Start of war? 15 Royal Marines and sailors seized by Iranians

Daz_Hockey

Council Member
Nov 21, 2005
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yeah, I think we all just wish we could get a bunch of ships.....sit outside the nearest Iranian port and bomb the bejeezers out of them until they give back our soldiers....I still think the EU AND the US should basically do EXACTLY that though....I mean, they certainly wouldnt have done that to us then because we were as powerful as the US (if not more so).

And I dont need to say how Britain pretty much helped the US become what it is today simply by ruling the waves and making sure some of our "Nice" current EU friends didnt cast their wanton eyes over new world territory because it's been done a million times. And if Britain is an EU confederate member...does the EU not have an obligation to fall in on Iran?

But it's like kicking an old man when he's down....it's just not cricket
 

BlackOp_Sniper

New Member
Mar 31, 2007
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yeah, I think we all just wish we could get a bunch of ships.....sit outside the nearest Iranian port and bomb the bejeezers out of them until they give back our soldiers....I still think the EU AND the US should basically do EXACTLY that though....I mean, they certainly wouldnt have done that to us then because we were as powerful as the US (if not more so).

And I dont need to say how Britain pretty much helped the US become what it is today simply by ruling the waves and making sure some of our "Nice" current EU friends didnt cast their wanton eyes over new world territory because it's been done a million times. And if Britain is an EU confederate member...does the EU not have an obligation to fall in on Iran?

But it's like kicking an old man when he's down....it's just not cricket
Sorry I thought you were a canuck, you must be a rarity in Britian these days me boy. Hey us here in the US had our go at you, we won that one. But since, you guys pulled up your socks and bin right by our side through thick and thin. You limies got some back bone even though the homefront looks grim and that EU thing is just a ckoking joke.
You guys are the best thing in the EU. If the rest of them panzy bastards had hal the guts of the weakest limy, your boys would be home now and Iran would be under a Union Jack. God save you Brits, the EU ain't going to.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
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Sorry I thought you were a canuck, you must be a rarity in Britian these days me boy. Hey us here in the US had our go at you, we won that one. But since, you guys pulled up your socks and bin right by our side through thick and thin. You limies got some back bone even though the homefront looks grim and that EU thing is just a ckoking joke.
You guys are the best thing in the EU. If the rest of them panzy bastards had hal the guts of the weakest limy, your boys would be home now and Iran would be under a Union Jack. God save you Brits, the EU ain't going to.

Are you sharing a computer with someone in Canada? The IP address belongs to someone else as well.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
7,933
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So would Iran be justified starting a war over the Americans illegally seizing Iranian diplomats from an Iranian consulate office?

Iranian diplomats arrested by US forces

By Mariam Karouny in Baghdad

Published: 26 December 2006



The Iraqi President, Jalal Talabani, has objected to the arrest by American forces in Iraq of two Iranian diplomats. US officials say that they were seized during raids against Iranians suspected of planning attacks on Iraqi security forces.
Iran said that the diplomats taken by the US military had been invited by the Iraqi government and warned that the move would "provoke unpleasant repercussions"...

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2103736.ece

14 January 2007

Iran demands nationals' release

The outside of the Iranian liaison office raided by US forces

Iran has demanded that the US military immediately release five of its nationals detained in a raid in northern Iraq on Thursday. Iran's foreign ministry says the men are diplomats and were working at the Iranian liaison office in Irbil...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6260301.stm


Sounds to me like goes around, comes around.
 

tamarin

House Member
Jun 12, 2006
3,197
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Oshawa ON
Iran is a funny place. I hope the folks in charge of Laughtown are smart enough to play this one out right. It is high stakes. I'm not sure if they're up to the pressure once it's actually applied.
The Brits are befuddled and the UN is befuddled and all the clowns in Tehran are peeing in their pants. It's time for some leadership. We'll see who displays it first.
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
21,513
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``` They were obviously not in Iranian waters, even by your own accounting.```

But they were obviously not in Iraqi waters, either according to that same source. Still, unless there is palpable evidence that the Brits engaged in espionage, it would be fitting if they were returned. After all, the Iranians aren't Americans who, I understand, still haven't returned the Iranians they kidnapped a few months ago.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
"Inadvisable remark 4. Does it strike you as odd that Tony Blair would go out of his way, flapping maps around, to say that 15 British sailors were in Iraqi, not Iranian, waters when they were captured by the Iranian navy?
He's saying he wouldn't intrude on Iran's territorial waters without permission. Which suggests he thinks the Iraqis invited British soldiers into their country four years ago.
These sailors shouldn't be in Iraq or Iran, they should be floating off Torquay, in southern England, defending the Trident nuclear submarines of which Blair is so fond from the machinations of his own Labour party.
Blair is even more delusional than George W. Bush. Perhaps this is why respectable commentators in his country, like Matthew Parris in the Times of London, have openly questioned whether the man is sane." Heather Mallick
 
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darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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Iraqi Shiite informants worked with Iranian intelligence to track and capture British forces
Media Release
Apr. 1, 2007
The biggest puzzle is how did the Iranians know about the British special task forces to capture them in a surprise attack? Some international think tanks now believe it was a joint operation of Iranian intelligence and Shiite Iraqis. Shiite Iraqis wanted to take revenge for the ouster of Al-Sadr components. They conspired with Iran, passed on the exact operational intelligence to the Iranians.
With the Iraqi Shiite intelligence, it was an easy task for the Iranians. An Iranian opposition group claimed Saturday that Iran's capture of 15 British sailors and marines was planned in advance and carried out in retaliation for the U.N. sanctions imposed against the country, as an Iranian diplomat said the case had entered a legal phase. Gholam-Reza Ansari, the Iranian ambassador to Russia, made his comments to Russian television Vesti-24 on Friday and was quoted by IRNA on its Web site as saying, "the case of the detention of British sailors has taken on a judicial form."

 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
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Red Deer AB
Iraqi Shiite informants worked with Iranian intelligence to track and capture British forces
Media Release
Apr. 1, 2007
The biggest puzzle is how did the Iranians know about the British special task forces to capture them in a surprise attack?
Followed by the puzzle of how a they magically transformed from the newest kids on the block and are now 'special task forces'? A sanitation engineer stills does the same job the 'garbageman' used to do.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Followed by the puzzle of how a they magically transformed from the newest kids on the block and are now 'special task forces'? A sanitation engineer stills does the same job the 'garbageman' used to do.

A boarding task force is a special task force.

Followed by the puzzle of how a they magically transformed from the newest kids on the block and are now 'special task forces'? A sanitation engineer stills does the same job the 'garbageman' used to do.

A boarding task force is a special task force. Whoever they are they did nothing out of the ordinary.
 
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EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
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``` They were obviously not in Iranian waters, even by your own accounting.```

But they were obviously not in Iraqi waters, either according to that same source. Still, unless there is palpable evidence that the Brits engaged in espionage, it would be fitting if they were returned. After all, the Iranians aren't Americans who, I understand, still haven't returned the Iranians they kidnapped a few months ago.

Hey Iran wanted to get into the game by selling or providing shaped charges for IEDs. Do you think they should be left alone to operate freely?

If they want to play in the sandbox they have to pay.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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Hey Iran wanted to get into the game by selling or providing shaped charges for IEDs. Do you think they should be left alone to operate freely?
They showed how to make those on 'Future Weapons' in quite good detail. The shaped charge has been around since WWII.
The US hasn't left them 'alone' since the 50's., or are those evnts not important anymore?
 

Logic 7

Council Member
Jul 17, 2006
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They did beat a Canadian reporter to death for taking pictures of a prison and then lied about what really happened for months, claiming she died of a stroke.



Well that is bad, it is a fact, but would it be a reason to invade them?

Following the logic you brought ,what the CIA and the Mossad did around the world, will it be enough to occupied or to invade them?
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
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A boarding task force is a special task force.
I'm not Navy, but what I've always heard, read and heard some more is...A boarding party is a boarding party is a boarding party. They may be part of a larger task force or even a special task force, but a boarding party is a boarding party.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
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Never mind talks about British military cutbacks and the "mothballing" of several Royal Navy ships - the truth is that the British military, and its worldwide projection capabilities, will soon be at their most powerful for a long time -


From the Falklands to the Gulf
Apr 4th 2007

From The Economist print edition

A calculated stunt highlights the difficulties of Britain's role in the world


THE week that saw British servicemen humiliated by a former client state was also, as it happened, the one when Britain was marking the 25th anniversary of the Falklands war. On April 7th 1982, five days after the invasion of the Falklands, the government of Margaret Thatcher announced an exclusion zone around the remote south Atlantic islands and signalled that it would get them back by force.

For Tony Blair, Britain's prime minister, the symmetry is uncomfortable. It contrasts Mrs Thatcher's conduct of the war in the Falklands—the first time the country had asserted its military might since Suez in 1956—with his own difficulties, in Iraq in particular. Worse, for a man who believes in his ability to persuade, Mr Blair is out of touch with his people.

In a YouGov survey for the Daily Telegraph this week, 61% of respondents said Britain was right to retake the Falklands, while 72% think the country should hesitate to get involved in conflicts that do not concern it. The British people want out—most clearly from Iraq, which contributed directly to the run-in with Iran, but also now from Afghanistan.

Of course the British, like most people, love success, and respect the bravery of their forces. The findings of one survey do not an isolationist nation make. The same poll found that most people are still in favour of British participation in peacekeeping missions—so long as they can be made to work.

The Falklands are remembered, rightly or wrongly, as a clearly defined and even noble task that coincided with a post-1970s quest for national renewal. The crude need of the British to feel better about themselves was captured in a controversial tabloid headline, the Sun's “GOTCHA”. It was written after a British submarine sank an Argentine cruiser, the Belgrano, that was sailing near the maritime exclusion zone on May 2nd, 1982. More than 300 Argentines died.


The Sun newspaper's famous "Gotcha" headline in May 1982 after the Royal Navy sank Argentine ship the Belgrano during the Falklands War, a hugely popular war in Britain which also helped Thatcher win a landslide victory in the 1983 General Election



Mr Blair has offered the British people a higher moral cause, at first a duty of humanitarian intervention and more recently the need to confront terrorism around the world. He has taken Britain into wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Sierra Leone and the Balkans; Sierra Leone has been a success; Afghanistan is uncertain. He has also committed military forces to keep the peace in Bosnia and Kosovo. On January 12th 2007 he boarded one of the navy's newest ships, HMS Albion, and told the country's defence establishment that in a post-September 11th world it is more important than ever for Britain to project “hard power”.

Based on a 1998 Strategic Defence Review, Britain is spending £14 billion ($28 billion) to improve its ability to conduct expeditionary operations far from home. Under Mr Blair, however, the armed forces are far more active than they planned to be. The army, in particular, is overstretched, and the navy is being forced to reduce the battle-readiness of some ships to concentrate men and equipment in those on front-line duty.

Still, Britain is investing heavily in military kit. Typhoon jets are coming into service, a new generation of ships is being introduced and there are plans to build two large aircraft carriers.

In many ways, Britain will soon be BETTER placed to project military might than at any time since the late 1960s, when an economic crisis forced Harold Wilson, another Labour prime minister, to decommission much of Britain's navy and pull back from “east of Suez”. For instance, HMS Albion is Britain's first Landing Platform Dock, designed to sit in the waters off troubled states and despatch fast amphibious craft around its theatre of operations.


One of the Royal Navy's newest class of shoips, the Albion Class Landing Platform Dock ships launch fast amphibious craft from the rear when needed



How the new Royal Navy Queen Elizabeth Class aircraft carriers may look


In the Falklands war, by contrast, troops had to be moved to the South Atlantic aboard the Canberra, a liner, and requisitioned merchant ships. The war's main aircraft carrier, HMS Hermes, was about to be decommissioned as unsuitable for fighting Soviet submarines.

Today, Britain—with an economy that has grown without recession for 15 years—has the money to buy military hardware that could only be dreamed of in the early 1980s. It also has a prime minister given to bold idealism. But a missing link has been highlighted by the past week's events in Iran. Without thoughtfulness and attention to detail (especially the detail that can be provided by good intelligence), all the military hardware in the world is insufficient to protect a state against others that bear old grudges against it. “Pardoning” the British hostages on April 4th, Iran's Mahmoud Ahmadinejad referred pointedly to problems left behind by history.


COMMENTS


A GREAT VICTORY FOR THE BRITISH OVER THE IRANIANS

I look at how Tony Blair handled his hostage crisis, and compare it to the way that failure, Jimmy Carter handled the violation of a US Embassy.

Ahmadinejad got his temporary boost in Muslim public opinion. Big deal. Britain has her sailors back; lessons learned will be applied to prevent a second snatch, and Blair, who has been savagely criticized by both American and other allied sideliners comes out of this entire mess proving to me that he is a man of unusually sound and sober judgeent as well as a proficient crisis manager. This man is dangerous . Ahmadinejad hasn't heard the last of Mister Blair. Revenge is often better handled in the insurance brokerages, commodities exchanges, and international credit markets.

The point is that Britain used soft power very well in this crisis. Blair is to be commended for his efforts, not blasted by critics (mainly Yanks) who are bomb happy. He brought his people home alive. Considering the way this crisis could have gone; that is a major Tony Blair accomplishment and a clear British victory over Iran. Anybody who characterizes it as anything else is not reading this resolution closely enough.


economist.com
 
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