What is the truth?

[AnnaG]

The lemmings thing is a concept. It's a fictional concept, but the idea remains the same.
Keep telling people something for thousands of years and they eventually accept it if they don't investigate it. It's a technique in conditioning for a certain behavior.

 

[Cliffy]

How many people on here and in real life say that Canada is the best country and that our system of government is flawed but better than any other out there? Is this true or just an accepted fact because that is what we have been fed, or do we know this because we have investigated other countries and their systems? I am sure that there are other countries with systems that the people think are better. Just look next door. We would never put up with their system and they wouldn't tolerate ours. Is that not a form of brainwashing?

 

[SirJosephPorter]

How many people on here and in real life say that Canada is the best country and that our system of government is flawed but better than any other out there? Is this true or just an accepted fact because that is what we have been fed, or do we know this because we have investigated other countries and their systems?

It happens to be an accepted fact, Cliffy. I have lived in USA and Britain for several years each, and I can say without hesitation that Canada is the best of the three. United Nation publishes the list of countries according to the quality of life, and Canada is invariably No.1 or near the top.

So your point that citizens of any country would think that their country is the best in the world is a valid one. However, in the case of Canada, there is some objective evidence, in addition to patriotism.

 

[Cannuck]

A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the world being round that agitated people but that the world wasn’t flat.

No. The initial commotion of a truth is proportional to negative effect of the truth.

Whether the world was round or flat did not matter in and of itself. The effect of that truth was to show the Church to be wrong. If the church was wrong about inconsequential things, it could be wrong about important things. The Church saw it's existence threatened by the truth.

Many people and/or groups will fight the truth, not because of how much they believed the lie but, based on how the truth affects them. I'll wager that if a scientific study came out tomorrow that said moderate amounts of alcohol improves driving skills, MADD would attack the study. The science behind the study is irrelevant.

 

[Cannuck]

Do you honestly think a society as you envision could actually survive? If it did, what would be the point of striving for anything else, especially self improvement?

People seem to confuse freedom and democracy. Blacks, gays, women...all would have no basic rights if the will of the majority was respected.

 

[Cannuck]

Now to throw a wrench into the issue Cliffy, what I find to be equally interesting to the flock mentality, is the conspiracy theory mentality.... the personality that will swallow any theory so long as it's sold to them under the guise of 'they really don't want you to know this, but...'

"They" can't keep a gummer in the Oval Office or a naked pictures of Iraqi soldiers off the front pages but, they can hide the grandest schemes. "They" are an odd bunch...if they actually exist.

 

[Cannuck]

Just look next door. We would never put up with their system and they wouldn't tolerate ours. Is that not a form of brainwashing?

Says who. I, and many people I know, would consider moving to the states if the right opportunity came up. Many Americans want the things we have (universal health care).

It's rather simple. We have one of the best systems in the world and that is proven by the fact that so many are trying to come here. Open, democratic states attract people. Since the government's job is to serve people, it would appear that ours is doing a relatively good job.

 

[Cliffy]

Well, that turned out to be a poor analogy. Just shows you that I've been living in near isolation for too long. But on some level, the objection to it shows resistance to different ideas.
I'll have to come up with something better but right now I'm hungry. Later!

 

[lone wolf]

"They" can't keep a gummer in the Oval Office or a naked pictures of Iraqi soldiers off the front pages but, they can hide the grandest schemes. "They" are an odd bunch...if they actually exist.

Sure they can.... a previous one involved billions of dollars, the largest buildings on Earth and Manhattan too....

 

[VanIsle]

The old Tommy Douglas story of the mice voting in the cats because they believe they have no other choice. We keep voting in Liberals or Conservatives thinking we are voting in the lesser of two evils. We mistakenly believe that the alternatives have no chance to displace the ruling elite, so we don't vote for them. But that myth is constantly being reinforced by the media. If everyone voted their conscience instead of how the media tell you who to vote for, we might come closer to democracy. But change is scarier than the screwing we are used to.

Cliff I think the real truth is that if we voted our conscience, we wouldn't actually vote at all. Really, our only option is to vote for yet a 3rd party that we probably still don't agree with but that we still don't have any real say in. If the government is working for us - why do they get to give all the answers and why do they get to give themselves a raise? I gather from recent news that it is likely BC and AB will be having a strong look at pensions. Will they reduce the CPP and the OAS but not their own monthly wage. For a lot of the population, CPP and or OAS is their monthly wage. Yeah - we live in a democracy alright!8O

 

[VanIsle]

It happens to be an accepted fact, Cliffy. I have lived in USA and Britain for several years each, and I can say without hesitation that Canada is the best of the three. United Nation publishes the list of countries according to the quality of life, and Canada is invariably No.1 or near the top.

So your point that citizens of any country would think that their country is the best in the world is a valid one. However, in the case of Canada, there is some objective evidence, in addition to patriotism.

Is it really an accepted fact or your opinion Sir Joe? If our government is the so called best, then why aren't we the super power? If our gov't is so great, why is there so much crime? If I believed we lived in a democratic country with a government (all of them) that was even half way honest then I might begine to believe we have the best. I don't see where we have any bragging rights just yet. Forget the Cons or the Libs - just government. They all rule themselves. They all rob us of all they can. They all pay themselves as much as they can. They say how much we will be paid and they say what the rules are. We vote them in so they can tell us what to do. We don't even fight it because most people don't vote.

 

[AnnaG]

Cliff I think the real truth is that if we voted our conscience, we wouldn't actually vote at all. Really, our only option is to vote for yet a 3rd party that we probably still don't agree with but that we still don't have any real say in. If the government is working for us - why do they get to give all the answers and why do they get to give themselves a raise? I gather from recent news that it is likely BC and AB will be having a strong look at pensions. Will they reduce the CPP and the OAS but not their own monthly wage. For a lot of the population, CPP and or OAS is their monthly wage. Yeah - we live in a democracy alright!8O

Yup. So it has been said anyway. In reality though we don't have the mob rule that is a democracy, we have clique rule as in oligarchy. You vote Joe or Susan MP in and most of them are backbenchers. They have very little say in what goes on in gov't unless they get together and gang up on gov't.

 

[Unforgiven]

How many people on here and in real life say that Canada is the best country and that our system of government is flawed but better than any other out there? Is this true or just an accepted fact because that is what we have been fed, or do we know this because we have investigated other countries and their systems? I am sure that there are other countries with systems that the people think are better. Just look next door. We would never put up with their system and they wouldn't tolerate ours. Is that not a form of brainwashing?

That's simply cheerleading. Nothing wrong with it but it's hardly the argument for why Canada is a great country to live in. Canada or a city or two has always ranked among the top place to live in the world. It's not brain washing. Clean streets, fresh air, low crime rates and open space, always work for those who really want a job and the chance to make a comfortable life in peace for you and your family isn't some mythical stuff, it's reality right here in Canada.

So saying Canada is the greatest place in the world is not really far off the mark.
Anyone willing to do the investigation will find that it is so.

The Earth moves around the Sun. It's not brainwashing if it is so.

 

[darkbeaver]

Now to throw a wrench into the issue Cliffy, what I find to be equally interesting to the flock mentality, is the conspiracy theory mentality.... the personality that will swallow any theory so long as it's sold to them under the guise of 'they really don't want you to know this, but...'

Hi Karrie. Knowledge is power, like an ace up your sleeve.

 

[AnnaG]

Canada? Low crime rate?

Illegal drugs: Canada's growing international market

Total crimes (per capita) by country. Definition, graph and map.

Total crime victims (most recent) by country

Robberies (most recent) by country

Rapes statistics - countries compared - NationMaster



Um, I read somewhere that Sweden is the best place for women to live.

 

[AnnaG]

Canada is #4. according to the UN.

1. Iceland
2. Norway
3. Australia
4. Canada
5. Ireland

 

[AnnaG]

As of 9 years ago (2000):
fogo archive: Canada Best Place to Live--UN Report by Gerald Oskoboiny <gerald@impressive.net>

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Is it really an accepted fact or your opinion Sir Joe?

I did not say that it was the accepted fact or my opinion, VanIsle. What I said was that there is some objective evidence for saying that Canada is the best country in the world. United nations survey regarding quality of life invariably puts Canada at the top or very near the top. Quality of life in Canada is one of the best (if not the best) in the world (even with Harper in power).

If our government is the so called best, then why aren't we the super power? If our gov't is so great, why is there so much crime?

Nobody said that our government was the best, VanIsle. What the UN survey says is that quality of life is the best or one of the best in Canada. And Canada can never be a super power, we just don’t have the population. Thus China has been a superpower for a long time now, even when people there were very poor. Even now China’s standard of living is considerably lower than that of Canada, yet it is a super power because of its population.

And sure there is crime in Canada, but many other countries have much more crime. Compared to the rest of the world, Canada does not do badly at all. And again, nowhere did I say that our government is great.

I don't see where we have any bragging rights just yet.

We have bragging rights according to the UN survey. That is the only systematic, objective survey which compares the quality of life in different countries and Canada invariably does very well in the survey.

Incidentally, what I said is that my personal, anecdotal evidence is consistent with the survey. I have first hand experience with USA, Britain and Canada and I think Canada is the best country of the three, far better than USA or Britain.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Um, I read somewhere that Sweden is the best place for women to live.

Anna, Sweden has been in the vanguard for women’s rights for decades. Surprisingly, it was not the first country to give women the vote (that was New Zealand), but Sweden has been very progressive when it comes to women’s rights.

Sweden changed the rule of succession for the monarchy in 1950s, now the first child, man or woman becomes the monarch. This is in contrast with Britain, where they still have the law that first MALE child becomes the monarch.

Sweden has had high representation by women in local, national governments for a long time now. We visited Sweden about 25 years ago. That time the tour guide told us that in Stockholm local assembly, 41 out of 100 councilors were women (41 of the 100 ‘tyrants’ are women, as she put it).

So yes, my guess is the Sweden would be the best country in the world for women. Canada is probably the best country in the world for gays.

 

[AnnaG]

Is it really an accepted fact or your opinion Sir Joe?

I did not say that it was the accepted fact or my opinion, VanIsle. What I said was that there is some objective evidence for saying that Canada is the best country in the world. United nations survey regarding quality of life invariably puts Canada at the top or very near the top. Quality of life in Canada is one of the best (if not the best) in the world (even with Harper in power).

As I already posted: the UN considers Canada to be #4. We slid downhill since 2000.

If our government is the so called best, then why aren't we the super power? If our gov't is so great, why is there so much crime?

.............
And sure there is crime in Canada, but many other countries have much more crime. Compared to the rest of the world, Canada does not do badly at all. And again, nowhere did I say that our government is great.

Not that many other countries. Canada is pretty far up the ladder in crime.

Illegal drugs: Canada's growing international market

Total crimes (per capita) by country. Definition, graph and map.

Total crime victims (most recent) by country

Robberies (most recent) by country

Rapes statistics - countries compared - NationMaster

I don't see where we have any bragging rights just yet.

We have bragging rights according to the UN survey. That is the only systematic, objective survey which compares the quality of life in different countries and Canada invariably does very well in the survey.

Incidentally, what I said is that my personal, anecdotal evidence is consistent with the survey. I have first hand experience with USA, Britain and Canada and I think Canada is the best country of the three, far better than USA or Britain.

But not as good as Iceland, Norway, and Australia. So we could be a lot better.