Shoe thrown at Bush (great legacy)

hermanntrude

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Jun 23, 2006
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to be fair what that man did was not good. It was certainly understandable, and even amusing. however, the action did not cause anything good to happen, and will probably only make matters worse in the long run.

two wrongs do not make a right, even if one of the wrongs is a massive war crime and the other is a rather amusing attack with a shoe
 

Praxius

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Dec 18, 2007
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HAHA just like in a mosque or somethin

I was lookin at a mainly southern US based site and a lot of the folks were saying that the Iraqi "embarassed his country" by doing this, as if they're not even allowed to HATE what has happened at the hands of the Bush admin

Yeah they're one's to talk about embarassment.
 

Praxius

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to be fair what that man did was not good. It was certainly understandable, and even amusing. however, the action did not cause anything good to happen, and will probably only make matters worse in the long run.

two wrongs do not make a right, even if one of the wrongs is a massive war crime and the other is a rather amusing attack with a shoe

Sure all kinds of good will come out of this. Now in the future when everybody looks back into history of the Iraq war and reference Bush, they'll have a picture of him ducking shoes and what better way to close off a legacy like that?
 

Praxius

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Realted News:


A shoe is raised during a protest against the U.S. president's visit in the Shiite stronghold of Sadr City in Baghdad on Monday. An Iraqi journalist threw his shoes at President George W. Bush during a news conference on Sunday.

Thousands of Iraqis protest arrest of shoe-throwing journalist
Thousands of Iraqis protest arrest of shoe-throwing journalist

Thousands of Iraqis protested the detention of an Iraqi journalist who was arrested after he threw his shoes at U.S. President George W. Bush during a news conference in Baghdad.

In Sadr City, thousands of supporters of radical Shia cleric Muqtada al-Sadr burned American flags to protest against Bush and called for the release of Muntadhar al-Zeidi.

"Bush, Bush, listen well: Two shoes on your head," the protesters chanted in unison.

In Najaf, a Shia holy city, some protesters threw their shoes at an American patrol as it passed by. Witnesses said the American troops did not respond and continued on their patrol.

Many others across the Middle East were hailing al-Zeidi as a hero for throwing his shoes, considered a sign of disrespect in some Arab nations. Newspapers across the Arab world on Monday printed front-page photos of the incident.

The station al-Zeidi works for, Al-Baghdadia, aired pleas to release the reporter.

"We have all been mobilized to work on releasing him, and all the organizations around the world are with us," said Abdel-Hameed al-Sayeh, the manager of Al-Baghdadia in Cairo, where the station is based.

Al-Zeidi is being held by Iraqi security. The Associated Press reported that he is being questioned as to whether he was paid by someone to throw his shoes and is being tested for drugs and alcohol. His shoes are being held as evidence.

During the news conference on Sunday, al-Zeidi, stood up and threw his shoes at Bush, who was able to dodge the flying footwear.

Security officials jumped on al-Zeid. As he was dragged away, he yelled, "This is your farewell kiss, you dog!"

Al-Zeidi, who is in his late 20s, was kidnapped by Shiite militias on Nov. 16, 2007, and released three days later. His station said no ransom was paid and refused to discuss the case.
 

JLM

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:cool:..........It's about 8 years too late, but, that guy was close enough to shoot him.

Not that I would EVER condone such an act.:roll: Just a passing thought.

8O

I think that act says more about (the ignorance) of the thrower than the throwee.
 

normbc9

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There is a lot to this story that the White House Press Secretary refused to OK in any media releases. The primary point is that in Arabic cultures this is a supreme insult. Bush is so dim he never even acknowledged that fact. The new US-Iraqi agreement being feted includes provisons for permanent US military bases on Iraqi soil. The journalist who threw the shoes lost immediate family and two homes in this conflict and also had been held prisoner (I don't know by who) for a period of time and had been mistreated. Maybe Bush will save the shoes and wear them off the White House grounds when entering retirement. I can't wait to get this slug out of office.
 

Praxius

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Related News:


This undated portrait made available Monday, Dec. 15, 2008 by his family shows Iraqi journalist Muntadar al-Zeidi. al-Zeidi who threw his shoes at U.S. President Bush.

Arabs hail journalist who threw shoes at Bush
CTV.ca | Arabs hail journalist who threw shoes at Bush

BAGHDAD -- Thousands of Iraqis took to the streets Monday to demand the release of a reporter who threw his shoes at President George W. Bush, as Arabs across many parts of the Middle East hailed the journalist as a hero and praised his insult as a proper send-off to the unpopular U.S. president.

The protests came as suicide bombers and gunmen targeted Iraqi police, U.S.-allied Sunni guards and civilians in a series of attacks Monday that killed at least 17 people and wounded more than a dozen others, officials said.

Journalist Muntadhar al-Zeidi, who was kidnapped by militants last year, was being held by Iraqi security Monday and interrogated about whether anybody paid him to throw his shoes at Bush during a press conference the previous day in Baghdad, said an Iraqi official.

He was also being tested for alcohol and drugs, and his shoes were being held as evidence, said the official, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to talk to the media.

Showing the sole of your shoe to someone in the Arab world is a sign of extreme disrespect, and throwing your shoes is even worse.

Newspapers across the Arab world on Monday printed front-page photos of Bush ducking the flying shoes, and satellite TV stations repeatedly aired the incident, which provided fodder for jokes and was hailed by the president's many critics in the region.

"Iraq considers Sunday as the international day for shoes," said a joking text message circulating around the Saudi capital Riyadh.

Palestinian journalists in the West Bank town of Ramallah joked about who would be brave enough to toss their shoes at Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, another U.S. official widely disliked in the region.

Many users of the popular Internet networking site Facebook posted the video of the incident to their profile pages, showing al-Zeidi leap from his chair as Bush and Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki were about to shake hands Sunday and hurl his shoes at the president, who was about 20 feet away. Bush ducked the airborne footwear and was not injured in the incident.

"This is a farewell kiss, you dog," al-Zeidi yelled in Arabic as he threw his shoes. "This is from the widows, the orphans and those who were killed in Iraq."

Al-Zeidi was immediately wrestled to the ground by Iraqi security guards. The incident raised fears of a security lapse in the heavily guarded Green Zone where the press conference took place. Reporters were repeatedly searched and asked to show identification before entering and while inside the compound, which houses al-Maliki's office and the U.S. Embassy.

Al-Zeidi's tirade was echoed by Arabs across the Middle East who are fed up with U.S. policy in the region and still angry over Bush's decision to invade Iraq in 2003 to topple Saddam Hussein.

The response to the incident by Arabs in the street was ecstatic.

"Al-Zeidi is the man," said 42-year-old Jordanian businessman Samer Tabalat. "He did what Arab leaders failed to do."

Hoping to capitalize on this sentiment, al-Zeidi's TV station, Al-Baghdadia, repeatedly aired pleas to release the reporter Monday, while showing footage of explosions and playing background music that denounced the U.S. in Iraq.

"We have all been mobilized to work on releasing him, and all the organizations around the world are with us," said Abdel-Hameed al-Sayeh, the manager of Al-Baghdadia in Cairo, where the station is based.

Al-Jazeera television interviewed Saddam's former chief lawyer Khalil al-Dulaimi, who offered to defend al-Zeidi, calling him a "hero."

In Baghdad's Shiite slum of Sadr City, thousands of supporters of radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr burned American flags to protest against Bush and called for the release of al-Zeidi.

"Bush, Bush, listen well: Two shoes on your head," the protesters chanted in unison.

In Najaf, a Shiite holy city, some protesters threw their shoes at an American patrol as it passed by. Witnesses said the American troops did not respond and continued on their patrol.

Al-Zeidi, who is in his late 20s, was kidnapped by Shiite militias on Nov. 16, 2007, and released three days later. His station said no ransom was paid and refused to discuss the case.

Violence in Iraq has declined significantly over the past year, but daily attacks continue. A truck bomb killed at least nine police officers Monday and wounded 13 others, including two civilians, in Khan Dhari, west of Baghdad, said Dr. Omar al-Rawi at the Fallujah hospital, where the dead and wounded were taken.

Hours earlier, a female suicide bomber knocked on the front door of the home of the leader of a local chapter of the Sunni volunteer militia north of Baghdad and blew herself up, killing him, said an Iraqi police official, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to talk to the press.

Also Monday, gunmen killed seven people from a single family, members of the minority Yazidi sect, when they stormed into their home in northern Iraq, police said.


In an image taken from video, a man throws a shoe at U.S. President George W. Bush during a news conference with Iraq Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki in Baghdad, on Sunday, Dec. 14, 2008.

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So I guess we know who the next Iraq leader is going to be.
 

hermanntrude

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Jun 23, 2006
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Sure all kinds of good will come out of this. Now in the future when everybody looks back into history of the Iraq war and reference Bush, they'll have a picture of him ducking shoes and what better way to close off a legacy like that?

you think simplifying it and trivialising it will help people remember the important stuff?
 

Praxius

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you think simplifying it and trivialising it will help people remember the important stuff?

I was talking more in reference towards Bush, not the Iraq war in direct relation.

Sorta like how everybody remembers Clinton for getting a blow job, people will remember Bush for getting shoes chucked at him...... among many other things over the years.

I call it his trademark from here on out.

But I sure ain't trivializing the whole war down to a simple shoe throwing.... there's a lot of background and emotional reasoning behind that throw, which leads into explination of all that has transpired before that.

If it was a Michael Moore documentary, it'd start with the shoe throwing and then go into detail about everything behind it.

But I am not by any means trivializing the situation. I think it's quite fitting..... until something better comes along.
 

hermanntrude

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it just adds to the growing message that if someone upsets you it's Ok to use physical force rather than stop and think. this message is growing out of control. before long we'll all just be hitting each other all day instead of working constructively.
 

Praxius

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Here's the US's take on the situation:


TV reporter Muntadhar al-Zaidi, in a file photo, was jailed after throwing his shoes at President Bush.

TV station urges release of shoe-throwing journalist

TV station urges release of shoe-throwing journalist - CNN.com

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- An Iraqi TV reporter who threw his shoes at President Bush during a news conference remained in custody Monday, while judicial officials decided whether to charge him with assault.

Muntadhar al-Zaidi, a reporter for the TV channel Al-Baghdadia, faced testing for alcohol and drugs to determine his state of mind, said a government official, who requested anonymity.

At Sunday's news conference, the journalist whipped off his shoes and hurled them at Bush during the president's unannounced stop in Baghdad. The reporter called his shoe-throwing, a traditional insult in Arab culture, a "farewell kiss" to a "dog" who launched the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

Bush swiftly ducked the flying footwear and later told reporters aboard Air Force One that the "bizarre" incident was not a sign of popular opinion in Iraq.

Oh really? PR it anyway you want, but having several other neighboring nations as well as a good chunk of the Iraqi population backing this guys release would beg to differ.

"I don't know what the guy said, but I saw his sole," the president joked.

Ha ha... funny funny.... ignorant.

Meanwhile, Al-Baghdadia is devoting round-the-clock coverage to the incident and calling for the immediate release of the reporter whose co-workers describe as usually "calm and polite."

In a statement read on the air, Al-Baghdadia said that al-Zaidi should be freed "in accordance with democracy and freedom of expression Iraqis were promised by the new era and American authorities."

Ah, the old "Misunderstanding Freedom of Expression Definition" trick.

The channel also ran the reporter's image with what it said were messages of support from viewers in a crawl at the bottom of the screen and called on Arabs, Muslims and Iraqis to support "your brother."

The network is fielding viewer phone calls about the action, with many people expressing support for al-Zaidi and others saying his behavior was inappropriate.

"What Muntadhar did represents the biggest test for the United States and the Iraqi government -- if they release him or continue detaining him," said Abdul Hamid al-Saeh, a spokesman for the Iraq-owned, Egypt-based network.

The reporter has worked for the channel since 2005.

Al-Baghdadia said any actions taken against the reporter would be reminiscent of the "violent acts, random arrests, mass graves and personal and public freedoms taken away" during the rule of ousted dictator Saddam Hussein. It called on other Arab countries and journalists to support al-Zaidi's release.

It's unclear what motivated the journalist, but reports suggest that al-Zaidi knows firsthand the anguish of the Iraq war. Al-Zaidi was kidnapped in November 2007 and released three days later, according to Reporters Without Borders.

Yeah don't mention the rest of the crap he's bee put through over the years.... no, it's might just because of this one incident. :roll:

Al-Zaidi is from Baghdad's Sadr City, one of the country's biggest slums and the site of some of the conflict's bloodiest battles.

His arrest drew an angry protest Monday in Sadr City by followers of anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. In the Shiite neighborhood, angry people marched to demand the journalist's release, protest the U.S.-Iraqi security agreement and urge the withdrawal of American troops.

Hurling any object is a form of hostility, but in Arab culture, throwing a shoe or striking someone with one is the ultimate form of contempt.

And at Monday's demonstration, the imagery of the shoe-throwing incident conjured anger and pride.

Calling Bush the devil, a Sadrist cleric addressing the crowd condemned the visit of "the leader of evil and terror" and said the president was humiliated in a visit that was meant to celebrate achievements.

Protesters placed a shoe atop a pole with a note saying, "Go Out USA."

Demonstrators chanted: "Listen Bush, we got you out with a pair of shoes," "If we run out of ammunition, we will hit them with shoes," and "America out now."

They carried banners calling for al-Zaidi's release and hoisted flags and posters of Shiite clerics.

One demonstrator described Bush as a "terrorist ... whose hands are covered in children and women's blood." Another pounded a U.S. flag with his shoe, and the flag was torched by protesters. A third pretended to auction the shoe that hit Bush.

Pretended to auction the shoe? lol..... at least they adopted some of that Western sarcasm and humor.

After his visit to Iraq, Bush traveled to Afghanistan, where he said U.S.-led forces would maintain their pursuit of Taliban militants, but warned there would be no quick victory.

"They can hide, but we can stay on the hunt," Bush said. "We will keep the pressure on them, because it's in the peaceful people of Afghanistan's interest just like it's in the interest of this country."

"Are there still difficult days ahead? Absolutely," he said. "But are conditions a lot better than they were than they were in 2001? Unquestionably, undoubtedly they're better."

Afghanistan was the original front in the war on the al Qaeda network launched after the September 11, 2001, attacks. A U.S. invasion swiftly deposed the Taliban, the Islamic militia that had harbored al Qaeda, but the leaders of both movements escaped and remain on the run.

Nearly 40,000 U.S. and NATO troops are still in Afghanistan, with the Pentagon expected to shift another three U.S. brigades into the fight by summer. The war has cost the coalition 1,018 dead to date, including 624 Americans.

Iraq has been far more costly to the United States, with more than 4,200 Americans killed and costs estimates of more than $600 billion.

But violence has declined sharply over the past 18 months as former Sunni Arab insurgents turned against Islamic jihadists loyal to al Qaeda in Iraq, who were blamed for some of the worst attacks of the 5-year-old war.

About 130,000 U.S. troops remain in Iraq, but a recent agreement between Washington and Baghdad calls for American combat units to be out of Iraqi cities next June and to leave the country entirely by the end of 2011.
 

mabudon

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See I don't get the "physical force" thing in this case, throwing shoes at a person is a massive insult in certain places and Iraq just happens to be one of them. I am fairly certain that the guy wasn't hoping to even injure Bush, and if he was I highly doubt he could have caused more than a VERY minor "injury". I mean if you had your home and family destroyed by someone and responded by insulting them and calling them a dog I would tend to view that as EXTREME restraint.
 

Praxius

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it just adds to the growing message that if someone upsets you it's Ok to use physical force rather than stop and think.

Tell that to Bush and the rest of the US administration.

this message is growing out of control. before long we'll all just be hitting each other all day instead of working constructively.

Before long? I thought we were already at this point.
 

hermanntrude

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Tell that to Bush and the rest of the US administration.



Before long? I thought we were already at this point.

that's exactly my point. You think it's wrong, which makes you morally judge Bush as being a bad man (I agree wholeheartedly with that judgement) but then you state that the solution (or at least a sensible reaction) is to do exactly the same thing (albeit on a much smaller and more comical scale).

I will not be accused of defending bush. however I really do strongly believe that what that man did was wrong and becomes more wrong due to the fact it was internationally publicised. Now everyone seems to believe it's just fine to attack someone physically if you judge them to be morally wrong.

and anyone who disagrees will get my foot up their arse!
 

talloola

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that's exactly my point. You think it's wrong, which makes you morally judge Bush as being a bad man (I agree wholeheartedly with that judgement) but then you state that the solution (or at least a sensible reaction) is to do exactly the same thing (albeit on a much smaller and more comical scale).

I will not be accused of defending bush. however I really do strongly believe that what that man did was wrong and becomes more wrong due to the fact it was internationally publicised. Now everyone seems to believe it's just fine to attack someone physically if you judge them to be morally wrong.

and anyone who disagrees will get my foot up their arse!

With or without your shoe on.
In our culture throwing a shoe at someone
isn't much of anything, and yes, comical, but in Iraq, it has a deep meaning.
I'm glad it was done, as it lets bush know that even over there he has become
a disapointment to most, and his cowboy attitude and his arrogant stance,
as he had on board the aircraft carrier, declaring 'victory', was not appropriate, and he made
his own bed, now he has to lay in it.
 
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hermanntrude

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With or without your shoe on.
In our culture throwing a shoe at someone
isn't much of anything, and yes, comical, but in Iraq, it has a deep meening.
I'm glad it was done, as it lets bush know that even over there he has become
a disapointment to most, and his cowboy attitude and his arrogant stance,
as he had on board the aircraft carrier, declaring 'victory', was not appropriate, and he made
his own bed, now he has to lay in it.

I dont think anyone can believe Bush didn't already know people hate him in IRAQ and pretty much everywhere. I don't think this is a surprise to him. I still suggest that no useful purpose was served by this event
 

talloola

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I dont think anyone can believe Bush didn't already know people hate him in IRAQ and pretty much everywhere. I don't think this is a surprise to him. I still suggest that no useful purpose was served by this event

In our eyes, probably not, but in the iraqi eyes, I think so.
 

#juan

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I dont think anyone can believe Bush didn't already know people hate him in IRAQ and pretty much everywhere. I don't think this is a surprise to him. I still suggest that no useful purpose was served by this event

I think you are right herman but, I wonder what the penalty will be for throwing shoes at Bush. I would not like to be in his shoes(if he has another pair.)