Sharia Judge Says It Is OK for Husbands to Slap spendthrift Wives.

[Unforgiven]

I did not say they were forced to wear veils, Machjo, I said they were brainwashed in to wearing veils. And of course they would take offense to that, who is going to admit that they have been the subject of brainwashing?

But women in the Islamic society are brainwashed from birth to accept their inferior station in the society. So wearing a veil comes naturally to them. Indeed, it wouldn’t surprise me if they look upon women who don’t wear veils as prostitutes.

To be fair though, I am aware that there are women raised in Muslim households who are pressured into wearing the veil.

Again, it isn’t a question of pressuring, it is a question of brainwashing. Many times the women voluntarily wear the veil, that is how they have been conditioned from the birth.

Are Jewish men brainwashed into wearing a Yamaka? What about Catholics and the rosary beads and the cross? Isn't that the same bondage symbol? A collar is a collar no matter the worth of the encrusted jewels.

I think that those who wear the Hajab are comfortable in it and those who wear a full Burka covering are comfortable doing so. What people wear isn't important other than it makes them comfortable to do so. It's when people are taught to hate based on tradition or religion that the big problems arise.

Look at our own Western concepts, blue for boys, pink for girls. Boys like trucks and sports, girls like dolls and high romance. Do we brainwash and is it a negative thing? Sure but it's part of tradition but it's not really a bad thing in the end. If someone wants to walk around in the sheets it's okay with me. If they want to make a club so that other sports fans can gather to observe that religion called the playoffs, more power to them.

All Islam really needs is a good dose of what was taught and is taught to Christians over here through the ages. Simply, "Don't shove you're religion in my face." In time, we'll get along just fine.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

You show me where the bible says that. Not the Quran.

Bible doesn’t say that, alley; Bible implies that (though I think Koran does actually say that). In the Bible the husband wife relationship is very much the master servant relationship. Bible tells woman to be submissive to her husband, Bible says that man will rule over the woman (that is what God says when he curses Eve for leading Adam astray, he tells her that Adam will rule over her).

Now, this could reasonably be interpreted to mean that a man has the right to beat his wife, and some of the extreme Fundamentalist sects do just that. As I mentioned in one of my previous posts, a Southern Baptist (a Fundamentalist denomination) scholar argues that the reason there is wife beating is that the wives are not being submissive enough to their husbands.

So in the Bible it is implied, not directly stated. That is why most Christians do not think that Bible gives a man the right to beat his wife (unlike Koran, it is directly stated there, so most Islamic scholars agree that a man has a right tot beat his wife).

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Sounds like a flawed religion to me.

Indeed it is alley; Islam is very much a flawed religion. So is Christianity.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Are Jewish men brainwashed into wearing a Yamaka? What about Catholics and the rosary beads and the cross? Isn't that the same bondage symbol?

Sure Jewish men are brainwashed into wearing the Yamaka. That is what they are taught since their childhood, they are not told anything different, so they wear the Yamaka. So what is your point?

When a boy or a girl is brought up from the childhood seeped in one particular religion, one particular philosophy, is not exposed to any other viewpoint, it can reasonably be said that he/she is brainwashed into that religion, that philosophy.

Wearing Yamaka is a sign of bondage, a sign of submission to God. Same with the rosary bead and the cross, with those Catholics show their devotion (or bondage if you prefer) to God.

I think that those who wear the Hajab are comfortable in it and those who wear a full Burka covering are comfortable doing so.

Indeed they are berceuse they are brainwashed into doing so.

What people wear isn't important other than it makes them comfortable to do so. It's when people are taught to hate based on tradition or religion that the big problems arise.

Not necessarily. What people wear can be used to make them feel different, make them feel inferior. Thus Hitler made the Jews wear the Star of David. The purpose was to make Jews feel inferior, to make them feel marked. Same way a hijab or a burka is meant to make women feel inferior, to reinforce their subhuman status in an Islamic society.

 

[Cliffy]

Religions are flawed because they were created by flawed humans. If humans were perfect they wouldn't need religion because they would be gods. They created god to be perfect so that they would have someone to emulate. Too bad, because if humans woke up to the truth, they would see that they don't need religion.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

All Islam really needs is a good dose of what was taught and is taught to Christians over here through the ages. Simply, "Don't shove you're religion in my face." In time, we'll get along just fine.

Now here we are in agreement. While I think women wear hijab or burka because of brainwashing, it is up to Islamic women to do something about it if they choose to. That is why I am opposed to a complete, blanket ban on burka (it could be banned in limited circumstances though, such as in the workplace, provided it is not against the Charter). As long as Islam is not shoved in my face, I am happy.

 

[Walter]

Are Jewish men brainwashed into wearing a Yamaka?

I think you meant the Yamaha or the Harley.

 

[Walter]

Too bad, because if humans woke up to the truth, they would see that they don't need religion.

Wrong, but I'll pray for you.

 

[bluedog]

All religion is flawed.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

If religon is flawed, with thousands of years of tradition, a written history of same, oral history of generations before and since...
where does that put you? The self educated wanderer?

Many of same can be found in bus stations all around the world.
All have similar positions as yours with "a couple in 'em". Just ask!

Have you shared with a few of the self righteous self educated?
Gave em a new book to help set them straight?
With the Word, according to Cliffy! :fish:


Well, YOU are FLAWED too Cliffy...
We ALL are, hate to be the one to break the news,
You're the rule, not the exception.
Please stop insinuating that you are.

"Ye that are without sin, go crawl under a rock!" Mark 1:1
(Quote from my own pitiful "book", it is free.)


But anyway... (see signature.)

 

[bluedog]

Hazmart, what translation did you get? Also, you can always check out the tafsir (exegesis of the Qur'an) of a verse you don't quite understand, or to a verse of which you would like a comprehensive explanation. There are several exegeses out there, most done by the classical scholars of Islam. There are a few Qur'anic exegeses available online, namely that of Ibn Kathir, and Tahfim al-Qur'an by Sayyid Abul 'Ala Maududi. Ibn Kathir's work is generally the most well-regarded, although some may prefer another mufasir. At-Tabari's tafsir is also well-known, but I haven't seen an online version of it yet. You may have to find it at a bookshop.

************************************************

Thank you my brother,

I have been looking for one online for weeks? Can you share the difference in the teachers? translation? opinion? regional interpretation? historical accuracy? A bit of each? Fill me in please... try to ignore the "self-enlightened ones" flooding this post.


I look forward to your answer.:fish:


I could just ask those "like" Reverend Cliffy
but surely they MUST get back to teaching themselves.
Their "Mentor", the tattered 10 by 12 stolen from a library years ago with the authors name obliterated for our safety.

Ever notice these self educated never quote chapter and page either, so we never know where they "learned" their philosophy.
...Maybe THAT is why, or BECAUSE no one else listens.

 

[Machjo]

Machjo, I did not say that individuals are brainwashed in each and every instance, but they are brain washed many times.

The instances you mention are real enough, and they represent weak, deeply troubled women with low self esteem. A woman who does that is afraid to exist independently in the Western society (where along with rights, also come responsibilities). She is most at home when Patriarchs of the religion are telling her what to do.

Unquestioned obedience to authority has certain attraction to weak minded individuals. Rather than get an education, get a job, earn a living, live independently on her own (as Western society expects her to do), such a woman finds it much easier if a stern, bearded Mullah or Ayatollah is telling her how she should live in every aspect of her life.

To some extent we see that kind of behavior among Christian Fundamentalists as well. Fundamentalists lay great emphasis on strict obedience to authority. Some people find that attractive.

Again, more stereotyping. I knew one Muslim woman convert who really stirred up her local Muslim community by always questioning her imam and the rules he taught, always challenging him to cite from the Qur'an. On one occasion at a funeral, the women were stading on one side, the men on the other, yet she insisted on staying with her husband, just because she wanted to. Seems independent-minded enough to me.

 

[Machjo]

Are Jewish men brainwashed into wearing a Yamaka? What about Catholics and the rosary beads and the cross? Isn't that the same bondage symbol?

Sure Jewish men are brainwashed into wearing the Yamaka. That is what they are taught since their childhood, they are not told anything different, so they wear the Yamaka. So what is your point?

When a boy or a girl is brought up from the childhood seeped in one particular religion, one particular philosophy, is not exposed to any other viewpoint, it can reasonably be said that he/she is brainwashed into that religion, that philosophy.

Wearing Yamaka is a sign of bondage, a sign of submission to God. Same with the rosary bead and the cross, with those Catholics show their devotion (or bondage if you prefer) to God.

I think that those who wear the Hajab are comfortable in it and those who wear a full Burka covering are comfortable doing so.

Indeed they are berceuse they are brainwashed into doing so.

What people wear isn't important other than it makes them comfortable to do so. It's when people are taught to hate based on tradition or religion that the big problems arise.

Not necessarily. What people wear can be used to make them feel different, make them feel inferior. Thus Hitler made the Jews wear the Star of David. The purpose was to make Jews feel inferior, to make them feel marked. Same way a hijab or a burka is meant to make women feel inferior, to reinforce their subhuman status in an Islamic society.

Then using the same arguments:

Are we brainwashed into celebrating Canada day and believing in Canada with its current borders even though scientifically we can't see any border dividing Canada from the US from space?

Same argument, isn't it: it all depends on what we are raised to believe?

 

[Machjo]

Likewise, are Canada's First nations brainwashed into believeing taht they aren't Canadian?

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Again, more stereotyping. I knew one Muslim woman convert who really stirred up her local Muslim community by always questioning her imam and the rules he taught, always challenging him to cite from the Qur'an. On one occasion at a funeral, the women were stading on one side, the men on the other, yet she insisted on staying with her husband, just because she wanted to. Seems independent-minded enough to me.

Those are exceptions, Machjo, not the rules.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Then using the same arguments:

Are we brainwashed into celebrating Canada day and believing in Canada with its current borders even though scientifically we can't see any border dividing Canada from the US from space?

Same argument, isn't it: it all depends on what we are raised to believe?

Right you re, Machjo, it all depends upon what we are raised to believe. In most Islamic countries women are raised to believe that they are subhuman, that they are inferior to men, very much inferior to their husband, and they must wear the veil or the burka as an outward sign of their submission to the superior being, their husband.

I call that brainwashing, you may call it something else. But at the end of the day, if you are raised to believe that you are inferior to somebody else, that will become your entrenched belief and you will be happy with it.

 

[gerryh]

I'm curious has to how one would explain someone that was raised Catholic.... but never required to wear a crusifix...left the faith when they were in their mid teens, reaquired their faith in their early 30's, and now where's a crusifix ALL the time. Where exactley in there did the brainwashing occur?

 

[strange]

Brainwashing? its learned behavior, which can be negative or positive. Its really a cultural choice.

 

[Cliffy]

I'm curious has to how one would explain someone that was raised Catholic.... but never required to wear a crusifix...left the faith when they were in their mid teens, reaquired their faith in their early 30's, and now where's a crusifix ALL the time. Where exactley in there did the brainwashing occur?

In their thirties. The mistake is calling it re-aquiring a faith. They would be re-aquiring a religion, which is a belief system and does not have anything to do with faith. It is a giving up of personal responsibility to search for the truth on their own. They give that up to the priesthood.

Disclaimer: that is only my opinion.

 

[Cliffy]

Does the OP insinuate that Sharia Law is akin to slapstick comedy?

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Brainwashing? its learned behavior, which can be negative or positive. Its really a cultural choice.

Isn't brainwashing also a learned behavior, strange? That is why i said, i call it brainwashing, others may call it something else.