Should smoking be banned on public beaches?
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Smoking cigarettes and tossing them on the ground IS littering. They throw them away in a proper location, I don't give a rat's ass if they smoke on the beach. I just don't want to walk all over the butts. And I never said that smokers are the ones throwing candy bar wrappers(and I never even said Tim's cups, so I have no idea where you got that idea from
). Litterers are smokers and non-smokers. But smokers(not ALL smokers obviously, but most of them do) are the only ones throwing the butts everywhere(nothing like seeing a dumped ashtray from a car at the entrance to a public beach).I don't know if that is accurate. While there is a smuggling problem and a distribution organization of unregulated smokes, I see that as an enforcement problem. Inline with the new governments get tough on crime concept, those caught smuggling or in possession of contraband tobacco products should serve lengthy jail sentences followed by a life time ban on selling tobacco. Don't you agree?
Just a thought. Sort of a two birds with one stone kind of thing.
Throw rocks at smokers? Well the does provide an incentive to drop the filthy habit. Sort of a win win situation.
I think it might catch on in the Fanatical Muslim community too! :lol:
Smoking cigarettes and tossing them on the ground IS littering. They throw them away in a proper location, I don't give a rat's ass if they smoke on the beach. I just don't want to walk all over the butts. And I never said that smokers are the ones throwing candy bar wrappers(and I never even said Tim's cups, so I have no idea where you got that idea from
But not every smoker is a litterer, and not every litterer is a smoker.
You seem to think that banning smoking on beaches will eliminate littering.
Not really, it's one of these bureaucratic "crimes" that is only illegal because the Gov't. wants to capitalize on it. Jails should be reserved for vicious people who are of danger to the public. It's rather ridiculous tying crime to a product that is in itself legal. :smile:
I don't think anyone assumes something as silly as banning smoking on beaches will end littering. Just writing it out make clear how nonsensical that statement is.
It would reduce the amount of cigarette butts on the beach though and that would be a good thing right?
The budget has to be balanced and there are only so many services that can be cut before it starts costing politicians jobs. If we have the jail space why not use it? The act of thrown a cigarette butt down on the ground isn't legal at all. For those who refuse to carry with them an ashtray that allows for clean and safe disposal of spent butts is a passive aggressive attack on the the public at large not to mention a clear display of disrespect for the law.
Unforgiven; The budget has to be balanced and there are only so many services that can be cut before it starts costing politicians jobs.[B said:
Sure why not? When you have all the people locked up for tobacco crimes, what's next? Oh, yeah, I'm sure there are lots of people who cheat playing hearts and scrabble and monopoly, then there's the old people who wander around down town and don't always use the cross walks. Yep, it's high time we spent a few $hundred a day rehabbing these folks. :lol:
Aren't we getting out of the job of rehab and into the punishment for profit business? Seems to me that is why we're getting new prisons and some of them are privately owned and operated. They won't make money if there isn't prisoners in cells. Plus, since there is no smoking allowed in prison, inmates can kick the smoking habit that got them in there in the first place. Doesn't that reduce the recidivism rate? Also, since it's not a difficult move to take property that was bought by illegal tobacco sales, there is advantage in taking that to reduce incarceration costs.
I understand that there was a ruling just recently that the mentally ill can be locked up as punishment for their crimes regardless of their mental health condition. So maybe those old timers with Alzheimer's will be remanded into a safe environment until their families start to take proper care of them. Could be that there is a charge of negligence there for the unsupportive family members who don't take measures to prevent them from wandering off and into harms way. Probably a good thing in the long run, don't you think?
It is simply amazing that the logical solution to the smoking/non-smoking problem is not seen clearly, since it it right in front of our eyes:
Designate restaurants, bars, beaches, etc., as SMOKING or NON-SMOKING.
Those who smoke could carefully avoid the non-smoking establishments, and non-smokers could just as carefully avoid establishments where smoking is allowed.
As far as I can see, there maybe two reasons why this probably will never happen: Forced and phony 'equality' and shameless power-grab by all levels of government.
Designate restaurants, bars, beaches, etc., as SMOKING or NON-SMOKING.
Those who smoke could carefully avoid the non-smoking establishments, and non-smokers could just as carefully avoid establishments where smoking is allowed.
As far as I can see, there maybe two reasons why this probably will never happen: Forced and phony 'equality' and shameless power-grab by all levels of government.
That is what I've always felt. If a guy and his wife who are smokers want to run a restaurant and put up a sign saying "smoking establishment", what is the harm? The only hitch I could see is they may have to sign a waiver to exempt them from benefits for sickness caused by smoke, but it shouldn't take a Philadelphia lawyer to draw that up. :smile:
A lot of the "unregulated" cigarettes are sold by Natives on the reserves, do the police have any jurisdiction to stop that and if so, will they risk the fallout of such enforcement?
Problem with that is that once the precedent is set then other laws change based on that precedent. What happens when you get people going to one or the other expecting the opposite of what is available? Workers rights, liability and insurance, there seems to be a lot of possibilities for something like that to go wrong. Granted free will and all, but who pays if the place burns down because someone was smoking? Who would insure the risk and if a place can't get insurance because smoking is allowed on premises, then is there an actionable claim against the insurance industry due to discrimination?
What happens when people walk into a grocery store assuming it's a food bank?
What happens when people walk into a coffee shop expecting a muffler repair?
What happens when people walk into a newspaper expecting a strip club?
We have to ask ourselves if the law is for everyone or not. It's those little things like contraband smokes, and a new issue, fish taken and sold on the open market while those who are supposed to get a portion of the catch go without as happened in BC just recently. It's those buggers who are using the special provision to exploit opportunities in the market for their own profit that will bring an end to it altogether.
If you can come up with the premiums there will always be someone who will sell you insurance! :smile:
Sure but who can survive in business when you have that sort of overhead? The minute someone opens a bar near you with smoking out on the patio your sunk. No one is going to pay that much for drinks when they can be had so much cheaper next door when you can stand outside on the patio and smoke your brains out.
I am sure that if the solution I propose were law, the owners of all affected businesses would have enough brains to advertise their businesses appropriately.
However, sharing your concern, it is quite possible that potential patrons would be no different then from what they are now: Illiterate.
Did you even read my last post? "They throw them away in a proper location, I don't give a rat's ass if they smoke on the beach. I just don't want to walk all over the butts."
How is that saying that they should ban them? If they throw away their butts, then I couldn't care less if they smoke on the beach. I don't see where you got that I said that banning smoking on beaches will eliminate littering. I also never said that every smoker was a litterer. There are people that properly dispose of their butts.