Teddy Bear Grief

[JLM]

I have decided that from now on I am going to ignore you completely. When I see your name, I will skip the post completely. You have not once added something constructive to any discussion. I'm tempted to say quite a few other things but will not. You aren't worth my time or effort.

I must say I take slight offence at the implication that any grief I have shown is "fake" or not real. I imagine many others would too. If you don't get it, that's one thing. Accusing others of faking it is quite another thing. For those of us who either shared Jack's beliefs or had a chance to meet him this was big shock and is a loss as he will no longer be there. I didn't particularly care when Michael Jackson died, but I did not question the grief of those who mourned him, for whatever reason. It's quite difficult, if not impossible to fake the mourning of someone's death.

Good response, I guess some people are just born flakes! Like you I didn't spend too many weeks grieving over Jackson.

 

[Colpy]

Okay....

I restrained myself until he was buried out of respect for the man....................I do think he was a decent guy......just that and no more.

I was saddened slightly at his passing, he took on his disease, and the last election campaign, with bravery and enthusiasm.

BUT!!!!

The canonization of him is beyond ludicrous.

He had glaring faults. Hypocrisy not the least of them...........a certain naivete that approached stupidity on policy issues........and, IMHO, he destroyed the last vestiges of what was best in the old NDP......the Christian, rural, grass-roots social conscience of Tommy Douglas et al.

To see on Facebook posts wishing it had been Harper!!!!! Enthusiastically endorsed by the ignorant.......

How UNclassy, how crass..........

It somehow cheapens Layton's passing.......

 

[JLM]

Okay....

I restrained myself until he was buried out of respect for the man....................I do think he was a decent guy......just that and no more.

I was saddened slightly at his passing, he took on his disease, and the last election campaign, with bravery and enthusiasm.

BUT!!!!

The canonization of him is beyond ludicrous.

He had glaring faults. Hypocrisy not the least of them...........a certain naivete that approached stupidity on policy issues........and, IMHO, he destroyed the last vestiges of what was best in the old NDP......the Christian, rural, grass-roots social conscience of Tommy Douglas et al.

To see on Facebook posts wishing it had been Harper!!!!! Enthusiastically endorsed by the ignorant.......

How UNclassy, how crass..........

It somehow cheapens Layton's passing.......

I think you are missing the whole point Colpy, he wasn't "cannonized" for his politics! Everyone in the world has glaring faults and every person to some degree is a hypocrite. He championed the common man, spoke and acted according to what he believed in and tried to improve the lot of both the down trodden and the average person and above all put others ahead of himself. The fact that his politics might not work is not what yesterday's service is all about. It's not a time to compare Layton and Harper, it's like comparing apples and oranges. Maybe the quality of a man is how he is judged by others. The fact is the world is a better place because he spent some time in it.

P.S. That should be "canonized".

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

There are a lot of people who held Jack up as the last honest politician. I didn't see it that way at all. I saw him as conniving, underhanded and out of his league, but I still kind of liked him. Personally, his chest pounding regarding prisoner abuse in Afghanistan was what I found very unsavory. It showed me that he was willing to throw our soldiers under the bus for political points. When that abuse claim proved to be unfounded I don't remember him getting out front and retracting his accusations. For me that was pretty personal, not just because of my service, but because both my kid and my brothers kid are serving veterans of that war.

Still, when he was hit by this 2nd bout of cancer I was taken off guard and when he died I was sad. His politics and his tactics made him anything but a Saint. Those who now wait in the wings ready to jump on anyone who is critical of Jack Layton remind me somewhat of the zealots who, after 911, were at the ready when anyone questioned the policy of the Bush Administration.

 

[SLM]

The Sunday morning news is rife with post funeral analysis.

Remember the man, not the myth

timestranscript.com - The Canonization of Jack Layton | by W.E. (bill) belliveau - Breaking News, New Brunswick, Canada

Late NDP chief 'our Diana,' pollster says - Winnipeg Free Press

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

I guess we will see how long before things get rabid.

 

[JLM]

There are a lot of people who held Jack up as the last honest politician. I didn't see it that way at all. I saw him as conniving, underhanded and out of his league, but I still kind of liked him. Personally, his chest pounding regarding prisoner abuse in Afghanistan was what I found very unsavory. It showed me that he was willing to throw our soldiers under the bus for political points. When that abuse claim proved to be unfounded I don't remember him getting out front and retracting his accusations. For me that was pretty personal, not just because of my service, but because both my kid and my brothers kid are serving veterans of that war.

Still, when he was hit by this 2nd bout of cancer I was taken off guard and when he died I was sad. His politics and his tactics made him anything but a Saint. Those who now wait in the wings ready to jump on anyone who is critical of Jack Layton remind me somewhat of the zealots who, after 911, were at the ready when anyone questioned the policy of the Bush Administration.

We all have our opinions and you are just as entitled to yours as anyone. I doubt if ANYONE would expect you to agree with everything Layton did! :smile:

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

We all have our opinions and you are just as entitled to yours as anyone. I doubt if ANYONE would expect you to agree with everything Layton did! :smile:

Well let's see if things get ugly when the criticism starts.

 

[JLM]

The Sunday morning news is rife with post funeral analysis.

Remember the man, not the myth

timestranscript.com - The Canonization of Jack Layton | by W.E. (bill) belliveau - Breaking News, New Brunswick, Canada

Late NDP chief 'our Diana,' pollster says - Winnipeg Free Press

That is an excellent article and puts Layton is the proper perspective and also defines well the idiocy of the blubbering hypocrites who didn't know him. Like I said earlier Layton gained respect and love for what he believed in.

 

[El Barto]

I was touched ..... what can I tell ya.... I am a sap
I didn't even shed a tear when my Grandfather died ..... go figure?
But then again if you show me a tear I might join you ......must be like that yawning thing

 

[Colpy]

I think you are missing the whole point Colpy, he wasn't "cannonized" for his politics! Everyone in the world has glaring faults and every person to some degree is a hypocrite. He championed the common man, spoke and acted according to what he believed in and tried to improve the lot of both the down trodden and the average person and above all put others ahead of himself. The fact that his politics might not work is not what yesterday's service is all about. It's not a time to compare Layton and Harper, it's like comparing apples and oranges. Maybe the quality of a man is how he is judged by others. The fact is the world is a better place because he spent some time in it.

P.S. That should be "canonized".

Of course! My spelling bad............

I was not comparing Harper and Layton....I would probably have prefered to drink with Layton....lol

I am not at ALL sure the world is a better place because of Layton....not at all.

 

[Durry]

We also mustn't forget how after the previous election Jack knew that the person the people duly elected to govern Canada could better be governed by a group the people of Canadians who did not give their votes to, so he organized this group of losers in attempt to over throw the duly elected government by forming a coalition. Yeah, Jack knew what what was best for Canadians, he especially knew what was best for Jack.

 

[DaSleeper]

How does the saying go???
Today you're a Hero..........tomorrow a Zero....;-)

 

[JLM]

Of course! My spelling bad............

I was not comparing Harper and Layton....I would probably have prefered to drink with Layton....lol

I am not at ALL sure the world is a better place because of Layton....not at all.

Doesn't tolerance and consideration for one's fellow man make the world a better place?

 

[Cliffy]

Politics is not honest, so to expect politicians to be honest seem rather naive. Politicians have to cater to their backers and say things that support their position, but at the end of the day, the, Jack tried to represent people where the Liberals and Conservatives represent corporate interests. Jack represented the anti-war people, so I can understand those who served might not be impressed. I don't see his position as throwing our military under the bus because I see our military being misused in conflicts that are none of our business. It is not the military's fault as theirs is to obey commands, not to question them.

 

[Colpy]

Doesn't tolerance and consideration for one's fellow man make the world a better place?

Depends on what you are tolerating......

Nothing better illustrates the lunacy of the left than this. Listen as the mourners lustily cheer Saint Jack's advocacy of talks with those well known women's rights advocates the Taliban, after cheering Saint Jack's work with the White Ribbon Campaign to end violence against women.

Blazing Cat Fur

And the financial mess in TO:

Layton

Or perhaps the toleration of exploitation of immigrant women:

Jack Layton and Velvet Touch: Canadians Comment on Massage Story | Suite101.com

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

Politics is not honest, so to expect politicians to be honest seem rather naive.

To not expect that they be honest is complacency and a big part of what is wrong with Ottawa today.

Politicians have to cater to their backers and say things that support their position, but at the end of the day, the, Jack tried to represent people where the Liberals and Conservatives represent corporate interests.

A bunch of hooey. Jack represented whoever would back Jack. Sorry, that's a fact Jack.

Jack represented the anti-war people, so I can understand those who served might not be impressed. I don't see his position as throwing our military under the bus because I see our military being misused in conflicts that are none of our business. It is not the military's fault as theirs is to obey commands, not to question them.

I stopped supporting the war in Afghanistan two years ago when it was clear that the political masters lacked the intestinal fortitude to fight to win. I, however would never espouse unfounded accusations against those in harms way. He did it for selfish reasons and that is the reason for my indifference.

 

[JLM]

Depends on what you are tolerating......

Other's rights to an opinion.

 

[Colpy]

Other's rights to an opinion.

Seems to me the vast majority of Canadians respect that..........

 

[JLM]

Seems to me the vast majority of Canadians respect that..........

Whether Jack was technically entitled to a state funeral is secondary to 1. It didn't appear to do any harm and 2. It was clearly a minority of Canadians that objected to it and 3. It appears to have bound Canadian with good will. :smile: