UK Gov In Turmoil & Bexit Mess.

Serryah

Executive Branch Member
Dec 3, 2008
8,986
2,076
113
New Brunswick
Brexit: EU and UK reach deal but DUP refuses support

A Brexit deal has been agreed between the UK and EU before a meeting of European leaders in Brussels.

Boris Johnson and Jean-Claude Juncker called it a "fair" outcome - and the EU Commission President said there was no need to extend the Brexit deadline.

He said: "We have a deal so why should we have a prolongation."

This will be a boost for the PM, but he still faces a battle to get the deal through Parliament on Saturday, with the DUP opposing it.

Mr Johnson urged MPs to "come together" and "get this excellent deal over the line".

He added: "Now is the moment for us to get Brexit done and then together to work on building our future partnership, which I think can be incredibly positive both for the UK and for the EU."

Brexit should happen "without any more delay", he added, so that the government could turn its attentions to domestic priorities.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50079385


So, how do you feel about Nigel saying the deal that BoJo has gotten isn't good enough and wants it vetoed?


Personally after reading the article, I don't blame the DUP for worrying, especially if it breaks THEIR agreements.


That said as was pointed out, it's either this or a no deal...


Or watch a vote of No Confidence happen...
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
48,430
1,668
113
So, how do you feel about Nigel saying the deal that BoJo has gotten isn't good enough and wants it vetoed?
Personally after reading the article, I don't blame the DUP for worrying, especially if it breaks THEIR agreements.
That said as was pointed out, it's either this or a no deal...
Or watch a vote of No Confidence happen...

Wel if it's just a rehash of May's surrender document but with the backstop removed then the Commons would be right to vote it down and e leave with No Deal.

As for the DUP, I think it supports a No Deal Brexit, so is bound to vote against a deal.

And why would there be motion of no confidence against Boris? He's got a deal. I thought the Remainers wants a deal.

Oh no. I forgot. The Remainers DON'T want a deal, of course. Because that would mean Brexit.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
48,430
1,668
113
Boris can't win. If he came up with No Deal, the Remainers won't be happy. When he comes up with a deal, they aren't happy because, paradoxically, they don't want a deal.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
48,430
1,668
113
EU leaders AGREE Boris Johnson's Brexit deal after Jean-Claude Juncker said there will be NO extension beyond Oct 31st if MPs reject it - leaving Remainers backed into a corner





Boris Johnson was triumphant in Brussels tonight as the EU agreed to his new Brexit deal - and Jean-Claude Juncker backed Remainers into a corner by suggesting that the bloc will not agree to any further delay. The European commission chief indicated a request for an extension would be rejected by the EU if the PM is forced by Parliament to ask for a delay, although Donald Tusk later refused to rule out categorically allowing the 27 members of the EU to consider any such request. Such strong rhetoric means that if Remainer MPs refuse to back Boris Johnson's deal in a showdown vote on Saturday, they run the risk of Britain crashing out of the EU with No Deal. That sets up a day of frenetic deal-making tomorrow, with No 10 fighting to win onside former Tory rebels, the DUP and Labour rebels. The dramatic intervention came as Mr Johnson insisted 'now is the moment to get Brexit done' after he signed off the blueprint, which deletes the hated Irish backstop. Mr Johnson told reporters this evening he was 'very confident' that MPs will want to vote for his deal on Saturday. He then suggested his view that there should be no further Brexit extension was ‘widely shared’ among other leaders.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...rt-Boris-Johnson-new-Brexit-deal-customs.html
 

Serryah

Executive Branch Member
Dec 3, 2008
8,986
2,076
113
New Brunswick
Wel if it's just a rehash of May's surrender document but with the backstop removed then the Commons would be right to vote it down and e leave with No Deal.


Which, from what I read in the article, it is. From the article...



Most of the deal is the same as the one agreed by Theresa May last year - the main change is the Northern Ireland proposal.


Oops, guess it's right for them to vote no deal then.


As for the DUP, I think it supports a No Deal Brexit, so is bound to vote against a deal.


Has it said that anywhere that you can prove? From the article...



In a statement, the Democratic Unionist Party, which the government relies on for support in key votes, said: "These proposals are not, in our view, beneficial to the economic well-being of Northern Ireland and they undermine the integrity of the Union."
The DUP deputy leader Nigel Dodds criticised Mr Johnson, telling BBC News: "If he'd held his nerve - and held out - he would, of course, have got better concessions which kept the integrity, both economic and constitutional, of the UK."


Kind'a looks like there they want what's best for North Ireland.


And why would there be motion of no confidence against Boris? He's got a deal. I thought the Remainers wants a deal.


If it fails Parliament, then it's a "No Deal", which is what brought May down.



Per the article...


That could trigger the Benn Act, forcing a lengthy delay, and could encourage some opposition MP to trigger a motion of no confidence, paving the way for a general election.

Oh no. I forgot. The Remainers DON'T want a deal, of course. Because that would mean Brexit.


Seems it's not all Remainers, if your Idol Nigel isn't for it, remember?


Did you even read the article at all?
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
48,430
1,668
113
Oops, guess it's right for them to vote no deal then.

I agree. Much better than voting for a surrender document which isn't reallty Brexit and keeps us in the EU in all but name.

It's no wonder the DUP are opposed to it.
Has it said that anywhere that you can prove? From the article...

It doesn't need to say it in the article. It's a known fact. The DUP, a right-wing Northern Irish Unionist party that promotes Britishness and is against gay marriage and abortion, is well-known for bring a pro-Brexit, anti-EU, party.
Kind'a looks like there they want what's best for North Ireland.

Yeah. The DUP - which supports and props up the Government - wants No Deal Brexit.

Seems it's not all Remainers, if your Idol Nigel isn't for it, remember?

Remainers don't want a deal, because that would mean Brexit.

The Brexit Party won't support a deal that doesn't deliver proper Brexit.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
48,430
1,668
113
Although Johnson's deal can't be anywhere near as bad as May's. Even Rees-Mogg likes it, as he's said in the Commons tonight:

Boris Johnson's deal was a "triumph of negotiating", Commons Leader Jacob Rees-Mogg says in a video posted on Twitter by the Conservatives.

"As a long-standing Eurosceptic I'm really pleased with the deal," he says.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
48,430
1,668
113
25 minutes ago was two weeks exactly until Britain leaves.

It leaves at 11pm British time on Thursday 31st October - deal or no deal.

Finally, we've almost done it.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
48,430
1,668
113
Five ways in which Boris Johnson’s Brexit deal is better than Theresa May’s

Steerpike
17 October 2019
The Spectator



Boris Johnson managed to defy his critics today and reach a Brexit deal with the European Union. The new agreement updates the Northern Ireland protocol of Theresa May’s Withdrawal Agreement and the Political Declaration, which deals with the future relationship. But while the rest of the deal appears to be unchanged, Boris has succeeded in winning some key concessions from the EU.

Here are five reasons why Boris’s deal is better than May’s:

1. The backstop is gone

Firstly, the backstop that Theresa May negotiated with the EU has been replaced by a new Northern Ireland Protocol and the UK-wide Customs Union in the backstop has been removed completely. Northern Ireland will remain in the UK’s customs territory, which means its people will be able to benefit from any trade deals brokered by the UK after the transition period ends. The territorial sovereignty of the UK is kept intact and the country will have one common external tariff with the rest of the world (although goods coming into NI destined for the EU will pay the EU’s external tariff).

The downside for Northern Ireland is that the region will have to remain, as before, inside the EU’s regulatory orbit for goods, to allow its border with the Republic of Ireland to remain open. Northern Ireland will remain aligned with the EU, and some checks may take place for goods travelling between Northern Ireland and Great Britain.

But…

2. Northern Ireland can leave if it wants

In Theresa May’s Withdrawal Agreement, the UK and Northern Ireland could only break away from the backstop as long as the EU agreed on alternative arrangements. As the EU would have no incentive to do this, May’s agreement essentially meant that the UK and NI would either have to remain inside the Single Market and Customs Union, or risk being trapped in the backstop forever.

In Boris Johnson’s deal, if Northern Ireland wants to leave the arrangement set out above, it can do so with a vote in the Stormont Assembly. The future of Northern Ireland will now be decided in Belfast, not Brussels. The DUP would not have a veto over this process, which explains its disappointment at the deal.

3. Free trade deals can start on New Year’s Day 2021

Under Boris Johnson’s agreement, the UK will be able to formally begin negotiating trade deals with the rest of the world as soon as the agreement is ratified by parliament. Until now, the uncertainty of the UK’s exit date from the EU has made genuine negotiations with most countries impossible.

But once Boris Johnson’s Withdrawal Agreement is passed, the UK will formally be able to conclude trade talks with the rest of the world. If the UK begins negotiating with the United States in earnest, a Free Trade Deal could be completed as soon as 1 January 2021, when the transition period of the deal ends.

4. Goodbye to the level-playing field commitments

Due to certain clauses in Theresa May’s Withdrawal Agreement, the UK would have been legally bound to the EU’s ‘level playing field’ rules – such as minimum standards on environmental policy and employment law. This meant the UK would not be able to seek certain competitive advantages when trading with countries around the world. In Boris Johnson’s deal, the UK’s commitment to a level playing field has been moved from the Withdrawal Agreement (which is legally binding) to the Political Declaration (which is not). This is the next phase of the Brexit talks. But whether the UK has to follow these rules or not will instead be decided in the negotiations on the future relationship, giving the UK greater leverage in the next stage of the talks.

5. The UK still takes control of its money, borders and laws

The UK will have left the EU on 31 October 2019. And as soon as the transition period ends, the country will take control of its money, borders and laws. Yes, there’s £33 billion of divorce payments – but we will take back control of the £13 billion a year that we send to the EU, saving at least £70 billion net over the next decade. The UK will have the ability to control its own borders, and if it wishes, end the free movement of people with the European Union, and replace it with its own immigration policy that prioritises and encourages high-skilled people to come and live and work in the UK. This would happen in January 2021.

Now that the backstop has been removed, it also appears that ECJ’s jurisdiction has been massively reduced. The ECJ will still have jurisdiction over EU citizens' rights for a time-limited period, and over disputes that relate to an interpretation of EU law in the WA. Northern Ireland will also be subject to some ECJ jurisdiction as long as it remains aligned to the EU. But once we leave, the UK will be free to set its own laws, in its own parliament, with its own elected representatives voting on legislation.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/...sons-brexit-deal-is-better-than-theresa-mays/
 
Last edited:

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
37,070
6
36
It's gotta pass through Parliament. If it manages that miracle, that'll be the sixth way that it's better than Theresa May's deal.

It has about an ice cube's chance in Hell of bring passed. Boris has no other cards left to play, either. The E.U. might not even let him off the plane in Brussels, next time.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
48,430
1,668
113
It's gotta pass through Parliament. If it manages that miracle, that'll be the sixth way that it's better than Theresa May's deal.
It has about an ice cube's chance in Hell of bring passed. Boris has no other cards left to play, either. The E.U. might not even let him off the plane in Brussels, next time.

Well if it doesn't pass Parliament then we will leave with No Deal on 31st October. The EU has tonight ruled out a further extension, which is a big blow to the Remainers. So Britain will definitely be out of the EU by 1st November.

Either way, Boris has managed to take us out of the EU and he's going to win the next election in a landslide.

But it's hard to say how the Commons will vote. Boris is holding talks with the DUP and Labour and Tory Remainers tomorrow to try and win them over.

But if his deal is voted down on Saturday, then it hardly matters.
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
37,070
6
36
Well if it doesn't pass Parliament then we will leave with No Deal on 31st October. The EU has tonight ruled out a further extension, which is a big blow to the Remainers.
Either way, Boris has managed to take us out of the EU and he's going to win the next election in a landslide.
Chances are ... no deal ...No more Boris ... The Tories will finish under the Lib-Dems, your voters will be so pissed off at them.