The Church is not the Enemy
- Thread starter Hank C Cheyenne
- Start date
Because non of the non-religious folk on this lovely little forum ever judge Christians solely for having these beliefs...
And do the religious judge the non religious beliefs? You want us to be silent and look the other way at what religion is doing now and in the past to human beings. It really does upset that twinks feelings have been hurt, I like her. But I am going to expose the fundies everytime they post their ilk.
RE: The Church is not the
I don't want you to look the other way. I'd just prefer that people understand that what is done is done by people not by religions. If we use the excuse (and it is an excuse) that religion made them do it then they are never responsible for their actions. And they are responsible.
And it's not about hurt feelings. It's about what's good for the goose. Many don't want religion thrown on them. Fine. I've not done it. Yet I'm made fun of because I believe. I'm not making fun of anyone here for not believing. I do find it odd that both sides can't seem to see that they are doing to each other what they accuse the other of doing.
I don't want you to look the other way. I'd just prefer that people understand that what is done is done by people not by religions. If we use the excuse (and it is an excuse) that religion made them do it then they are never responsible for their actions. And they are responsible.
And it's not about hurt feelings. It's about what's good for the goose. Many don't want religion thrown on them. Fine. I've not done it. Yet I'm made fun of because I believe. I'm not making fun of anyone here for not believing. I do find it odd that both sides can't seem to see that they are doing to each other what they accuse the other of doing.
Re: RE: The Church is not the
with much respect..(honest) twinks. ........ "religious " ideation that becomes fixated and extreme is the componant motivator for much of human behavior........BOTH productive and DESTRUCTIVE.
an aside..... but many of us "poke holes " at the beliefs themselves ..........not the people believing. Beliefs that have no scientific /logical /rational basis are open and fair game .....particularly now....in a more enlightened world. It is also understood that beliefs bring comfort, direction and many constructive things for many people. Sadly.....like any good thing......when it gets extreme or is "promoted" it loses the original value.
Many of these beliefs have been programmed since early childhood. and to counter them...... break away from them is as much a challenge as is detox from a potent drug. Many of us have succeeded in doing just that. ........and it is not easy......but inner freedom one attains is incredible. Things become clearer, objective, and a lot more rational. Getting rid of all the guilt induced by religion is the biggest challenge of all......as guilt induction is the most powerful control mechanism. IMHO.....religion uses TWO human factors to control their following: FEAR and GUILT. Both are deadly to the psychological make up of a person. And they strip away the individual uniqueness of a person, the self confidence , and the inner peace . But it is a complex psychological issue ...as well as a "religious " issue. no easy answers to this one.
Twila said:
with much respect..(honest) twinks. ........ "religious " ideation that becomes fixated and extreme is the componant motivator for much of human behavior........BOTH productive and DESTRUCTIVE.
an aside..... but many of us "poke holes " at the beliefs themselves ..........not the people believing. Beliefs that have no scientific /logical /rational basis are open and fair game .....particularly now....in a more enlightened world. It is also understood that beliefs bring comfort, direction and many constructive things for many people. Sadly.....like any good thing......when it gets extreme or is "promoted" it loses the original value.
Many of these beliefs have been programmed since early childhood. and to counter them...... break away from them is as much a challenge as is detox from a potent drug. Many of us have succeeded in doing just that. ........and it is not easy......but inner freedom one attains is incredible. Things become clearer, objective, and a lot more rational. Getting rid of all the guilt induced by religion is the biggest challenge of all......as guilt induction is the most powerful control mechanism. IMHO.....religion uses TWO human factors to control their following: FEAR and GUILT. Both are deadly to the psychological make up of a person. And they strip away the individual uniqueness of a person, the self confidence , and the inner peace . But it is a complex psychological issue ...as well as a "religious " issue. no easy answers to this one.
I'm sorry Twinks I should have wrote in my opinion at the end of that .I really meant no offense to anyone 
Religions just not for me and the clowns that show up at my door pushing it are the weakest looking people i've ever seen :wink:I took my daughter to bible camp this last summer and the people seemmmed to be giving me a wide berth :? The only ones that said a word to me were the bigger guys and it was almost like they were measuring me up like I was going to cause a big fight or something it was very strange .Needless to say she won't be going back .I've found a nice YMCA camp no religion involved for her to go too next year 8)
Religions just not for me and the clowns that show up at my door pushing it are the weakest looking people i've ever seen :wink:I took my daughter to bible camp this last summer and the people seemmmed to be giving me a wide berth :? The only ones that said a word to me were the bigger guys and it was almost like they were measuring me up like I was going to cause a big fight or something it was very strange .Needless to say she won't be going back .I've found a nice YMCA camp no religion involved for her to go too next year 8)
unclepercy said:
actually percy........ya don't get the picture at all. (sorry ). That line about taking the heat was a JOKE.
I have a saying, its not God I have a problem with, its some of the folks who claim to represent him.
The radical right claims any idea that does not fit into their narrow little view of the world, is an immediate threat to themselves and to civilization itself. I don't believe everything I hear from the left as gospel anymore than I do the right. I just seems to me that the church folks want to run democracy in their own image and likeness. It has become more about power and politics, than it has to do with saving souls at it were.
The left has some bitter biting remarks that are not always helpful but some of the goofh stuff peddled by these so called Christians is just too much.
I have friends who are supposedly motivated by the Holy Spirit or whatever. They claim there is a gtreat spiritual war on all around us and well, holy ghosts, evil spirits, devils, and angels and give me a break.
This is the twenty first century and these people want to go back to the dark ages.
In some cases the Easter Bunny has more credibility.
The you have major religious leaders, like Pat Roberts who comes out advocating Murder of duly elected leaders like Hugo Chavez.
And yest Chavez was elected, in supervised elections.
When clergy, Christian, Muslim or otherwise advocates murder,
with the ten commandments and all, you have to wonder where the hell the faith is going.
You see most of the people are bigots, and narrow minded busy bodies, who want to enact laws demanding how I live. These folks exist on the left and the right and frankly I'm tired of them.
Quite frankly its time they mind their own business and tended their own garden.
Like I said, I don't have a problem with folks believing in God, but I sure have a problem with the evangelical right trying to legislate its narrow religious agenda on the rest of us.
The radical right claims any idea that does not fit into their narrow little view of the world, is an immediate threat to themselves and to civilization itself. I don't believe everything I hear from the left as gospel anymore than I do the right. I just seems to me that the church folks want to run democracy in their own image and likeness. It has become more about power and politics, than it has to do with saving souls at it were.
The left has some bitter biting remarks that are not always helpful but some of the goofh stuff peddled by these so called Christians is just too much.
I have friends who are supposedly motivated by the Holy Spirit or whatever. They claim there is a gtreat spiritual war on all around us and well, holy ghosts, evil spirits, devils, and angels and give me a break.
This is the twenty first century and these people want to go back to the dark ages.
In some cases the Easter Bunny has more credibility.
The you have major religious leaders, like Pat Roberts who comes out advocating Murder of duly elected leaders like Hugo Chavez.
And yest Chavez was elected, in supervised elections.
When clergy, Christian, Muslim or otherwise advocates murder,
with the ten commandments and all, you have to wonder where the hell the faith is going.
You see most of the people are bigots, and narrow minded busy bodies, who want to enact laws demanding how I live. These folks exist on the left and the right and frankly I'm tired of them.
Quite frankly its time they mind their own business and tended their own garden.
Like I said, I don't have a problem with folks believing in God, but I sure have a problem with the evangelical right trying to legislate its narrow religious agenda on the rest of us.
damngrumpy said:
BRAVO!!!
............further to that.........I could care less if folks "believe" in the tooth fairy......... as long as they do NOT FOIST that belief on me. They want "religion" go for it.......but again....same principle. Just don't come selling it at my door. (for that matter don't come selling anything at my door :wink: Ya know, scientists don't force their facts on anyone. The facts speak for themselves.....and folks can take it or leave it. ........depending on how enlightened and progressive they want to be.
RE: The Church is not the
Actually, Mrmom. I think it is I who owe you an apology. Seems that pms has me its grasp. I'm bitchy today and don't know why. Normally nothing like what you said would have affected me one way or the other. I'm usually pretty secure in my belief's regardless of what anyone says. Except, it's seems, when during pms. so, please accept my apologies. I've let emotion and hormones runa way with my ability to function as a normal human being today.
Actually, Mrmom. I think it is I who owe you an apology. Seems that pms has me its grasp. I'm bitchy today and don't know why. Normally nothing like what you said would have affected me one way or the other. I'm usually pretty secure in my belief's regardless of what anyone says. Except, it's seems, when during pms. so, please accept my apologies. I've let emotion and hormones runa way with my ability to function as a normal human being today.
No apologies needed hear Twinks :wink: Nothing you said in anyway bothered me .I just hope my usual not thinking before i say disease didn't upset ya in your condition :wink:
:wink:
Hmmm got that angle figured out already eh .I feel sorry for your husband he's not getting away with anything :lol: :lol: :lol:
Nope he'll have to figure that out on his own :lol: Just like i did but at least i got away with some stuff for a few years :wink:
Re: RE: The Church is not the
So glad you're not upset. The religion thing is such a personal issue that it certainly can happen.
I used to be one of those nasty, religion bashing people. I was as offensive as the bible hugging types who can't say anything without referring to their book. Took me a long time to learn tolerance and to find out that there are "normal" born again folk out there. I'd had some rather unpleasant experiences with some of the more, shall we say, enthusiastic born agains, and it had soured my entire outlook.
I'm all for any belief system that gives one peace, strength and inner knowledge. The caveat being that they not push it on anyone else. I've never known you to be pushy about your beliefs so no matter what religion you align yourself with, I have absolutely no quarrel with how you practice it.
Like Pea often says, though, if one does not want their religion challenged, ya gotta keep it private like yer underwear. My own beliefs fall into the neo-Pagan category and, you may have noticed, have rarely been named here in open forum. I find it tiresome to attempt to educate those with the knee-jerk christian reaction and would rather spend my time playing Solitaire than involving myself in those conversations.
Anyway, I'm glad you're not taking the tone of this thread personally. I know people would not want to hurt your feelings!!
Yi Twila ... I can certainly identify with you! Now and then I get all hormonal (menopausal in my case) and ride in here on a broomstick. Worst part is making the damn apologies afterward!Twila said:
So glad you're not upset. The religion thing is such a personal issue that it certainly can happen.
I used to be one of those nasty, religion bashing people. I was as offensive as the bible hugging types who can't say anything without referring to their book. Took me a long time to learn tolerance and to find out that there are "normal" born again folk out there. I'd had some rather unpleasant experiences with some of the more, shall we say, enthusiastic born agains, and it had soured my entire outlook.
I'm all for any belief system that gives one peace, strength and inner knowledge. The caveat being that they not push it on anyone else. I've never known you to be pushy about your beliefs so no matter what religion you align yourself with, I have absolutely no quarrel with how you practice it.
Like Pea often says, though, if one does not want their religion challenged, ya gotta keep it private like yer underwear. My own beliefs fall into the neo-Pagan category and, you may have noticed, have rarely been named here in open forum. I find it tiresome to attempt to educate those with the knee-jerk christian reaction and would rather spend my time playing Solitaire than involving myself in those conversations.
Anyway, I'm glad you're not taking the tone of this thread personally. I know people would not want to hurt your feelings!!
A Pagan eh Cosmo that explains a lot :lol: :lol: Well if thats the case you should no who my avatar is :wink:
:lol: :lol: MrMom ... wrong diety, emblem upside down. See what I mean about educating folk?
FYI ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-pagan
Mad Hatter ... thanks for your positive comment. I do stand by the rest of the post though, that I can still become that snarly feline when anyone pushes any religious beliefs upon me. I don't let any of the fanatics off the hook, but any true believer who doesn't need to convert me to affirm their religious choice is okay by me. Live and let live.
FYI ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-pagan
Mad Hatter ... thanks for your positive comment. I do stand by the rest of the post though, that I can still become that snarly feline when anyone pushes any religious beliefs upon me. I don't let any of the fanatics off the hook, but any true believer who doesn't need to convert me to affirm their religious choice is okay by me.
Live and let live.