The Failings of the Modern Left

[Kreskin]

This is one of those pigeon-holed baloney articles that assumes that, for example, if you were against the war you had to be a commie-socialist. I think we discussed this in another thread, poeple are more complex than a political grid. Why is it that very few Republicans support the war anymore? Many who supported it admit it was a mistake. Have they all become commie-socialists? This guy happened to jump on Bush's war dance and wrote a book when he was certain the tickertape parades were going to happen. Rather than admit to be fooled he'll just keep pointing fingers at those who have nothing to do with the existing failed policies. He was quite wrong then, why listen to him again?

 

[darkbeaver]

The article is crap, thank-you ITN, I got as far as,"the new Iraq".

 

[I think not]

I would rather live under Saddam than under today's daily car bombings and religious crusades.

That's what you say, because I'm quite sure the worst you have ever experienced is a blackout.

Canada doesn't help oust NK because there isn't much to be gained except more chaos. What would be the end game? The political dynamics in the region? Would we go there to enforce democracy? Where will the resistance come from in the aftermath? How many years would troops need to be in North Korea to fight that resistance? How many caskets would have to be flown home and for how long? Just what gets accomplished?

You're turning daft, you're not getting it.

I want you to explain to me the morality of leaving millions in oppression.

 

[I think not]

ITN

I guess you and I will always be opposed on this subject. I don't believe might makes right. I don't think it was the U.S.'s job to bomb and kill the many thousands they did just to get rid of Saddam. Many people warned that Saddam's removal would cause a political vacuum and that civil war would be the result. The bombing and invasion of Iraq was wrong. Saddam was a bastard, but so is Mugabe, and so are the Saudi royal family, and many others.

Actually #juan, quite the contrary. You think we're opposed, but in reality we aren't.

I, like you cannot and would never even attempt to justify why Bush invaded Iraq.

My question still remains, what is the moral left going to do about the millions being oppressed around the world. Because in the past, they have done nothing.

 

[I think not]

ITN believes the world is a better place with greed as the motivator behind industry ...that prosperity and success are acceptable in a climate of global warming and respiratory failures increasing at an normous rate... Postmodernists don't care for absolutes of any kind and that includes acknowledging the failures of idologies that promulgate the cycles of death and destruction whether in the name of greed commerce and "prosperity" or religious fanaticism...

I really don't care what your perception of me is. Truly.

Since I posted this article, all those leaning to the left, have danced around the core issue. So I'll drop the PC crap and get right to the point.

The leftists morality is distorted. There are limits to morality when it barks from the left.

And I really don't care what the right of center are. This isn't the topic of this thread. And even if some of you want to drag to the usual "Well what the hell do you think the far right is?". The answer is irrelevent because it doesn't absolve the left from anything. You are guilty as sin.

I have long heard the arguments that the US invaded Iraq on false premises. True enough. I'll be the first to admit the US puts it's interests above all others. The US doesn't have friends, it has interests.

IF the US hadn't invaded Iraq, the left would be all cosy and comfy, perching itself on a mantle of morality, looking down upon everybody else. While the Husseins of the world pillage and kill their own countrymen.

Has there ever been a protest from the left regarding China? No.
Has there ever been a protest from the left regarding Somalia? No.
Has there ever been a protest from the left regarding Cuba? Certianly not, Castro is the lefts' poster boy.
Has there ever been a protest from the left regarding Iraq invading Kuwait? No.

Only when the US gets involved, right or wrong, the left goes haywire.

The left has lost all credibilty. The left is irrelevant. The left will fail, as it always has throughout history.

I'll leave you all to tell me, why millions rallied against deposing a fascist regime.
And when you are finished with that, then oblige me and tell me how long the left intended for Saddam Hussein to rule with an iron fist before anybody does something about it.

Words are cheap. Let's see some action.

 

[I think not]

The article is crap, thank-you ITN, I got as far as,"the new Iraq".

Of course it's crap, you're too embarassed to answer the main question of the article. :wave:

 

[Kreskin]

That's what you say, because I'm quite sure the worst you have ever experienced is a blackout.



You're turning daft, you're not getting it.

I want you to explain to me the morality of leaving millions in oppression.

Morality, is that excuse 16? You suddenly had a moral obligation to invade a country so the jihadists could unoppress them? How oppressed do you think those Iraqi Christian communities are these days? ITN, most of the world got it long ago. Now most of America is finally starting to get it. Too bad it took a double dose of numbnuts-in-chief before the fog lifted.

 

[I think not]

Morality, is that excuse 16? You suddenly had a moral obligation to invade a country so the jihadists could unoppress them? How oppressed do you think those Iraqi Christian communities are these days? ITN, most of the world got it long ago. Now most of America is finally starting to get it. Too bad it took a double dose of numbnuts-in-chief before the fog lifted.

Yes I'm familiar with your usual comment of "Americans don't get it". Canadian bigotry at its finest.

You still haven't answered my question, oh defender of the left.

Where is the morality of doing nothing?

 

[Kreskin]

Yes I'm familiar with your usual comment of "Americans don't get it". Canadian bigotry at its finest.

You still haven't answered my question, oh defender of the left.

Where is the morality of doing nothing?

I'm not defending the left, I'm tired of reading troll posts that spew redundant pigeon-holed nonsense.

Perhaps the morality comes from we not blowing the heads off of innocent children and the like for a pack of boldfaced lies by a disturbed nut in the oval office.

 

[L Gilbert]

Sitting on the sidelines passing judgment is just way too cool and much less expensive than actually doing something about it. Talk doesn't get anyone anywhere.

You are suggesting everyone shut up and haul out the nukes?
There are many kinds of talk, though. Egypt and Israel settled disputes with talk. Even China said it wants to settle disputes with Taiwan using talk.

 

[L Gilbert]

First, ITN doesn't believe that.

Second, the rise of modern capitalism over the past 200 years coincides with the greatest rise of living standards, the greatest advances in life spans and infant mortality, the greatest greatest medical advances, greatest technological advances, etc., in the history of humanity. That is not a coincidence.

All for our benefit and to hell with the planet. It'll backfire. We do live on this rock you know. We'll advance ourselves right into extinction if we aren't careful.

 

[L Gilbert]

This is one of those pigeon-holed baloney articles that assumes that, for example, if you were against the war you had to be a commie-socialist. I think we discussed this in another thread, poeple are more complex than a political grid. Why is it that very few Republicans support the war anymore? Many who supported it admit it was a mistake. Have they all become commie-socialists? This guy happened to jump on Bush's war dance and wrote a book when he was certain the tickertape parades were going to happen. Rather than admit to be fooled he'll just keep pointing fingers at those who have nothing to do with the existing failed policies. He was quite wrong then, why listen to him again?

"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof."
JK Galbraith

 

[L Gilbert]

That's what you say, because I'm quite sure the worst you have ever experienced is a blackout.



You're turning daft, you're not getting it.

I want you to explain to me the morality of leaving millions in oppression.

What's the advantage of replacing one oppression with another?

 

[L Gilbert]

Actually #juan, quite the contrary. You think we're opposed, but in reality we aren't.

I, like you cannot and would never even attempt to justify why Bush invaded Iraq.

My question still remains, what is the moral left going to do about the millions being oppressed around the world. Because in the past, they have done nothing.

I don't think much of anything has been done by very many, left or right.

 

[L Gilbert]

Of course it's crap, you're too embarassed to answer the main question of the article. :wave:

??? I didn't see a question in the article.

 

[L Gilbert]

Yes I'm familiar with your usual comment of "Americans don't get it". Canadian bigotry at its finest.

You still haven't answered my question, oh defender of the left.

Where is the morality of doing nothing?

It's up the stairs, to the left, down the hall 20 paces, a right, and through the door.
You mean what is the morality behind doing nothing? There isn't any. But then injecting one';s nose into others' business isn't exactly moral either, especially when you ignore crap going on in your own back yard.

 

[gopher]

```Has there ever been a protest from the left regarding China? No.```

You couldn't be more wrong: it was the liberals who condemned George Bush, Sr when he was the only leader in the world to defend the Beijing criminals during Tiananmen Square. As Casey Stengel used to say, 'you can look it up'.


```Has there ever been a protest from the left regarding Somalia? No.```

Has there ever been a protest from the right?


```Has there ever been a protest from the left regarding Cuba? Certianly not, Castro is the lefts' poster boy.```

It was Democratic president JFK who opened the door for refugees from Cuba when Castro took over. When they were closed, it was Democrat Jimmy Carter who opened the floodgates for Marielitos.

```Has there ever been a protest from the left regarding Iraq invading Kuwait? No.```

Was there a word from the right when Indonesian Hitlerite Suharto invaded East Timor and murdered over 200,000? No. Instead it was Republican Gerald Ford who applauded Suharto.

Did Republicans protest when Eisenhower allowed the CIA to invade Guatemala and kill 300,000 Maya Indians?

Did Republicans protest when Reagan had Negroponte created death squads in Guatemala and kill another 300,000 Mayans?

The left may have its shortcomings but nothing in human history matches the stupidity and political criminality of the right.

 

[gopher]

I, like you cannot and would never even attempt to justify why Bush invaded Iraq.


http://www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/Di...=January2007&file=World_News2007012625224.xml

US invasion was ‘idiotic’, says Iraqi vice-president
Web posted at: 1/26/2007 2:52:24
Source ::: Agencies davos • The US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003 was an “idiot decision” and Iraqi troops now need to secure Baghdad to ensure the country’s future, Vice-President Adel Abdul Mahdi said yesterday.
“Iraq was put under occupation, which was an idiot decision,” Mahdi said at the World Economic Forum here. Mahdi said the Iraqi government planned to bring troops in to Baghdad from surrounding areas and said it was “a technical question” for the United States to decide whether to deploy more soldiers.
President George W Bush plans to send another 21,500 troops to Iraq, a move widely criticised in the United States. On Wednesday, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee voted against the decision, which is due to go before the Senate next week.
“If we can win this war in Baghdad then I think we can change the course of events,” Mahdi told a panel on the state of affairs in Iraq. “As Iraqis, we think we need more (Iraqi) troops in Baghdad, and we are calling for some regiments to come from other parts of the country,” he said.
Mahdi’s party, the powerful Shi’ite Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq, was one of the exiled opposition parties consulted by Washington as it planned the invasion. Its leader Abdul Aziz Al Hakim is a key figure behind the US-backed national unity government.

Bombs kill 34 in Baghdad
In Baghdad, meanwhile, bombs killed at least 34 people but Iraq’s prime minister vowed a crackdown in the capital would leave militants nowhere to hide. In a speech to parliament, Nuri Al Maliki urged politicians on all sides to support his security plan, backed by 17,000 US reinforcements and seen by many as a last chance to halt sectarian violence in the capital.
“There will be no safe haven — no school, no home, no (Sunni) mosque or Shi’ite mosque. They will all be raided if they are turned into a launch pad for terrorism, even the headquarters of political parties,” he said. Maliki said his determination had already borne fruit. “I know that senior criminals have left Baghdad, others have fled the country. This is good, this shows that our message is being taken seriously,” he said.
Since Maliki announced his plan earlier this month there have been a series of bombings and dozens of bodies continue to be found dumped in the city, apparent victims of death squads. Thirty-three were found on Wednesday alone. A car bomb ripped through a shopping district in Karrada in central Baghdad, killing 26 people and wounding 64, a police source said. Another car bomb and a motorcycle bomb exploded in other markets, killing five people, while a roadside bomb killed three, police said.



Contrary to what some believe or may want to believe, the left (along with a few on the right) had warned about this beforehand.

 

[vinod1975]

let me read though this entire thread

 

[I think not]

I'm not defending the left, I'm tired of reading troll posts that spew redundant pigeon-holed nonsense.

Took over 9000 posts to be called a troll. Not bad.

Perhaps the morality comes from we not blowing the heads off of innocent children and the like for a pack of boldfaced lies by a disturbed nut in the oval office.

Either way, you do nothing. Show me a part of the world in turmoil where the left is actively doing something.

L Gilbert, one liners aren't worth responsing too.