Should the government keep giving money to the First Peoples

[Machjo]

Re: RE: Should the government

I'm not a prick. I don't expect them to get off the system right away. I think we should cut them one last deal, give them a formal apology, and move on with life.

Sorry Sir, we understand that we violated our side of the agreement. But, well, we just like it anymore. So how about. We scrap the old agreement and go with a new one.

Oh, but why are yo so hard headed, expecting us to abide by the agreement. Look, the agreement's old anyway.

Oh, you mean old or not, you still expect us to abide by it, boy you're so stubborn. I'll tell you what, let's do this the white as opposed to the right way. We outgun you big time. So you accept the new agreement or screw you. Serves you right for trusting us.

 

[Jersay]

Re: Should the government keep giving money to the First Peo

No, to do it the right way, you support them until they are up to your standard if it takes 10 maybe 20 years. Give them royalty to their territory and negotiate their territory. And sign agreements like Nisga'a where they pay taxes after a certain period of time.

Read into more history, I have spent three years reading into Aboriginal history and how Pricks have screwed them royally.

And I was talking as a generalization about the first prick comment.

 

[FiveParadox]

Re: Those Bitching Natives

I'm tired of hearing them bitch all the time.

I have read through this thread, JonB2004, and I am shocked at the arrogance that some of the posts here seem to portray — I had come to expect posts of a higher standard from certain members here on Canadian Content. If this Government of Canada were to decide on a whim that "we don't feel like honouring our treaties with the First Nations people of Canada anymore", then any such Government should be promptly thrown out on their asses by the Governor General of Canada for staining the Crown with such horrid dishonour — no matter what the party, I wouldn't give a damn in the least.

If the people of Canada wish to amend our treaties with the First Nations people, then those treaties should be amended with not only the advice and consent of our House of Commons and the Senate, but with the Assembly of First Nations (or each band thereof, as the case may be). If we were ever to attempt to change these treaties, or to discard them without the support of the First Nations citizens who would be affected, then shame on Canada.

More to the point, I agree with Jersay on this matter. If we are going to endeavour to end the often-perceived dependency of the First Nations people on the Government of Canada, then we should go about it in an appropriate manner, in co-operation with the First Nations people. I think that the creation of partitions, such as the Territory of Nunavut, is a good way to provide for the sort of conclusion that I think would be appropriate. Native peoples, living in Canada under their own Government, but subject to the framework of Canada under the Crown.

 

[JonB2004]

RE: Should the government

I apologize to everyone who has seen this thread. I was ignorant in my posts and I have not been very specific in what I was trying to say. From here on, I plan to write more knowledgeable posts and get the facts straight.

What I want to say is that we should sit down with the First Peoples and work out a new deal with them. A deal in which they would get a fair settlement.

 

[Lineman]

RE: Should the government keep giving money to the First Peo

I believe in continuing in providing them with the "money" but not without accountability. There are some very good examples of bands who have properly managed their funds and provided all the necessities which is wha I surmise was the original intent. Unfortunately there are as many bad examples where corruption at the leadership level has left these bands in third world conditions. Money tempered with guidance, not direction, is the answer.

 

[Outta here]

RE: Should the government keep giving money to the First Peo

JonB - that is an extremely mature way for you to accept the feedback you just received... you may be young, but as long as you keep your mind open to learning more, you are already wiser than many 'older' people who have forgotten that they their way of looking at things is not always the only way to see it....kudos to you!

 

[FiveParadox]

RE: Should the government keep giving money to the First Peo

Hear, hear, Zan.

 

[Laika]

RE: Should the government

I'm not sure where you got the idea that First Nations pay no taxes. I pay taxes just like everyone else. We pay no provincial taxes, since the treaties were signed between Canada and First Nations, not the provinces. We also don't pay taxes for income earned on the reserve.

But yup, I just looked at my paycheque and taxes were deducted from it just like everyone else's. I know that the treaty said we will pay no taxes, but yup! You guessed it, things didn't exactly turn out that way.

 

[JonB2004]

RE: Should the government

Again, I apologize. I should of got my facts straight.

 

[Lineman]

RE: Should the government keep giving money to the First Peo

No offense intended here and it's likely a stupid question but if a family immigrates here how many generations does it take to become a native canadian. Again, no offense intended.

 

[FiveParadox]

RE: Should the government keep giving money to the First Peo

I don't think you can ever become a Native Canadian (capital "N").

 

[Lineman]

RE: Should the government keep giving money to the First Peo

I'm just thinking of a family who would have been one of the first settled in lets say NB or Quebec would they still be viewed as Europeans even after 6,7,8, or 9 generations? It all boils around the incessant Natives vs Whites arguments. At what point does this family stopped being viewed as the "occupiers of a country". Both sides are busy pointing accusing fingers across the table. The past can never be changed and the present cannot be expected to live up to land promises made when the country was nothing but wilderness. We all have to accept that Montreal will never be given to the Mohawk people but at the same time the Mohawk people have to be given the means to join our society while maintaining their traditions and culture.

 

[FiveParadox]

RE: Should the government keep giving money to the First Peo

Lineman, with all due respect, that isn't what I meant. I was referring to Native, in the formal context (as in First Nations, Inuit, or Métis persons), in response to your question. As to when one can call one's self Canadian, if that's what you're asking, then whenever one has residence in Canada, or once did, or feels a bond with Canada.

 

[Lineman]

RE: Should the government keep giving money to the First Peo

I knew what you meant. I was just trying to make a point and didn't capitalize on purpose to avoid the "double" meaning. I'll figure out this proper grammar stuff eventually!

 

[MMMike]

Re: RE: Should the government keep giving money to the First

Lineman, with all due respect, that isn't what I meant. I was referring to Native, in the formal context (as in First Nations, Inuit, or Métis persons), in response to your question. As to when one can call one's self Canadian, if that's what you're asking, then whenever one has residence in Canada, or once did, or feels a bond with Canada.

The point is, Five, that Natives were simply the first immigrants. Anyway, on topic, the Government of Canada has to keep negotiating these treaty settlements - that is clear. It will be painful and expensive but hopefully will improve the living conditions for the Natives. But even when that has been settled, Native communities will still be plagued by rampant social ills and extreme poverty. Part of the problem imho, is that the communities themselves are not sustainable. A small community in the middle of nowhere with no primary industry is doomed to failure in todays world regardless of who the inhabitants are. My understanding is that on reserves Natives do not own their properties. This is a problem as well because in the rest of Canada home ownership is key for long term financial well being.

 

[Laika]

Re: RE: Should the government keep giving money to the First

The point is, Five, that Natives were simply the first immigrants.

I can accept that; however, by that line of reasoning, it begs the question: would then the Asians be considered the first immigrants to Asia, Aborigines the first immigrants to Austrialia, the Europeans to Europe, etc. etc.?

 

[missile]

Re: Should the government keep giving money to the First Peo

The accountability issue is a sticking point with the natives..for some reason they don't want to sign off on that one. So,cut off all funds until they do so.

 

[thecdn]

RE: Should the government keep giving money to the First Peo

As lineman stated earlier, there are some good examples of native government and some bad ones. I haven't lived in Canada for seven years but I remember news stories of reservations being run as fiefdoms by the chief and nepotism run rampant.

I object to money being thrown at the problem with no expectation of results or accountability. As has been stated the past is the past and living there isn't going to help the future.

The natives, much like the blacks here in the US, have legitimate grievances but must stop pointing fingers and making excuses and get their shit together and their own house in order.

 

[sha_zapple]

RE: Should the government

I like lineman's idea.

Out in my area of the province theres a bit of a stereotypical view of natives, but theres stereotypes for a reason. Poor money management is definitly a cause especially for youths who are raised with it. It doesnt give them a sense of respect toward others property, which is probably why if it is not in view and locked down then dont be surprised if something happens to it. Sad but true.

Do they deserve land? Ideally yes it seems fair to some people, but what about those whos land is being taken away? My family owns an orchard (not exactly profitable) and if it wasnt for the woodlots weve maintained we would not be able to continue our farming operations. Its easy to say 'give it back' when you live in an apartment. I can see my arguement easily being applied to the other side though.
I think more of an issue for natives around here is land still being taken away for expansion of sudivisions which in some situations is unjustified. I think it depends on what theyre doing with the land theyre given.

 

[Laika]

Re: Should the government keep giving money to the First Peo

The accountability issue is a sticking point with the natives..for some reason they don't want to sign off on that one. So,cut off all funds until they do so.

Accountability applies to all forms of government, not just Indian Bands and Tribal Councils. You think only native politicians can be crooked?

The myth of the noble savage is just that, a myth. Everyone, even native people, is susceptible to weakness of character and bad judgement.

I am all for better accountability in regards to First Nations governance, but I object to the notion that ethics and accountability ends where the boundaries of the Indian Reservations begin.