT: Over 1/3 of immigrants haven't even finished high school, I wouldn't consider that a small portion.

lol.... ITN, all that tells me definitively is that 1/3 of immigrants are likely children. And it doesn't really make any solid statement regarding their wealth. Plenty of people who didn't finish highschool go on to be wealthy.

 

[Praxius]

Is that right? I recall a situation where Canadians rushed into the US to buy merchandise when your dollar became par with ours, to the extent it made headlines on BOTH sides of the border. Yeah, you don't need money to be happy. :roll:

We are of course generally speaking in this topic.... trying to label everybody with one paint brush doesn't work in this situation.

I wasn't one of those fools who ran over the border at the first chance, because I knew better.

By the time you get your car to the border, wait to get through, get your money exchanged to go buy things in the US, get your product, pay for it, then drive all the way back to the border, claim your items and make sure you can travel back across the border with those products, and possibly pay the duty on those products (Where required) and drive back home with the product, not to mention the price of gas to travel there and back, exactly how much is one really saving?

(Depends on what you're buying)

But regardless, people in the US have been doing the same thing going to Canada for things cheaper for the last couple of decades, in fact this trend isn't just isolated to Canada and the US, so I see no major connection in that aspect.

When one lives in a society where currency is kind of manditory for survival and that crap, currency to a level is a given. But when it comes to Insurance companies, mortgage companies, the government, health care, and many other sectors, their hidden policy for the most part if profit first, health and needs second. This exists to a degree in Canada as well, but not to the rampant distruction of what I have been seeing and hearing about in the US in the last couple of years.

That's the difference I see when it comes to Capitalism. It's almost a rampant plague in the US for those running companies which are supposed to help people in their times of need, to easily turn a blind eye to the suffering and actual job they are supposed to provide, all for the sake of their own personal profit and status in life.

Gun control would be another aspect. In Canada, most considder the availability of firearms is a problem for street crimes and the sort, while in the US, most considder the firearm's availability to solution and their god-given right to own a firearm to protect themselves from others who wish to do harm to them (Or defend your country in a formed Militia, depending on how you read it) Heck..... when a school shooting occurs, and the topic hit forums I went to in the past, the average Canadian poster would have mentioned more restrictions, more communication and help for those people is required, increase security, find a solution to the problem.

In the US, what were most of the solutions?

Allow the students to carry firearms into classes to protect them from potiential shooters, as they would be quicker to respond then the police. (I don't suppose anybody sees a problem with that)

Don't forget about Public Education differences.

What about the fact that most in the US, including the current president, still believe Creationism over Evolution.

Then there's the whole mentality of avoiding the on-going problems in the US and the war, where many will still stay the course, regardless of the actual evidence and situations available for research...... but will also remain proud, and claim that they're still the greatest country in the world and all that hoopla, when there are clearly major issues within the country that need addressing. I am fully aware of the problems facing Canada and us as citizens of the nation, and I try my best to keep on top of it all...... But I am not about to start boasting Canada as the greatest country in the world.... no country is.

There are plenty of things which make Canada and the US similar, but no more or less then any other country, and there are plenty of major differences between the two to make them very different.

And when it comes to people getting the help they require in the US in relation to medical conditions.... check out Sicko and tell me again that the hospitals in the US are much like those here in Canada.

 

[I think not]

lol.... ITN, all that tells me definitively is that 1/3 of immigrants are likely children.

Of adult immigrants, 31 percent have not completed high school, compared to 8 percent of natives. Since 2000, immigration increased the number of workers without a high school diploma by 14 percent, and all other workers by 3 percent.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2007/back1007.html

And it doesn't really make any solid statement regarding their wealth. Plenty of people who didn't finish highschool go on to be wealthy.

The proportion of immigrant-headed households using at least one major welfare program is 33 percent, compared to 19 percent for native households.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2007/back1007.html

I think it's safe to say the tired and poor are still welcomed on our shores.

 

[Praxius]

One million people a year Walter become legal residents of the US. The fringe left can't wrap it around their heads how this is so. Which is a bonus really, considering Praxius self congratulatory post that Canadians are benevolent, and Americans, well are scum.

Then again maybe you should peel your eyes open a bit farther and learn to read a bit better.

I never claimed anything remotely towards Canada being benevolent and those in the US as scum... if that's what you interpreted, then that's your own fault, not mine. I am pointing out the differences in which I see.

Don't like it? Don't care.... welcome to the wonderful world of Opinions. There's another lovely thing about the differences in culture. You mention one remotely negative thing about the US, and all of a sudden it's interpreted as they're all scum compared to us and you're anti-american all of a sudden.

Last I check, it's called "Constructive Criticism."

Added:

And don't forget, 83.62% of all statistics are made up on the spot.