Venezuela going wrong ?

[gopher]

Is post # 20 being directed to me?

When the heck did I ever berate anyone here for saying Afghan women shouldn't get educated?

Link please -- this should be interesting.

 

[BitWhys]

...
If assets of U.S. companies are seized without fair compensation, Venezuela should be subject to penalties...

That's a might be "if", even to the point of being propaganda in itself.

 

[L Gilbert]

Sorry, Goph. I'm confusing you with Illogic 7 and that other guy. Sorry. *sheepish look*

 

[gopher]

No problem LG -- we're pals again!

 

[L Gilbert]

. Good, let's have a pint or 4.

 

[gopher]

I've just popped open one and here's to you!


LG, you're an inspiration!

 

[Volvere]

Hugo is going to do well. US is only fearfull, because if he is successful, it will expose the US systems as failures.

Hugo helped Argentina out of the messes left from US and IMF corruption. We were once well off, but then in mess. Slowly we are building again, hopefully with Chavez help.

He is a good leader. I'm not so good on socialism, but if he can make it work with out corrupt of old Soviet system, then he is the better man.

 

[Toro]

Nationalize telephone and electricity companies is damn smart, congrats chavez, you are Number one.

Yeah, good stuff.

The last time CANTV was in public hands, it could take 10 years to get a phone.

 

[Toro]

I've just popped open one and here's to you!


LG, you're an inspiration!

FFS Gopher, I thought you wanted to make friends with him! Pawning cooking beer on him ain't gonna do that.

Better to serve him that other drink you like...

 

[Logic 7]

Yeah, good stuff.

The last time CANTV was in public hands, it could take 10 years to get a phone.

So far chavez has been fast on everything he promised for his peoples and he did,something the us leaders and most of the g8 leaders arent capable of doing, and at least it is not foreign coorporations who makes most of the profit.

 

[gopher]

```Better to serve him that other drink you like```

Unfortunately, I ran out of the really good stuff. Will do next time for sure!

 

[gopher]

... and when I'm at it, I'll toast to Chavez and say "viva Venezuela!"

 

[L Gilbert]

I've just popped open one and here's to you!


LG, you're an inspiration!

I'll drink to that, raising a http://www.nelsonbrewing.com/black.html

 

[L Gilbert]

FFS Gopher, I thought you wanted to make friends with him! Pawning cooking beer on him ain't gonna do that.

Better to serve him that other drink you like...

That's more like it, but NBC stout is better than Guinness, IMO.

 

[Zzarchov]

Before you get to harsh on Socialism in Latin and South america, lets remember what Capitalism under the banner of Dole and Chiquita did to them for the majority of the twentieth century (then under the names of Standard Fruit and United Fruit, they rebranded themselves because no one wants to be associated with attempted Genocide)

They ruled as competing corporate empires with an Iron fist. Complete monopolies over all transport and communication, as well as education and food. They had private police forces and armies and controlled the governments in their empires. Wars were waged in their name, and dissidents to corporate rule were sent to re-education camps and usually shot. Resistent indiginous groups were usually exterminated (or attempted to).

So given the track record of letting the free market run free in South America, it would be pretty damn hard for socialism to do any worse even if Stalin himself returned to life and began running the region.

 

[Toro]

So given the track record of letting the free market run free in South America, it would be pretty damn hard for socialism to do any worse even if Stalin himself returned to life and began running the region.

From 1870 to 1920, Argentina was one of the most open and richest economies in the world. It was slightly richer that Canada, in fact. But after a crash in commodities and the Great Depression, it succumbed to state-sponsored populism, which eventually plunged the country into dictatorship and nearly destroyed the country.

The market economy has worked very well in Chile, so much so that the socialist President of Chile recently stated that the Left's opposition to globalization is misplaced.

Link

Latin American economies are more akin to fuedalism/populism rather than capitalism/socialism. But populism, though it may not be socialism, is a mechanism by which the government intervenes on behalf of "the people" and almost always with disastorous results. Inflation in Latin America reached as high as 14,000% per year in some countries in the 1970s and 1980s.

You are seeing the seeds of this in Venezuela today when Hugh said he was going to take over the Venezuelan central bank. Increasing social payments and nationalizing public phone companies and utilities isn't particularly revolutionary - especially since they're going to pay the companies. But stripping the central bank of any independence sets the country up for disaster.

 

[gopher]

President Bachelet of Chile touts the market economy but only so long as it benefits the common people. Her motto is: My role as President is looking after the well-being of everyone in this country.

Therefore her vision of marketism does not in any way reflect the vision of someone like Bush's whose vision is one of limitless wealth for the rich at the expense of the poor.

http://www.presidencyofchile.cl/view/homepage.asp


Another example of her wisdom is a little known fact that soon all school children will be required to have a mastery of the English language in order to graduate from school. This change was adopted successfully in socialistic Sweden and in other countries to their greatly creditable success. Under the old ways this reform was never instituted. But with President Bachelet is will work equally well.

Therefore, Chile's future looks really good!

 

[Colpy]

President Bachelet of Chile touts the market economy but only so long as it benefits the common people. Her motto is: My role as President is looking after the well-being of everyone in this country.

Therefore her vision of marketism does not in any way reflect the vision of someone like Bush's whose vision is one of limitless wealth for the rich at the expense of the poor.

http://www.presidencyofchile.cl/view/homepage.asp


Another example of her wisdom is a little known fact that soon all school children will be required to have a mastery of the English language in order to graduate from school. This change was adopted successfully in socialistic Sweden and in other countries to their greatly creditable success. Under the old ways this reform was never instituted. But with President Bachelet is will work equally well.

Therefore, Chile's future looks really good!

Actually, I agree, although I'm not sure the future of any nation as politically polarized as Chile seems to be can be refered to as "good"

What does this have to do with the looney Castro wannabe in Venezula?

 

[Toro]

President Bachelet of Chile touts the market economy but only so long as it benefits the common people. Her motto is: My role as President is looking after the well-being of everyone in this country.

Therefore her vision of marketism does not in any way reflect the vision of someone like Bush's whose vision is one of limitless wealth for the rich at the expense of the poor.

http://www.presidencyofchile.cl/view/homepage.asp


Another example of her wisdom is a little known fact that soon all school children will be required to have a mastery of the English language in order to graduate from school. This change was adopted successfully in socialistic Sweden and in other countries to their greatly creditable success. Under the old ways this reform was never instituted. But with President Bachelet is will work equally well.

Therefore, Chile's future looks really good!

The problem with the opponents of globalization is that they see a cartoonish interpretation of what it is, i.e. a nefarious plot of corporations to benefit the rich at the expense of the poor.

It does not mean that there can be no social programs, public education system, etc.

Sweden is a good example because in Sweden, there are few trade barriers, respect for property rights, few business regulations, large and profitable multinational corporations, fairly open labour markets, etc. Sweden is a more globalized nation than France or Germany.

Denmark is even better in that they've been able to keep unemployment lower than Sweden by offering unemployment insurance but aggressively forcing people to take jobs when one opens up, even if that job pays less and is not in field the person was in before being laid off.

 

[#juan]

Actually, I agree, although I'm not sure the future of any nation as politically polarized as Chile seems to be can be refered to as "good"

What does this have to do with the looney Castro wannabe in Venezula?

On another Venuzuela thread I quoted an old line;"A socialist is just a capitalist with no money". Chavez is one socialist with barrels of money. Chavez won an election with a big majority on the promise that he would be going even further down the socialist road. Maybe he can make it work. I can't think of an oil-rich country in Afrika that is any kind of democratic success story. I hope the U.S. will stay the hell out and let them develop in their own way.