The true marvelous story of Moses

[selfsame]

The story of Moses

Quran Soora 28

{ 29. Then, when Moses had accomplished the term [of the eight years a], and was traveling with his family [: his wife and two sons b], he saw in the distance a fire by the side of the [Mount] Hor c, and said to his family: "Stay here; for I see in the distance a fire; that I may bring you therefrom information [about the correct way ], or [bring] a brand of fire [in a piece of wood] that you may kindle fire [from it.]"

30. When he came to it, he was called from the right e bank of the valley f, in the blessed g area [below the mountain, and which was called the Valley of Tuwa], out of the tree [of olive] h: "Moses, I AM God, the Lord of the worlds."

31. "[Now] cast down your staff [on the ground!]"
[So he cast it down] but when he saw it moving vigorously as it were a genie, he turned to flee [from it] headlong and turned not backwards.
[So God – be glorified – called him, and said:] "O Moses, come forward and fear not; for surely you are safe."

32. "Introduce your hand into your bosom [: the opening of your shirt], and it shall come out white [with radiation] without disease [or skin depigmentation];
and in case you fear [when you see it], fold your hand [under your armpit, and it will return back to its usual condition];
so these [: the staff and the white hand] are two proofs from your Lord to Pharaoh and his princes; for surely they are an ungodly people.”

33. [Moses] said: "My Lord, I killed one of them, and I fear lest they may kill me."

34. "And Aaron, my brother, is more fluent than I am; so send him with me as a ‘follower i and helper’ to confirm my [words]; for I fear that they will deny me."

35. [God] said: "We shall assist you, [Moses], with your brother [Aaron]j, and give to both of you an authority [by means of the nine miracles] so that they cannot afflict you [with any harm]; [therefore], because of Our [nine] miracles [they will fear and dread you; and] you – both in addition to those who follow you – will be the victors k."}
...............................................................

29 a The indication of that it was the term of the eight years not of the ten years, because He said: (When Moses had accomplished the term), and He did not say: accomplished the two terms.
29 b With his sheeps, aiming to travel to Egypt, and that was after the death of Shu'aib (Reuel) the father of his wife, and the standing of his son instead of his father.
29 c Horeb or El-Tor Mountain.
29 d He had missed the way because of the darkness of the night.

30 e i.e. to the right side of Moses, who was moving from Midian aiming at Egypt.
For this reason, God – be glorified – said in the Quran 19: 52, which means:
(And We called to him from the right side of the Tor: [Mount Sinai: Horeb])
It means: the mountain was to the right of Moses.

God – be glorified – said also in this soora 28: 44, which means:
(And you [Mohammed] were not on the western side of the [Mount Horeb] when We decreed to Moses the matter.)
It means: on the side of the Mount Horeb to the west of Moses.
So according to this description, the mountain was to his right, his face towards the south, i.e. towards Egypt to which he aimed in his journey, and the town of Midian behind him.
30 f i.e. which was along the side of Mount Horeb.
30 g It was blessed and sacred because Prophet Abraham prayed and worshipped there. Then the light of God settled in the tree.
30 h For this reason, God said it is blessed, that is in the Quran 24: 35, which means:
(lit [with oil derived] from a blessed tree: an olive); because God spoke to Moses out of it, and said: (Moses, I AM God, the Lord of the worlds.)
In fact, Ezra son of Siraeh made a mistake in his Torah, when he said it was the blackberry tree [as in the Arabic Bible, while in the English Bible: he said: the bush.]
That is because this tree is the hiding place of the swines; it is an evil tree with curved spikes which will tear the clothes of anyone approaches it or culls of its fruits. Our father Adam uprooted it when he ate of its fruit then he uprooted it and cast it away, because it was the reason for his expelling out of the garden.
34 i The word means a ‘follower’: not behind the leader but along with him, to follow and assist him.

35 j i.e. We shall make your brother an assistant to you, in order that your heart may be strengthened with him.
35 k Against them.
Therefore, Moses immediately set to Egypt, and left his family who returned to Midian, to their uncle: the brother of Moses’ wife: Zipporah.

The interpretation is by Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Tell me the truth: are you the same Dexter Sinister but with another username!? :lol:

I am not Dexter Sinister, though we live in the same city, and to the best of my knowledge,
have never met. Not like Batman & Bruce Wayne, but through coincidence.

Perhaps something in the water here makes one try to think for themselves (I've never
really thought about it). Petros, here on this forum, also lived in this same city until
recently, & to the best of my knowledge he & I have never met either.

 

[Ludlow]

The story of Moses

Quran Soora 28

{ 29. Then, when Moses had accomplished the term [of the eight years a], and was traveling with his family [: his wife and two sons b], he saw in the distance a fire by the side of the [Mount] Hor c, and said to his family: "Stay here; for I see in the distance a fire; that I may bring you therefrom information [about the correct way ], or [bring] a brand of fire [in a piece of wood] that you may kindle fire [from it.]"

30. When he came to it, he was called from the right e bank of the valley f, in the blessed g area [below the mountain, and which was called the Valley of Tuwa], out of the tree [of olive] h: "Moses, I AM God, the Lord of the worlds."

31. "[Now] cast down your staff [on the ground!]"
[So he cast it down] but when he saw it moving vigorously as it were a genie, he turned to flee [from it] headlong and turned not backwards.
[So God – be glorified – called him, and said:] "O Moses, come forward and fear not; for surely you are safe."

32. "Introduce your hand into your bosom [: the opening of your shirt], and it shall come out white [with radiation] without disease [or skin depigmentation];
and in case you fear [when you see it], fold your hand [under your armpit, and it will return back to its usual condition];
so these [: the staff and the white hand] are two proofs from your Lord to Pharaoh and his princes; for surely they are an ungodly people.”

33. [Moses] said: "My Lord, I killed one of them, and I fear lest they may kill me."

34. "And Aaron, my brother, is more fluent than I am; so send him with me as a ‘follower i and helper’ to confirm my [words]; for I fear that they will deny me."

35. [God] said: "We shall assist you, [Moses], with your brother [Aaron]j, and give to both of you an authority [by means of the nine miracles] so that they cannot afflict you [with any harm]; [therefore], because of Our [nine] miracles [they will fear and dread you; and] you – both in addition to those who follow you – will be the victors k."}
...............................................................

29 a The indication of that it was the term of the eight years not of the ten years, because He said: (When Moses had accomplished the term), and He did not say: accomplished the two terms.
29 b With his sheeps, aiming to travel to Egypt, and that was after the death of Shu'aib (Reuel) the father of his wife, and the standing of his son instead of his father.
29 c Horeb or El-Tor Mountain.
29 d He had missed the way because of the darkness of the night.

30 e i.e. to the right side of Moses, who was moving from Midian aiming at Egypt.
For this reason, God – be glorified – said in the Quran 19: 52, which means:
(And We called to him from the right side of the Tor: [Mount Sinai: Horeb])
It means: the mountain was to the right of Moses.

God – be glorified – said also in this soora 28: 44, which means:
(And you [Mohammed] were not on the western side of the [Mount Horeb] when We decreed to Moses the matter.)
It means: on the side of the Mount Horeb to the west of Moses.
So according to this description, the mountain was to his right, his face towards the south, i.e. towards Egypt to which he aimed in his journey, and the town of Midian behind him.
30 f i.e. which was along the side of Mount Horeb.
30 g It was blessed and sacred because Prophet Abraham prayed and worshipped there. Then the light of God settled in the tree.
30 h For this reason, God said it is blessed, that is in the Quran 24: 35, which means:
(lit [with oil derived] from a blessed tree: an olive); because God spoke to Moses out of it, and said: (Moses, I AM God, the Lord of the worlds.)
In fact, Ezra son of Siraeh made a mistake in his Torah, when he said it was the blackberry tree [as in the Arabic Bible, while in the English Bible: he said: the bush.]
That is because this tree is the hiding place of the swines; it is an evil tree with curved spikes which will tear the clothes of anyone approaches it or culls of its fruits. Our father Adam uprooted it when he ate of its fruit then he uprooted it and cast it away, because it was the reason for his expelling out of the garden.
34 i The word means a ‘follower’: not behind the leader but along with him, to follow and assist him.

35 j i.e. We shall make your brother an assistant to you, in order that your heart may be strengthened with him.
35 k Against them.
Therefore, Moses immediately set to Egypt, and left his family who returned to Midian, to their uncle: the brother of Moses’ wife: Zipporah.

The interpretation is by Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly.

What if there was no Moses and it was all made up Selfsap. ? Where is the physical evidence of this "Moses"?

 

[Murphy]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=r60DqZBhl3E

 

[MHz]

Did you cover the part about God taking the breath away before Moses turned 120 years old. The determination in Ge:6 and the 120 years came into effect and Moses was the first 'one' to be subject to that. It would seem that before Moses back to Adam a person (male and female) was judged after being 'a day old; which is 1,000 years.
Even in the new earth verses in Isaiah:65 the 120 plays a role as far as a person gaining immortality from God when they are judged not to be a sinner. In that era an infant is somebody between the age of 0-20 and at that time the title of 'infant' dies and the title of 'child' of God is taken on and that would be like Adam and Eve being married and having children, sinless children that are 'eternal beings in that they cannot die as long as they eat. A sinner of 100 years (20-120 years old) would be sent to the lake of fire but since none will be found to be a sinner all people would replace the 'child' title for that of 'old-man' and that stays for them for the rest of eternity. A person would eat because they like the taste of a specific food rather than they need food to stay alive.

The sin that Moses did that stopped him from entering the Promised Land was taking credit for making water come out of a rock. I suppose that comes under the the 'with great power comes great responsibility' banner. Not such a big deal when a member of the flock does it compared to it being the 'Anointed High Priest'.
That process for Moses and all other members of the 12 Tribes goes back to Jacob and Joseph but Abraham seems to be included under the same Law that Adam was under. Due to the Sons of God being the kings the Law that governed the land was the one from Re:21 as that is the one that immortal beings are under. The 12 Tribes become 'glorified' in the first 30 days after the day the 7th trumpet sounds. The cleanup in Eze:39 will being as a 7 year covenant and then the land has been purified, as well as the people. By the time Satan is released 1,000 years later these immortal beings will be judged by God under the rules that had Him condemn the earth before the flood of water. They will pass that judgement and the fire that consumes the land and the sinners will leave them untouched.
About 45 days after the 7th trump sounds the Gentiles that remained alive after that same fire covered the globe enter Israel via the Dead Sea as that is purified water and the river that now feeds it comes from the House of Prayer that will be the Tabernacle that holds the thrones for the 1,000 year reign. The 12 Tribes and the Church both live in New Jerusalem in the New Earth and they remain childless while the ones outside will be the ones having children that start out as 'infants' and 120 years later they become immortals and Moses would be the 1st in line as far as being under that judgement. The change in Law came when the last giant was killed as that was the last relative of the children of the 'sons of God' that were the kings prior to the flood.

What if there was no Moses and it was all made up Selfsap. ? Where is the physical evidence of this "Moses"?

The parting of the seas thing would have been very possible if you use the narrows in the Bitter Lakes

 

[Ludlow]

Did you cover the part about God taking the breath away before Moses turned 120 years old. The determination in Ge:6 and the 120 years came into effect and Moses was the first 'one' to be subject to that. It would seem that before Moses back to Adam a person (male and female) was judged after being 'a day old; which is 1,000 years.
Even in the new earth verses in Isaiah:65 the 120 plays a role as far as a person gaining immortality from God when they are judged not to be a sinner. In that era an infant is somebody between the age of 0-20 and at that time the title of 'infant' dies and the title of 'child' of God is taken on and that would be like Adam and Eve being married and having children, sinless children that are 'eternal beings in that they cannot die as long as they eat. A sinner of 100 years (20-120 years old) would be sent to the lake of fire but since none will be found to be a sinner all people would replace the 'child' title for that of 'old-man' and that stays for them for the rest of eternity. A person would eat because they like the taste of a specific food rather than they need food to stay alive.

The sin that Moses did that stopped him from entering the Promised Land was taking credit for making water come out of a rock. I suppose that comes under the the 'with great power comes great responsibility' banner. Not such a big deal when a member of the flock does it compared to it being the 'Anointed High Priest'.
That process for Moses and all other members of the 12 Tribes goes back to Jacob and Joseph but Abraham seems to be included under the same Law that Adam was under. Due to the Sons of God being the kings the Law that governed the land was the one from Re:21 as that is the one that immortal beings are under. The 12 Tribes become 'glorified' in the first 30 days after the day the 7th trumpet sounds. The cleanup in Eze:39 will being as a 7 year covenant and then the land has been purified, as well as the people. By the time Satan is released 1,000 years later these immortal beings will be judged by God under the rules that had Him condemn the earth before the flood of water. They will pass that judgement and the fire that consumes the land and the sinners will leave them untouched.
About 45 days after the 7th trump sounds the Gentiles that remained alive after that same fire covered the globe enter Israel via the Dead Sea as that is purified water and the river that now feeds it comes from the House of Prayer that will be the Tabernacle that holds the thrones for the 1,000 year reign. The 12 Tribes and the Church both live in New Jerusalem in the New Earth and they remain childless while the ones outside will be the ones having children that start out as 'infants' and 120 years later they become immortals and Moses would be the 1st in line as far as being under that judgement. The change in Law came when the last giant was killed as that was the last relative of the children of the 'sons of God' that were the kings prior to the flood.


The parting of the seas thing would have been very possible if you use the narrows in the Bitter Lakes

I thought that story was suppose to take place in the sea of Reeds Megaloony bin.

 

[selfsame]

I am not Dexter Sinister, though we live in the same city, and to the best of my knowledge,
have never met. Not like Batman & Bruce Wayne, but through coincidence.

Perhaps something in the water here makes one try to think for themselves (I've never
really thought about it). Petros, here on this forum, also lived in this same city until
recently, & to the best of my knowledge he & I have never met either.

Anyhow, you are similar to him in blasphemy and disbelief.

I believe in education, in obtaining information from as many different sources as possible
and then making up my own mind. I believe in questioning those that believe their own
beliefs are beyond question, be it the religion of Global Warming or any other....

I believe in crossing the street in crosswalks, holding the door for a woman, and respecting
my elders when they deserve it. I believe that no child is born bad, but some adults need a
swift kick in the backside. I believe there is someone out there for everyone. I believe that
animals have feelings and emotions. I believe in a hard days work for a fair days wage.

I believe almost everyone has something interesting to contribute to a conversation, as long
as the contribution is their own, and not regurgitated clap repeated without thought. I believe
you should treat people as you yourself wish to be treated. I believe charity starts at home.
I believe one should never stop learning. I believe in giving someone a 'hand up' and not a
'hand out.'

I believe in the inherent good of mankind, unless it is twisted up in a self-justifiable excuse like
nationalism or religion. I believe all people are equal. I believe in having fun and living life with
out having to make excuses for your behavior as long as your behavior doesn't harm or
endanger others. I believe real evil does exist, but it exists between the ears of people with
closed minds.

I do not believe in your "Satan" that you use to make veiled threats with.

This in fact is the evasion of the question.
Such things which you said, that you believe in, are not the belief: they are some sort of behavior common to all people.

The belief is: the belief in God the Creator, the belief in the Next Life and in the prophets and messengers (apostles) of God and in the angels of God and that there will be Doomsday.

So people divide in this respect:
some believe in God alone without associate,
others do not believe in God,
most of people believe in God but they assign some associates, son, daughters or peers together with God

Out of the latter group: some are Christians believing a son of God, or part of Trinity or that God is Jesus,
others are Jews or Muslims who associate the tombs - of their prophets and religious men - together with God Almighty.
Some others associate the idols and statues with God Most Gracious.
Others still associate Satan and the genies together with God the Creator.

So this is the belief: and it is not the belief in education or crossing the street .. etc, with which you boast and think yourself loftier than others.

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/78.htm#a78_1
Google search: quran-ayat 1. About what do these [associaters] interrogate each other!?

quran-ayat Quran interpretation Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly

And see our website: quran-ayat(dot)com

 

[MHz]

I thought that story was suppose to take place in the sea of Reeds Megaloony bin.

What part of the story (Exodus:14) gave you that impression?

 

[selfsame]

What part of the story (Exodus:14) gave you that impression?

Generally speaking the story in the Quran is similar, with some differences, as will be seen in the following posts:
1- Pharaoh was obliged to release the Children of Israel together with Moses .. because every first born of the Egyptians was dead by morning, including the first born son of Pharaoh himself.. this may be the same in both the Torah and the Quran interpretation.
2- Moses with his people hastened to depart by night .. this may be the same in both of the Torah and the Quran.
3- The host of Pharaoh were impeded and hindered so that they might be late and will come to meet the Children of Israel at sunrise time on the sea shore. Such hindering was by means of storms, heavy rain, thunder and bright lightning.
4- God revealed to Moses to strike the sea with his staff (not to point with his hand) then the sea was parted and each partition was like a high hill or mountain.
Then the Children of Israel crossed on a dry land in the bottom of that sea, until they completed their crossing to the other side, when Pharaoh followed them with his host and when these were in the middle of the sea, the water came upon them as was it before (not by the hand of Moses.)

www.youtube.com/watch

If it is true, desperate rancorous, tell people what's the punishment of the adulterer according to Moses' law?

When Jesus Christ told people that anyone without sin might stone her: he did not violate the Law included in the Torah of God or what you call the Old Testament; but he wanted to emphasise that all of them were adulterers and sinners, so why should they blame others while they themselves were sinners?

=============================================================

The story of Moses

Quran Soora 28:
{36. But when Moses brought them Our miracles: clearly evident, they said: "This is nothing but a magic [which you] forge a, and we never heard such [words] among our forefathers."

37. Moses said [answering them]: “My Lord knows best who it is that has brought guidance from Him b, and whose will be the final [good] consequences c.
Surely, wrong-doers d will never prosper.”

38. And Pharaoh said e: "O nobles, I know not that you have any god [on earth] other than myself, so kindle to me [a fire], O Haman, for baking the mud [to make bricks]; and construct [from the bricks] a lofty tower for me, in order that I may look at [the God of heaven:] the God of Moses [and ask Him: did He truly send Moses or not]; and even I believe that [Moses] is a liar f."

39. [Pharaoh] and his hosts were haughty in the land without right, and thought that they would never be brought back to Us [when We will punish them according to their wrong-doing and their disbelief.] g

40. So We seized him and his hosts [with punishment], and cast them in the sea h; see [Mohammed] then what the consequence was of the wrong-doers i.

41. And We appointed them [as] leaders j, inviting [their people] to the Fire k, and – on the Day of Judgment – no succour l shall they be given.

42. And We let them be followed by a curse on them in this World m, and on the Day of Judgment they shall be spurned n.}
........................................................................

36 a Against the Lord of heaven.

37 b The meaning: My Lord knows best about me, because it is He Who has sent me to you with the guidance.
37 c It means: And He knows that the good final consequences will for us and for His servants who devote themselves exclusively to Him alone.
37 d Who wrong people and plunder their rights.

38 e Denying the miracles of God brought by Moses, and that was when he could not give answer to Moses and was unable to wrangle with him.
38 f And in fact the God of heaven did not send him.

39 g They thought that there is no sending of souls to the Afterlife, neither will there be any judgment nor any punishment following death.

40 h i.e. We cast them the Red Sea.
40 i Wasn’t it the punishment and loss?

41 j i.e. outstripping others to the punishment in the world of souls.
41 k As did they invite them to the disbelief in the life of the World.
41 l By averting the punishment from them.
Similar to this aya, is another one in the Quran 11: 98, which means:
(He shall go before his people [guiding them to Hell] on the Day of Judgment, and lead them down to the Fire [in the afterlife] – evil the resort and those resorting to it.)

42 m So that We cursed them in the Torah and in the Quran.
42 n i.e. they will be dishonored and exposed before people in the ‘Gathering-together’.


http://quran-ayat.com/pret/28.htm#a28_36
Our website: quran-ayat(dot)com

 

[Dexter Sinister]

I am not Dexter Sinister, though we live in the same city, and to the best of my knowledge,have never met.

Right, and I am not Ron in Regina and I don't think we've ever met either, but I'm pleased that someone might think we're the same person. Your post #120 above is an excellent and hopeful statement of values and beliefs and I applaud you for it.

 

[selfsame]

Right, and I am not Ron in Regina and I don't think we've ever met either, but I'm pleased that someone might think we're the same person. Your post #120 above is an excellent and hopeful statement of values and beliefs and I applaud you for it.

I don't applaud it, which also I refuted to in my post #127 .

 

[Dexter Sinister]

It does not apply here.

In fact, you don't believe neither in God nor in the Torah revealed to Moses, nor in the Quran revealed to Mohammed.
So if you don't believe in the Torah itself, how can you say: the Quran takes the stories from the Torah?

You think that's good logic? No wonder you're wrong about everything. The Quran taking stories from the Torah has no bearing on the truth of either of them.

I don't applaud it

Nobody cares, unless you think you can use your disagreement to justify violence against people who do applaud such beliefs and values, as some of your fellow Muslims do, and as you in fact threatened to do in your previous persona here as eanassir. And don't try to pretend you're not the same person, nobody familiar with eanassir's posts will believe that. Your beliefs and values are stuck somewhere around the 7th or 8th century and are fundamentally incompatible with, and not welcome in, any civilized modern society.

 

[MHz]

Generally speaking the story in the Quran is similar, with some differences, as will be seen in the following posts:
1- Pharaoh was obliged to release the Children of Israel together with Moses .. because every first born of the Egyptians was dead by morning, including the first born son of Pharaoh himself.. this may be the same in both the Torah and the Quran interpretation.
2- Moses with his people hastened to depart by night .. this may be the same in both of the Torah and the Quran.
3- The host of Pharaoh were impeded and hindered so that they might be late and will come to meet the Children of Israel at sunrise time on the sea shore. Such hindering was by means of storms, heavy rain, thunder and bright lightning.
4- God revealed to Moses to strike the sea with his staff (not to point with his hand) then the sea was parted and each partition was like a high hill or mountain.
Then the Children of Israel crossed on a dry land in the bottom of that sea, until they completed their crossing to the other side, when Pharaoh followed them with his host and when these were in the middle of the sea, the water came upon them as was it before (not by the hand of Moses.)

I even gave you the chapter and you come back with this version that is totally different.

Ex:14:2:
Speak unto the children of Israel,
that they turn and encamp before Pi-hahiroth,
between Migdol and the sea,
over against Baal-zephon:
before it shall ye encamp by the sea.

Migdol is in the north and that is where Moses turned south and Pharaoh was at Pi-hahiroth that is why they camped before that place. Notice that the Red Sea is south of there so Moses was at some water north of that place and that puts him at the Bitter Lakes, the only body of water around.
There was that so hard??

Ex:14:21:
And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea;
and the LORD caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night,
and made the sea dry land,
and the waters were divided.

Wind moved the water from the small lake to the bigger lake and when the wind stopped the water came back from the north to the south, one direction and no tunnel to walk through.

There was no hindering, Pharaoh and the army stayed on the road so as they went back east from Migdol until they could go south. They got to Pi-hahiroth before dark and they stayed there till morning and then they headed north across the desert and came to the Bitter Lakes where Moses had been camped the night before. They tried to follow and the water came back as a 'flash flood'.
Any more than that and you are overworking the story.

See if you can piece it together now.

Your post #120 above is an excellent and hopeful statement of values and beliefs and I applaud you for it.

LOL, that would be two homeless people who joined up to survive rather than anything our society represents as we are bigoted and selfish in that the ones who have a 'position above the lowest level' are more interested in getting higher than making sure the ones below them are getting all the assistance they need. The two most corrupt organizations around are the medical and legal professions. For all the Bibles in a Courthouse the ones who should be swearing on them are the Lawyers and Judges considering the amount of lies that come out of their faces. The Law Society is there to protect them from public complaints and the College of Physicians and Surgeons is the equal for the medical profession.

Hopeful is a long way from what actually happens. Respect for your elders (that deserve it). How about taking down the ones that don't deserve it, that never seems to come into play and Hillary is the best example at the moment. She seems to be getting a lot of protection when she deserves to be run out of town on a rail and that was a long time ago. There is no attempt of people like you or Ron to clean up any injustices, as long as you get what you want out of society it can deal with others in any form they see fit including killing them without any punishment coming down on them.

You are as extreme in one direction as you accuse selfsame as being. Two people that are wrong that agree with each other doesn't make them right no matter how much you wish it was true. Carry on, the laugh factor makes reading your posts worthwhile.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

. There is no attempt of people like you or Ron to clean up any injustices...

And how do you know that? You don't know either of us outside of this place, and you can take it as given that nobody talks here about everything they do, what you see of anyone here is only what they choose to show. You're doing your usual straw man and ad hominem fallacies again and assuming you know things you don't know and can't possibly know.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Some have made the love of God the foundation of morality. This, too, is but a branch of our moral duties, which are generally divided into duties to God and duties to man. If we did a good act merely from the love of God and a belief that it is pleasing to Him, whence arises the morality of the Atheist? It is idle to say, as some do, that no such being exists. We have the same evidence of the fact as of most of those we act on, to-wit: their own affirmations, and their reasonings in support of them. have observed, indeed, generally, that while in protestant countries the defections from the Platonic Christianity of the priests is to Deism, in catholic countries they are to Atheism. Diderot, D'Alembert, D'Holbach, Condorcet, are known to have been among the most virtuous of men. Their virtue, then, must have had some other foundation than the love of God.

--Thomas Jefferson, letter to Thomas Law, June 13, 1814

 

[Curious Cdn]

Some have made the love of God the foundation of morality. This, too, is but a branch of our moral duties, which are generally divided into duties to God and duties to man. If we did a good act merely from the love of God and a belief that it is pleasing to Him, whence arises the morality of the Atheist? It is idle to say, as some do, that no such being exists. We have the same evidence of the fact as of most of those we act on, to-wit: their own affirmations, and their reasonings in support of them. have observed, indeed, generally, that while in protestant countries the defections from the Platonic Christianity of the priests is to Deism, in catholic countries they are to Atheism. Diderot, D'Alembert, D'Holbach, Condorcet, are known to have been among the most virtuous of men. Their virtue, then, must have had some other foundation than the love of God.

--Thomas Jefferson, letter to Thomas Law, June 13, 1814

... a sermon to his slaves ...

 

[Ludlow]

Some have made the love of God the foundation of morality. This, too, is but a branch of our moral duties, which are generally divided into duties to God and duties to man. If we did a good act merely from the love of God and a belief that it is pleasing to Him, whence arises the morality of the Atheist? It is idle to say, as some do, that no such being exists. We have the same evidence of the fact as of most of those we act on, to-wit: their own affirmations, and their reasonings in support of them. have observed, indeed, generally, that while in protestant countries the defections from the Platonic Christianity of the priests is to Deism, in catholic countries they are to Atheism. Diderot, D'Alembert, D'Holbach, Condorcet, are known to have been among the most virtuous of men. Their virtue, then, must have had some other foundation than the love of God.

--Thomas Jefferson, letter to Thomas Law, June 13, 1814

It's good to have heros. Slave owners talkin bout virtues is what I like to hear. He probably fed em good.

 

[Curious Cdn]

It's good to have heros. Slave owners talkin bout virtues is what I like to hear. He probably fed em good.

He left a lot of cafe-au-lait coloured descendants named "Jefferson" after his frequent trips to the slave quarters. He was an Enlightened Philosophe, after all and he had a lot to teach the naygruz who worked his plantation.

 

[selfsame]

I even gave you the chapter and you come back with this version that is totally different.

Ex:14:2:
Speak unto the children of Israel,
that they turn and encamp before Pi-hahiroth,
between Migdol and the sea,
over against Baal-zephon:
before it shall ye encamp by the sea.

Migdol is in the north and that is where Moses turned south and Pharaoh was at Pi-hahiroth that is why they camped before that place. Notice that the Red Sea is south of there so Moses was at some water north of that place and that puts him at the Bitter Lakes, the only body of water around.
There was that so hard??

Ex:14:21:
And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea;
and the LORD caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night,
and made the sea dry land,
and the waters were divided.

Wind moved the water from the small lake to the bigger lake and when the wind stopped the water came back from the north to the south, one direction and no tunnel to walk through.

There was no hindering, Pharaoh and the army stayed on the road so as they went back east from Migdol until they could go south. They got to Pi-hahiroth before dark and they stayed there till morning and then they headed north across the desert and came to the Bitter Lakes where Moses had been camped the night before. They tried to follow and the water came back as a 'flash flood'.

Any more than that and you are overworking the story.

See if you can piece it together now.

The available Torah (included in the Old Testament) is not the original Torah of Moses and the prophets after him, but it is the Torah written by the priest Ezra following their return from the captivity of Babylon.

Anyhow, not all of it is distorted. Certainly it includes many true things in addition to the distortions.

In the Quran, God tells us the same story but somewhat different from that of the Torah of Ezra.

When Pharaoh and his people were obliged to release the Children of Israel, God commanded them to hurry and go in their Exodus, for Pharaoh would pursue after them, so they went out by night and they went eastward.

Then Pharaoh changed his mind, and thought it was better to bring them back to Egypt, so he sent 'gathereres' into the [nearby] cities so as to collect an army, and he went after Moses and his people.
So Pharaoh with his people had chariots and horses and they moved faster than the people of Moses who went walking and riding on animals and driving their cattle ..etc.

But God's plan was to bring Pharaoh and his host to meet Moses and his people at sun-rise time and on the sea shore, so that He would save Moses and his people and drown Pharaoh and his host to make it a lesson to all mankind of His might and that He helps the believers against the disbelievers, even though the disbelievers are powerful and the believers are weak.

So God made the two seas: the Nile River and the Red Sea to surge with storms, and the water evaporated and came down as heavy rain with many thunder claps and lightning ... and that was to hinder or thwart Pharaoh so that he could not approach the Children of Israel till they reach the sea shore at sun-rise time.

I don't know the mechanism by which such strange event occurred so that the water parted and a dry road (in fact 12 dry roads) appeared on the bottom of the sea.

Moreover, I don't know whether Moses crossed the Red Sea or a great lake, but in the interpretation, the interpreter said the Red Sea.

Therefore, now I will tell you some of the ayat concerning this incident:

This aya was miraculously interpreted which none of Muslims or non-Muslims could reach to its true meaning other than the interpreter of the Quran and the Bible: Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly, the apostle of the Christ, who was sent by the Christ to interpret the Quran to the world and to teach them the true monotheism and the exclusive devotion to God alone.

Quran 2: 19-20, which means:
{19. Or [their likeness is] like [a people overwhelmed with] a cloud, laden with heavy rain from the sky; in [that cloud] is darkness, thunder and lightning;
they thrust their fingers in their ears because of the [blast of the] thunder-claps, for the fearing of death;
and, surely, God ever has the non-believers in His grasp [: they cannot escape from Him however cautious they are.]

20. The lightning almost snatched away their sight off them [due to its sharp light.]
As often as it flashed forth for them they walked in its [light], and when it darkened against them they stood still.
If God had willed, He could have taken away their hearing and their sight.
Surely, God is All-Able to do anything. o}
....................................................................

20 o The explanation of these two ayat:
God also likened [the hypocrites among Mohammed's people] to the people of Pharaoh [when they pursued Moses and his people by night];
so God overwhelmed them with the cloud, rain, darkness, lightning and thunder in order that they might refrain from their aggression and leave be the Children of Israel whom they were pursuing.
But they did not refrain from their wickedness, and they started to walk when the lightning shed light before them, and stop when it was dark, because their journey was by night and they went on pursuing them until they approached them at morning; so God drowned them in the sea according to their stubbornness.

Therefore, likewise, the hypocrites among your people, Mohammed, if they do not refrain from their wickedness and reform their work, then God will drown them as did He drown Pharaoh and his host.
[But He did not take away their hearing and their sight, in order to drown them in the Red Sea, because of their stubbornness.

The interpretation is by Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly, the apostle of the Christ.

 

[Ludlow]

The available Torah (included in the Old Testament) is not the original Torah of Moses and the prophets after him, but it is the Torah written by the priest Ezra following their return from the captivity of Babylon.

Anyhow, not all of it is distorted. Certainly it includes many true things in addition to the distortions.

In the Quran, God tells us the same story but somewhat different from that of the Torah of Ezra.

When Pharaoh and his people were obliged to release the Children of Israel, God commanded them to hurry and go in their Exodus, for Pharaoh would pursue after them, so they went out by night and they went eastward.

Then Pharaoh changed his mind, and thought it was better to bring them back to Egypt, so he sent 'gathereres' into the [nearby] cities so as to collect an army, and he went after Moses and his people.
So Pharaoh with his people had chariots and horses and they moved faster than the people of Moses who went walking and riding on animals and driving their cattle ..etc.

But God's plan was to bring Pharaoh and his host to meet Moses and his people at sun-rise time and on the sea shore, so that He would save Moses and his people and drown Pharaoh and his host to make it a lesson to all mankind of His might and that He helps the believers against the disbelievers, even though the disbelievers are powerful and the believers are weak.

So God made the two seas: the Nile River and the Red Sea to surge with storms, and the water evaporated and came down as heavy rain with many thunder claps and lightning ... and that was to hinder or thwart Pharaoh so that he could not approach the Children of Israel till they reach the sea shore at sun-rise time.

I don't know the mechanism by which such strange event occurred so that the water parted and a dry road (in fact 12 dry roads) appeared on the bottom of the sea.

Moreover, I don't know whether Moses crossed the Red Sea or a great lake, but in the interpretation, the interpreter said the Red Sea.

Therefore, now I will tell you some of the ayat concerning this incident:

This aya was miraculously interpreted which none of Muslims or non-Muslims could reach to its true meaning other than the interpreter of the Quran and the Bible: Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly, the apostle of the Christ, who was sent by the Christ to interpret the Quran to the world and to teach them the true monotheism and the exclusive devotion to God alone.

Quran 2: 19-20, which means:
{19. Or [their likeness is] like [a people overwhelmed with] a cloud, laden with heavy rain from the sky; in [that cloud] is darkness, thunder and lightning;
they thrust their fingers in their ears because of the [blast of the] thunder-claps, for the fearing of death;
and, surely, God ever has the non-believers in His grasp [: they cannot escape from Him however cautious they are.]

20. The lightning almost snatched away their sight off them [due to its sharp light.]
As often as it flashed forth for them they walked in its [light], and when it darkened against them they stood still.
If God had willed, He could have taken away their hearing and their sight.
Surely, God is All-Able to do anything. o}
....................................................................

20 o The explanation of these two ayat:
God also likened [the hypocrites among Mohammed's people] to the people of Pharaoh [when they pursued Moses and his people by night];
so God overwhelmed them with the cloud, rain, darkness, lightning and thunder in order that they might refrain from their aggression and leave be the Children of Israel whom they were pursuing.
But they did not refrain from their wickedness, and they started to walk when the lightning shed light before them, and stop when it was dark, because their journey was by night and they went on pursuing them until they approached them at morning; so God drowned them in the sea according to their stubbornness.

Therefore, likewise, the hypocrites among your people, Mohammed, if they do not refrain from their wickedness and reform their work, then God will drown them as did He drown Pharaoh and his host.
[But He did not take away their hearing and their sight, in order to drown them in the Red Sea, because of their stubbornness.

The interpretation is by Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly, the apostle of the Christ.

So Al Hilly Billy knew Jesus then. eh Selfsap?