What would you do if the US invaded?

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
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There is a 99.9% chance that the scenario you mentioned would never happen, but just in case it did happen the following would happen. "Nothing", maybe a small active Canadian independence movement would start up, some minor skirmishing by radicals on both sides then years of negotiation. Without outside help Canada as it is known today would cease to exist.


After a little more thought, Canada would cease to exist on the day the U.S. invaded. If someone steps in to help, Canada it is gone, if a country big enough to intervene like China or Russia, the Canada we know now would still be gone, just another satellite of who ever conquered or helped them. The only scenario worth thing of is that someone other than the U.S. invades Canada, the U.S, assists Canada and Canada as an independent country goes on.

Seriously what you propose is a ridiculous scenario.

I'm not sure that's true. I for one have no interest in being an American, and would consider the country occupied, and i believe there would be an active resistance. The thing to remember is that if Canada were attacked it would be under the auspices of a tyrant and an invader. One whose same character would be imposed on its own people, as do all tyrannies.

You might think that is an anathema of American democracy. But there are 2 strains that exist in the American consciousness. One of Republic and one of Empire.

It was Imperial America that took Florida, Texas, California and the American Southwest by force arms, expelling indigents. All of our alliances are with the Republic of the United States, with the Empire of Pax Americana there are no treaties of any value.

By nature they respect no borders and crave tribute. None of the agreements would be any more valid than those held by the Indians with their understandings that the U.S. would not expand west of the Mississippi.

There is a protective element in our cause here. The American Imperial character has never managed to gain true precedence over the Republic. But it would be naive to say that this does not exist.

In fact if you look to the history of Republics and Empire, and specifically Rome, which in structure and architecture Washington has emulated, then tyranny finally triumphed over the democracy.. and immediately Rome started to dissolve from within, until the barbarians finally breeched the gates of the city, and Empire collapsed.

I can look at other countries, Poland, Finland, the Balkans, the Benelux countries who have throughout their histories been in the shadow of aggressive imperial aspirations, yet have continued to reserrect themselves as sovereign states.

Not only do i think the idea of Canada would sustain itself under American occupation, but i believe the nation state itself would ultimately prevail.
 
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earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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There's a reason why the US has never invaded a country with a McDonalds. Its the same reason they never invaded a country with Starbucks, KFC, Walmart..... and a good clue about who really runs the US.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
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We did actually, The War of 1812. We being:
Date June 18, 1812 – March 23, 1815 Location Eastern and Central North America, Atlantic, Pacific and Indian Oceans Result
Treaty of Ghent
Status quo ante bellum

Belligerents:
United States
Choctaw
Cherokee
Creek allies
~~~~~~~~
British Empire:
United Kingdom
Canada
Shawnee
Creek Red Sticks
Ojibway
Chickamauga
Fox
Iroquois Miami
Mingo
Ottawa
Kickapoo
Delaware (Lenape)
Mascouten
Potawatomi
Sauk
Wyandot
---------------
Commanders and leaders:
James Madison
Henry Dearborn
Jacob Brown
Winfield Scott
Andrew Jackson
William Henry Harrison
William Hull
~~~~~~~~~~~
Lord Liverpool
George Prévost
Isaac Brock
Roger Hale Sheaffe
Gordon Drummond
Robert Ross
Edward Pakenham
Charles de Salaberry
Tecumseh
-----------------
Strength:
United States
Regular Army:
— 7,000 (at start of war);
— 35,800 (at war's end)
Rangers: 3,049
Militia: 458,463 *
United States Navy,
United States Marines &
Revenue Cutter Service (at start of war):
Frigates: 6
— Other vessels: 14

Native allies:
125 Choctaw,
(unknown others) [2]
~~~~~~~~~~~~
British Empire
British Army:
— 5,200 (at start of war);
— 48,160 (at war's end)
Prov. regulars: 10,000
Provincial Militia: 4,000
Royal Navy &
Royal Marines:

Ships of the Line: 11
Frigates: 34
— Other vessels: 52
Provincial Marine ‡ :
— Ships: 9 (at start of war)
Native allies:
10,000 Casualties and losses 2,260 killed in action. 4,505 wounded.
17,000 (est.) died from disease. 1,600 killed in action. 3,679 wounded.
3,321 died from disease. * Some militias only operated in their own regions.
Killed in action
‡ A locally raised coastal protection and seminaval force on the Great Lakes.

Stats source: War of 1812 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



This is all neat stuff. Too bad there weren't any Canadians that burned Washington.

As I have said many times in this forum. The troops that burned Washington were British Regulars that were fresh from the Pennisular Wars with France. They were dispatched from Bermuda and went directly to the Chesapeake. Canadian Militia were not present... at all. In addition the British that did burn down Washington were subsequently beaten at the Battle of Baltimore and sent packing.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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I'm not sure that's true. I for one have no interest in being an American, and would consider the country occupied, and i believe there would be an active resistance. The thing to remember is that if Canada were attacked it would be under the auspices of a tyrant and an invader. One whose same character would be imposed on its own people, as do all tyrannies.

You're making a lot of assumptions here. the Op never explains why the US attacks Canada. Let's suppose Canada tried to invade the US, or allied itself with another country using Canada as a base for attacks against the US. In that case, Canada would become a legitimate US target. Then the question would be why Canada chose to ally itself against the US in the first place. If the reason is legitimate, then of course I'd fight on the Canadian side against US aggression. But if it turned out Canada had become a fascist state and the US invasion was a defensive act intent solely to destroy the Canadian government (notice I say government and not country) and then pull out, then I'd likely sympathize with the US side.

With so little information in the OP, we can only speculate. In fact, let's suppose the US were taken over by fascists that then decided to attack Canada. In that case again, it's not likely to be a simple war between Canada and the US, seeing that many Americans could end up fighting on the Canadian side against their own government. Make no mistake about it, while nationalists will fight for their country right or wrong, patriots will fight for what they believe is right, and for the best moral interests of their country which sometimes might mean fighting against their government for the good of their country. So if the US were ever taken by fascism, while US nationalists would be quick to join the US army to fight Canada, US patriots would likely join the Canadian forces... again assuming Canada was not taken over by fascists too. Again, more speculation. There are so many unanswered questions in the OP that the whole thing is speculation.

You might think that is an anathema of American democracy. But there are 2 strains that exist in the American consciousness. One of Republic and one of Empire.

And there is no imperialist strain in Canada? I'm not saying Canada is not an imperialist state or that all Canadians are imperialists. What I am saying though is that imperialist beliefs are present in the minds of at least some Canadians.

It was Imperial America that took Florida, Texas, California and the American Southwest by force arms, expelling indigents. All of our alliances are with the Republic of the United States, with the Empire of Pax Americana there are no treaties of any value.

You're absolutely right. And Canada sent troops to help the British in the Boer Wars. We participated in building the British Empire. Consider too that the principles of Apartheid were based on the Canadian Reservation system. I'm not saying just that they have similarities, but rather that those who'd developed the policy of Apartheid were in fact familiar with the Canadian reservation system and applied that knowledge to develop Apartheid in South Africa, which was really just a more extreme version of our reservation system. Consider too that Canada via the Canadian International Development Agency is in fact engaged in cultural imperialism abroad too, especially in its contracts with a particular Canadian contractor. I forget the name of the contractor, but must admit that I was shocked to find textbooks in Chinese bookstores funded by CIDA, that were clearly intent on cultural imperialism. Your hard earned dollars at work.

By nature they respect no borders and crave tribute. None of the agreements would be any more valid than those held by the Indians with their understandings that the U.S. would not expand west of the Mississippi.

And Canada has honoured its treaties?

There is a protective element in our cause here. The American Imperial character has never managed to gain true precedence over the Republic. But it would be naive to say that this does not exist.

Again, you're making many assumptions about the OP... nless you've read the novel already?

In fact if you look to the history of Republics and Empire, and specifically Rome, which in structure and architecture Washington has emulated, then tyranny finally triumphed over the democracy.. and immediately Rome started to dissolve from within, until the barbarians finally breeched the gates of the city, and Empire collapsed.

Yes, and the US empire is indeed collapsing. But let's not think for one moment that there is not an imperialist element in Canada.

I can look at other countries, Poland, Finland, the Balkans, the Benelux countries who have throughout their histories been in the shadow of aggressive imperial aspirations, yet have continued to reserrect themselves as sovereign states.

They were normally not aggressor nations, and so were less likely to attrct long-term hatred against them.

Not only do i think the idea of Canada would sustain itself under American occupation, but i believe the nation state itself would ultimately prevail.

Again, that would depend on various factors. The US would be stupid to occupy Canada long-term. It would just mean more casualties on both sides and increased hatred of and fear of the US in Canada and abroad. That said, a quick attack aimed at destroying the Canadian government and retracting immediately afterwards could be defensible depending on circumstances, if let's say Canada itself were taken over by fascism or extreme imperialism, etc. And of course the same could be said in reverse if the US ever fell to imperialism etc.
 
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EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
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I haven't read the novel, but the link you provided does mention it's a spoof. So I take it it might be intended as a humorous story mocking misunderstandings between countries caused by the media leading to war.

.

I will be honest and say that I did follow a link and read portions of his book. It is full of the old sterotypes. Yanks bad, Canadians good, 1812. In fact he even had that phone call from an American to a Canadian in whereas the Yank displays his ignorance about Canada and is out smarted by the Canadian.

"Hey... this is Canada? Oh... I know a guy named George from Canada... do you know him?" -Yank from Mississippi

"Sure... everyone knows George." - Canadian on the other end.

This guy is a literary genius! not

Machjo... one of the book critics calls it a spoof but believe me, the way it is written was not intended to be a spoof.
 
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Risus

Genius
May 24, 2006
5,373
25
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Toronto
This is all neat stuff. Too bad there weren't any Canadians that burned Washington.

As I have said many times in this forum. The troops that burned Washington were British Regulars that were fresh from the Pennisular Wars with France. They were dispatched from Bermuda and went directly to the Chesapeake. Canadian Militia were not present... at all. In addition the British that did burn down Washington were subsequently beaten at the Battle of Baltimore and sent packing.

Perhaps you should pop your head out of your butt before you start spouting off. Check out 'Flames Across the Border' by Pierre Burton, and you will find out how many 'Canadians' made the trip south. Yankee understanding of true history is dismal to say the least. Even yankee natives took part...
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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Ottawa, ON
Perhaps you should pop your head out of your butt before you start spouting off. Check out 'Flames Across the Border' by Pierre Burton, and you will find out how many 'Canadians' made the trip south. Yankee understanding of true history is dismal to say the least. Even yankee natives took part...

Canada did not exist yet. It was a war between the US and the UK, Canada being a part of the UK. So looking at it that way, it was the British who'd attacked DC.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
95
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Perhaps you should pop your head out of your butt before you start spouting off. Check out 'Flames Across the Border' by Pierre Burton, and you will find out how many 'Canadians' made the trip south. Yankee understanding of true history is dismal to say the least. Even yankee natives took part...


I know none of them made it to Washington! lol


The British Army, under General Robert Ross burnt the Whitehouse.

The Regiments involved were, 4th (Kings Own) 21st (Royal North British Fusiliers), 44th (East Essex) and the 85th Regiment of Foot. Also elements of the Royal Marines and the Royal Artillery were involved.

NO CANADIAN MILITIA OR OTHER UPPER/LOWER CANADA INVOLVEMENT.



Sorry for using facts. Hurts don't it?
 

Risus

Genius
May 24, 2006
5,373
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I know none of them made it to Washington! lol


The British Army, under General Robert Ross burnt the Whitehouse.

The Regiments involved were, 4th (Kings Own) 21st (Royal North British Fusiliers), 44th (East Essex) and the 85th Regiment of Foot. Also elements of the Royal Marines and the Royal Artillery were involved.

NO CANADIAN MILITIA OR OTHER UPPER/LOWER CANADA INVOLVEMENT.


Sorry for using facts. Hurts don't it?

Sorry but you got the facts wrong. Just the fact that the white house got burned down irks you doesn't it??? :canada::lol::canada::lol::canada::lol::canada::lol::canada::lol:
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
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Sorry but you got the facts wrong. Just the fact that the white house got burned down irks you doesn't it??? :canada::lol::canada::lol::canada::lol::canada::lol::canada::lol:
Risus, I'm a fiercely proud Canadian Patriot. Even I desinguish between the British Army and Canadian Army.

There was no Canadian Army in the war of 1812.

Hell, to be honest, we didn't have our own Canadian Armed Forces until 1931.
 

Risus

Genius
May 24, 2006
5,373
25
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Toronto
Risus, I'm a fiercely proud Canadian Patriot. Even I desinguish between the British Army and Canadian Army.

There was no Canadian Army in the war of 1812.

Hell, to be honest, we didn't have our own Canadian Armed Forces until 1931.

Well there was no 'Canada' until 1867, but our predecessors were here and they were part of the burning of the white house. If you want to distimguish between 'Canadian' and 'British', true they were 'British' at that point in time, but that doesn't change the fact that 'we' burned the white house.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
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Well there was no 'Canada' until 1867, but our predecessors were here and they were part of the burning of the white house. If you want to distimguish between 'Canadian' and 'British', true they were 'British' at that point in time, but that doesn't change the fact that 'we' burned the white house.

You really are desperate to take credit for the burning of the White House, aren't you.

Fair enough, on a technicality they weren't Canadian, but they were the ancestors of today's Canadians, granted, and so in that sense we could argue that Canada burned the White House. Now there is something to be proud of, not that we built something, but that we destroyed something. What a source of pride and joy.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
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Well there was no 'Canada' until 1867, but our predecessors were here and they were part of the burning of the white house. If you want to distimguish between 'Canadian' and 'British', true they were 'British' at that point in time, but that doesn't change the fact that 'we' burned the white house.
If you consider yourself British.

I don't. I'm a Canadian Patriot.
 

wulfie68

Council Member
Mar 29, 2009
2,014
24
38
Calgary, AB
Sorry but you got the facts wrong. Just the fact that the white house got burned down irks you doesn't it??? :canada::lol::canada::lol::canada::lol::canada::lol::canada::lol:

If you're so positive that he got the facts wrong then why don't you correct them?
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
138
63
California
I have trouble distinguishing between Canada and the U.S.

While differences ably pointed out by all the patriots here, you would be so disappointed how similar the cultures actually are - with real people going about their every day lives, raising kids, keeping jobs, trying to keep the mortgage payments going......

The integration would be insufferable to those who would insist we all get flag tattoos or something to define just "who we are!!!"

Maybe one day either Canadians or Americans will all grow extra noses or heads to define our separation from
each other...... wah wah wah....
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
10,385
129
63
Toronto
Curio, the people entertaining this fantasy are feral inbreds, still suckling from their mothers nipple. It's a disease.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
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United States
I'm not sure that's true. I for one have no interest in being an American, and would consider the country occupied, and i believe there would be an active resistance. The thing to remember is that if Canada were attacked it would be under the auspices of a tyrant and an invader. One whose same character would be imposed on its own people, as do all tyrannies.

You might think that is an anathema of American democracy. But there are 2 strains that exist in the American consciousness. One of Republic and one of Empire.

It was Imperial America that took Florida, Texas, California and the American Southwest by force arms, expelling indigents. All of our alliances are with the Republic of the United States, with the Empire of Pax Americana there are no treaties of any value.

By nature they respect no borders and crave tribute. None of the agreements would be any more valid than those held by the Indians with their understandings that the U.S. would not expand west of the Mississippi.

There is a protective element in our cause here. The American Imperial character has never managed to gain true precedence over the Republic. But it would be naive to say that this does not exist.

In fact if you look to the history of Republics and Empire, and specifically Rome, which in structure and architecture Washington has emulated, then tyranny finally triumphed over the democracy.. and immediately Rome started to dissolve from within, until the barbarians finally breeched the gates of the city, and Empire collapsed.

I can look at other countries, Poland, Finland, the Balkans, the Benelux countries who have throughout their histories been in the shadow of aggressive imperial aspirations, yet have continued to reserrect themselves as sovereign states.

Not only do i think the idea of Canada would sustain itself under American occupation, but i believe the nation state itself would ultimately prevail.

Empire only exists in the minds of non Americans, we have evolved from a pure Republic to a Democratic Republic and nothing more. There are a lot of people in this world jealous because we made it work. I cannot disagree with you about what you say about Canada because as I mentioned it is ridiculous to think that the U.S. would invade Canada.


Well there was no 'Canada' until 1867, but our predecessors were here and they were part of the burning of the white house. If you want to distimguish between 'Canadian' and 'British', true they were 'British' at that point in time, but that doesn't change the fact that 'we' burned the white house.

Yes, but were not the British smitten by a higher being (Luck, Providence or Him whatever) who caused a hurricane to hasten the British withdrawal so they could be defeated at Baltimore.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
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Sorry but you got the facts wrong. Just the fact that the white house got burned down irks you doesn't it??? :canada::lol::canada::lol::canada::lol::canada::lol::canada::lol:


Not really. We did some burning ourselves as you know! lol

Oh and the facts are right.



The British Army, under General Robert Ross burnt the Whitehouse.

The Regiments involved were...


4th (Kings Own)

21st (Royal North British Fusiliers)

44th (East Essex) and the

85th Regiment of Foot.

Also elements of the Royal Marines and the Royal Artillery were involved.


Sorry... no Canadian Militia therefore the British get sole credit!

Facts suck sometimes eh Risus?

Well there was no 'Canada' until 1867, but our predecessors were here and they were part of the burning of the white house. If you want to distimguish between 'Canadian' and 'British', true they were 'British' at that point in time, but that doesn't change the fact that 'we' burned the white house.

Does that mean we beat you in the American Revolution?