The Proudest Hour of the Prolife Movement.

[gerryh]

Hey coldstream- my wife had to have 2 consecutive abortions (early term) cos the pregnancy was going to KILL her. I don't care about anyones "faith" or "beliefs" but if ANYONE had stepped in and tried to stop the docs from saving her by ending the obviously failed pregnancy, well let's just say she would not have been the only one to die either time (tho I guess if she'd died the first time the second wouldn't have happened and there'd be a tiny, deformed fetus on life supposrt somewheres along with a pile of dead fundies and one dead mabudon)

How about you elaborate on this a bit. My wife, with our last one, got puliminary embolisms (That's multiple blood clots in her lungs) at 12 weeks gestation. She had to go on 3 injections of heperain per day for the entire term. We were bombarded by our family GP up to 20 weeks, telling us we should abort because the risk to my wife AND the fetus were too great to continue the pregnancy....the original specialist quit when we refused to abort. My wife made it through the pregnancy and we ended up with an 8lb. 11 oz, 4 week early baby boy..... perfectly healthy, and Karrie can attest to how good a boy he is now..14 years later...... So...... doctors can say all kinds of things when it comes to abortion and pregnancy..... doesn't mean the "dire consequences" are really as "dire" as they like to predict.

 

[Colpy]

Hey coldstream- my wife had to have 2 consecutive abortions (early term) cos the pregnancy was going to KILL her. I don't care about anyones "faith" or "beliefs" but if ANYONE had stepped in and tried to stop the docs from saving her by ending the obviously failed pregnancy, well let's just say she would not have been the only one to die either time (tho I guess if she'd died the first time the second wouldn't have happened and there'd be a tiny, deformed fetus on life supposrt somewheres along with a pile of dead fundies and one dead mabudon)

There is a middle road here.....

This subject always seems to polarize everyone....

To me the idea that a woman is expected to die before having an abortion is an extremist position.

So is the idea that it is OK to bash in a full term baby's head and scramble its brains while it is in the birth canal.....a perfectly legal act when there is no abortion law.

There is a middle ground.....

 

[karrie]

How about you elaborate on this a bit. My wife, with our last one, got puliminary embolisms (That's multiple blood clots in her lungs) at 12 weeks gestation. She had to go on 3 injections of heperain per day for the entire term. We were bombarded by our family GP up to 20 weeks, telling us we should abort because the risk to my wife AND the fetus were too great to continue the pregnancy....the original specialist quit when we refused to abort. My wife made it through the pregnancy and we ended up with an 8lb. 11 oz, 4 week early baby boy..... perfectly healthy, and Karrie can attest to how good a boy he is now..14 years later...... So...... doctors can say all kinds of things when it comes to abortion and pregnancy..... doesn't mean the "dire consequences" are really as "dire" as they like to predict.

yes, he is a great kid gerry. You did good there.

But realistically, if you'd made the opposite decision, do you think you'd want other people dissecting it and trying to tell you that you'd chosen wrong?

 

[gerryh]

yes, he is a great kid gerry. You did good there.

But realistically, if you'd made the opposite decision, do you think you'd want other people dissecting it and trying to tell you that you'd chosen wrong?

When people use their personal life experiences to support the killing of children....you're damn right I will dissect it. If they don't want thier personal choices disected then they should keep those choices personal. As soon as they put them out there as part of their argument, then they are free game.

 

[karrie]

When people use their personal life experiences to support the killing of children....you're damn right I will dissect it. If they don't want thier personal choices disected then they should keep those choices personal. As soon as they put them out there as part of their argument, then they are free game.

My point was that I doubt you'll change his view regarding the choice he made, regardless of how well you might dissect it. It's not like it's the sort of decision couples come by lightly, or one that they don't go over the many arguments for.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

I suspect Dr. Tiller shared that view, and likely had no hard time reconciling it with his religion,

Karrie, there are many good, honest Christians who see no conflict between abortion and their religion. Indeed, there are many prominent Catholics in USA who are pro choice (Biden, Pelosi, Kennedy etc.).

So there is no inherent conflict between abortion and religion. As far as I am aware, Bible doesn’t even mention the word ‘abortion’. It is the interpretation of some religious people that makes them oppose abortion. Argument against abortion is purely religious; it is based upon one interpretation of the Bible.

Which is fine, but it becomes particularly odious and repugnant when it is used to justify killing abortion doctors, bombing abortion clinics, killing clinic workers etc. The same philosophy which claims that abortion is murder, when extrapolated to the extreme, also claims that it is OK to kill the people involved in abortion.

 

[Machjo]

The prolife movement has won a big victory. A prolifer managed to murder the abortion providing doctor from Kansas, Dr. Tiller. Dr. Tiller specialized in performing late term abortions. Women who had life threatening conditions, or may suffer permanent, long lasting harm as a result of delivering the baby (and the condition could not be diagnose until lat en pregnancy) went to Dr. Tiller for an abortion.

Murder of Dr. Tiller is a great loss to women of USA, many of them will die as a result of late term complications in pregnancy. I understand there are only two more doctors in USA who perform such procedures.

But no doubt in prolife movement they are celebrating today, Champaign corks must be popping all over the place.

I read the far right website Townhall yesterday, and some posters were positively giddy with delight. They were celebrating the fact that supposedly thousands of babies will live, now that the ‘mass murderer of Kansas’ is dead.

Recently Homeland Secretary Janet Napolitano put out a directive regarding right wing terrorism, saying that terrorism from the right was a real threat. Right wing in USA went apoplectic over it. But the directive was prophetical in nature, as it turns out.

So congratulations, prolifers. You have won a big one. Osama Ben Laden salutes you, I am sure he could take a lesson or two from you.

Had it been a Muslims who'd done ths, we'd be hearing about 'Islamo-Fascists'.

I'm happy that so far we're remaining somewhat civilized and aren't stooping to the same level using such silly terms as 'Christo-Fascist'.

 

[karrie]

Had it been a Muslims who'd done ths, we'd be hearing about 'Islamo-Fascists'.

I'm happy that so far we're remaining somewhat civilized and aren't stooping to the same level using such silly terms as 'Christo-Fascist'.

I'm sure those who dig catch phrases like that will run with it.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Machjo, the terms fascist and Nazi have been used so many times, that they have lost their potency, their punch by now. Thus far right calls Obama a Fascist, a Nazi. Rush ‘Drug Addict’ Limbaugh calls Feminists Nazi (he calls them femiNazis).

Islamo-fascist, Christo-fascist, enviro-fascist, what is the difference? The word fascist and Nazi have lost most of their potency by now. Which is a shame.

 

[YukonJack]

SirJosephPorter, you might be well-advised to know - following your own definitions of certain words to Machjo - that "drug addict", "Messiah" and "Joan of Arc" have also lost their significance.

Not that they ever had any.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

SirJosephPorter, you might be well-advised to know - following your own definitions of certain words to Machjo - that "drug addict", "Messiah" and "Joan of Arc" have also lost their significance.

Not that they ever had any.

Good. Then I assume it doesn’t bother you any more that I refer to Limbaugh as a drug addict, Harper as the Messiah and Palin as Joan of arc.

 

[YukonJack]

"Good. Then I assume it doesn’t bother you any more that I refer to Limbaugh as a drug addict, Harper as the Messiah and Palin as Joan of arc."

Go right ahead! You only reveal to the world that you are a dolt.

Oh Oh!! Was that an insult or just patronizing?

 

[TenPenny]

Yes, Colpy, there is a middle ground.

And I don't think we need the government, or the religion of the day, or our next door neighbors, to tell us what it is.

Abortion is a very personal decision, and should be up to the people involved to decide how to handle it.

Period.

 

[Cliffy]

As I said to a catholic friend when he was on a rant about abortion, "If you don't like abortion, don't have one. What other people do is none of your business."

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Yes, Colpy, there is a middle ground.

And I don't think we need the government, or the religion of the day, or our next door neighbors, to tell us what it is.

Abortion is a very personal decision, and should be up to the people involved to decide how to handle it.

Period.

Quite right TenPenny, when left to individuals, I think most of them would make a reasonable decision (whether to have an abortion or not) in most circumstance.

Even prolifers make sane, reasonable decision man times, they decide to have abortion same as pro choice people. Prolifers talk a good talk, but when tires hit the road, many of them decide to get an abortion.

You remember, Reagan was strongly prolife. He won by landslide both times. One owner of an abortion clinic in the South remarked “if we decided not to give abortion to women who voted for Reagan, we will go out of business in a short order”.

I also remember reading in Christianity Today (a right wing religious magazine) a few years ago, where an anti-abortion activist was reciting his experience. He knew an ardent anti-abortion activist; she used to come to picket the abortion clinic every day. Her position was, abortion is always wrong, no exceptions.

Then all of a sudden, she stopped coming for the picket duty. Nobody in the prolife movement saw her for a long time. When they enquired about her, they found out that her daughter was raped, conceived as a result, and the woman decided that abortion was the best alternative for her daughter. But then, in good conscience, she could not picket the abortion clinic.

At least that woman was honest. Most women would get an abortion and continue picketing.

 

[Nuggler]

:angry3:"""Then all of a sudden, she stopped coming for the picket duty. Nobody in the prolife movement saw her for a long time. When they enquired about her, they found out that her daughter was raped, conceived as a result, and the woman decided that abortion was the best alternative for her daughter. But then, in good conscience, she could not picket the abortion clinic.

At least that woman was honest. Most women would get an abortion and continue picketing"""


Well, at least we know your thoughts on women, rotest: artist.

Says more about you than all the condescending drivel you post.

You and China related ??

 

[coldstream]

foxnews.com/story/0,2933,51981,00.html


(put a www before it or do a google search on Samuel Armas, spina bifida, 10 years, if you can't make the link work)

This is a story from a few weeks ago. It is a followup, 10 years later, to a very famous photograph of a 21 week old infant undergoing in utero surgery for spina bifida. It shows in the smaller photographs the small hand of the fetus grasping that of the surgeon. In fact now 90% of spina bifida babies are aborted. The reason is given is to save these children from a life without 'quality', a statement of stunning arrogance and presumption. Try telling that to this young man, an athlete and swimmer, not without challenges, but one who has built his own quality in life, as all of us have the right to do.

Now compare this surgeon's hand to that of Dr. Tiller's, who would have torn the fetus limb from limb, to save its 'quality of life'. This is the reality of abortion today. 99.99 per cent of them are about inconvenient and expensive young lives. Even before advent of unrestricted abortion, the life of mother, was justification for a medical abortion.. and that was it. In this day of age when C sections and an ever lowering threshold of development for survivability and viability of the fetus, the options to abortion hold in almost all instances.

The abortion lobby is adept at obfuscating the reality of abortion, and its caustic effect on society and on the mother. It's a fact that a first time abortion is the number one predictor, with the highest correlation of all known factors, of the development of breast cancer as well as other serious health consequences. The interruption of hormonal changes in pregnancy wreaks havoc on the immune system.

Post abortion mothers in most instances suffer from severe depression, to the point of a much higher incidence of substance abuse and suicide. So don't give me a lot of sob stories.. about the wonderful benefits of abortion. The reality is it victimizes both the child and the woman. And makes abortion doctors amongst the highest payed professionals in the world.

 

[Cliffy]

But are you willing to raise the child of a young girl who is emotionally too immature to raise it herself? Are you willing to rehabilitate children who were born to women who were incapable, emotionally and financially, to give the child a stable upbringing (drug addiction or poverty)? What would be the population of North America, with all its negative effects of environment and economy, be if abortion was illegal?

There are two sides to every story. But in the end, its none of your business what other people do with their lives. It is between them and their creator. Those who judge others based on their beliefs are just as likely to end up in hell. I believe Jesus said so.

 

[TenPenny]

I wonder how many people happily posting instructions on here for how others should live, have ever been in this position?

How many of you have had to consider whether to abort a pregnancy or not?

Put up, or shut up.

(For the record, I have been there).

 

[coldstream]

I wonder how many people happily posting instructions on here for how others should live, have ever been in this position?

Good grief, and that's more repugnant than deciding a sovereign, God given human life must die, to save someone else the inconvenience of carrying him to term, and the 'emotional stress' of giving him up for adoption if she is unable to care for him. To me that is epitomy of the logic of abortion (and a lot of other things in our modern world).. for radical self centredness above any sense of responsibility, in this instance to her child. :roll: