Refuse to choose® women deserve better® than abortion

[Cannuck]

Sorry JLM, but I don’t think the position that human life begins at conception, that abortion is murder, it should be banned in all circumstances, and doctors and women who participate in abortions should be imprisoned, that is not the position that one can compromise with or even try to understand. To me, it is an extreme, religious, fanatic position.

There can be no compromise with such a position. After all, what would be the compromise with such a position? Put the doctor (and the woman) in prison for only five years, not ten years?

There can be no compromise.

This highlights the biggest flaw in the pro-choice logic. Because Joey doesn't like the logical outcome of accepting the fetus as human he makes up excuses not to accept the fetus as human. This was the same approach taken by religious leaders that couldn't accept that the world was not the center of the universe. The logical conclusion to the theory was that the Church was wrong. They argued against it, not from a logical or scientific perspective but, purely because they couldn't accept the logical results.

For a guy that claims to embrace science, he sure does a bad job of it.

 

[JLM]

This highlights the biggest flaw in the pro-choice logic. Because Joey doesn't like the logical outcome of accepting the fetus as human he makes up excuses not to accept the fetus as human. This was the same approach taken by religious leaders that couldn't accept that the world was not the center of the universe. The logical conclusion to the theory was that the Church was wrong. They argued against it, not from a logical or scientific perspective but, purely because they couldn't accept the logical results.

For a guy that claims to embrace science, he sure does a bad job of it.

You have it right (for once) Cannuck.............:lol::lol::lol:

 

[Kreskin]

The argument that it is only anti-abortion people (even the pro-life experts) that say human life is prebirth is wrong.

THE PRO-CHOICE ACTION NETWORK

This is a helluva good link.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

The argument that it is only anti-abortion people (even the pro-life experts) that say human life is prebirth is wrong.

THE PRO-CHOICE ACTION NETWORK

Anna, I looked at the website, and it is a very long article. I skimmed through it, but nowhere it says that fetus is a human being since conception. However, it did say something else:

Before going further, we need to clarify and interpret some anti-choice language. First, anti-choicers often confuse the adjective "human" and the noun "human being," giving them the same meaning.

How perceptive. That is exactly what anti-abortionists are doing here, they confuse ‘human’ with ‘human being’. Fetus is human, it is not a human being.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

No, I won't show you any more research because you wouldn't admit to being wrong even on your deathbed, IMO.

Sure Anna, if you keep showing extreme right, religious right websites, I will call you on it.

 

[lone wolf]

If it was a human fetus on the other thread, it's a human fetus on this one too....

 

[AnnaG]

If it was a human fetus on the other thread, it's a human fetus on this one too....

Maybe the poor simpleton thinks we can't win if he keeps switching threads. lol
After all with him it isn't about correct information, it's about winning.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

While we are at it we should get one other thing straightened out. Where is it carved in stone that "right wing" people are any less sensible or knowledgable or wise than "left wing" people? Until someone shows me scientific proof of that we can not accept that premise.........ie, it's bullsh*t.

JLM, right wing websites have an ax to grind, they have an agenda. So they will only present facts which favor their side, will twist facts, present half truths and so on, sometimes they will invent facts out of thin air, anything to push their agenda. I don’t believe anything I see on a right wing website.

To be fair, let wing websites also do that, I wouldn’t trust anything I see on a left wing website wither. That is why I look at non partisan, respectable organizations such as AMA, CMA, AAP, GMC etc.

However, have you ever seen me quote a left wing website? I would never do that, I know they are not reliable. However, Anna seems to delight in quoting extreme right, religious right websites and insists that we accept them as Gospel truth.

Well, that is never going to happen. I don’t believe anything I see on a far right website (unless of course confirmed by an independent, reputable source).

 

[Cannuck]

Maybe the poor simpleton thinks we can't win if he keeps switching threads. lol
After all with him it isn't about correct information, it's about winning.

If you're not careful with the "simpleton" talk you just may be lucky enough to have Joey put you on ignore.

 

[lone wolf]

If you're not careful with the "simpleton" talk you just may be lucky enough to have Joey put you on ignore.

All you've got to do is get the better of him ... corner him ... then you, too, can delight in unharassed posts

 

[AnnaG]

If you're not careful with the "simpleton" talk you just may be lucky enough to have Joey put you on ignore.

Shucks. I take it that's what happens to those who show him up? Too late anyway, he's on my ignore list. I kinda miss watching him squirm and wiggle under the pins, though.

 

[lone wolf]

Shucks. I take it that's what happens to those who show him up? Too late anyway, he's on my ignore list. I kinda miss watching him squirm and wiggle under the pins, though.

Joey's more the narcissist cat who falls into the fishbowl. He'll glare at anyone in the room, puff himself up then lick the wet spot with that "I-meant-to-do-that" air that only a narcissist cat can have.

 

[AnnaG]

Oh, well.
It just occurred to me that if I have the poor simpleton on ignore I can't see his post if he ever finds any science that says a person isn't a human till it is born. Maybe I'll lift the box off him sometime. Not today, though.

 

[Cannuck]

Oh, well.
It just occurred to me that if I have the poor simpleton on ignore I can't see his post if he ever finds any science that says a person isn't a human till it is born. Maybe I'll lift the box off him sometime. Not today, though.

I'm sure somebody could point it out to you if it was to ever occur. I wouldn't hold my breath. Joey isn't really into backing up what he says.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Oh, well.
It just occurred to me that if I have the poor simpleton on ignore I can't see his post if he ever finds any science that says a person isn't a human till it is born. Maybe I'll lift the box off him sometime. Not today, though.

Not likely Anna, you evidently don’t know how science works. Currently the overwhelming opinion is the scientific community is that life is a continuum and has no beginning or end (and fetus is not a human being at conception), in spite of what your American College of Pediatricians ( a religious right website) says.

Let us say that there is a sea change and consensus among scientists becomes that fetus is a human being from conception. Things move slowly in science, such a sea change will take decades to happen.

Even if that happens, I probably will be long dead by then and I suspect so would you. So don’t pin your hopes on AMA, CMA or GMC saying that fetus is a human being at conception, ain’t gonna happen.

 

[bluedog]

How many scientists are NOT atheists? They are proven left wing extremists out to drain our economies for wasted space flights, like mars. Maybe, we can have a better Wii or maybe more tunes on our ipods! Whew-Wii !!!
No they want to tear all the oil from our underground deposits and refill them with seawater! Maybe like in Canada they can use your gas money to squeeze a few drops of oil from a hundred square acres of earth after they rid the unnecessary flora and fauna of any ecology. They don't do this to keep your car running, No, they need to do it guarantee their paychecks coming in and making all the those big wheels- their bosses- turn more quietly!
Now. Don't forgot all those God forsakers, with the doctorates of Plato-like atheistic collegiate studies who make all the billions of dollars for those drug companies who pay for your wife's vacation! All the while these get famous, get rich quick deniers of God, who care nothing for our deteriorating HUMAN immune systems, they pump us even more full of pills and IVs that will be outdated in 18months by their rival.

These are your rich liberal fanatics filling your mind with No God No Way!!! Then ask where is the nearest bank?
Sir!!!
They ALL NEED to deny the fact that ANY two humans reproducing don't necessarily make a human, because afterall that is how man evolved right, they "discovered" the stages of human development but now wont stand up for it? Notice that? Wonder why? This is why... they want you focused on Fagrights and Abortion, social issues while they strip you and our world bare-

strip it and you for their next "Science" project!!!:fish:
God help us all!!!

 

[gerryh]

How many scientists are NOT atheists? They are proven left wing extremists out to drain our economies for wasted space flights, like mars. Maybe, we can have a better Wii or maybe more tunes on our ipods! Whew-Wii !!!
No they want to tear all the oil from our underground deposits and refill them with seawater! Maybe like in Canada they can use your gas money to squeeze a few drops of oil from a hundred square acres of earth after they rid the unnecessary flora and fauna of any ecology. They don't do this to keep your car running, No, they need to do it guarantee their paychecks coming in and making all the those big wheels- their bosses- turn more quietly!
Now. Don't forgot all those God forsakers, with the doctorates of Plato-like atheistic collegiate studies who make all the billions of dollars for those drug companies who pay for your wife's vacation! All the while these get famous, get rich quick deniers of God, who care nothing for our deteriorating HUMAN immune systems, they pump us even more full of pills and IVs that will be outdated in 18months by their rival.

These are your rich liberal fanatics filling your mind with No God No Way!!! Then ask where is the nearest bank?
Sir!!!
They ALL NEED to deny the fact that ANY two humans reproducing don't necessarily make a human, because afterall that is how man evolved right, they "discovered" the stages of human development but now wont stand up for it? Notice that? Wonder why? This is why... they want you focused on Fagrights and Abortion, social issues while they strip you and our world bare-

strip it and you for their next "Science" project!!!:fish:
God help us all!!!

Thank you sjp.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Bluedog, evidently you don’t know the difference between science and technology. The projects that you mention, space flight and extraction of oil are not science, but technology.

Scientists develop the science, they study the space, develop the principles of motion (like Newton’s’ laws of motion), the principles of rocket combustion etc. It is the engineers or technologists who use that knowledge to develop the space flight.

Same way, scientists develop the physical and chemical principles behind extraction (chemical reactions, fluid dynamics, thermodynamics etc.), Petroleum engineers take that knowledge and apply it to oil extraction.

So you are blaming the wrong persons in you zeal to condemn technology.

 

[JLM]

Anna, I looked at the website, and it is a very long article. I skimmed through it, but nowhere it says that fetus is a human being since conception. However, it did say something else:

Before going further, we need to clarify and interpret some anti-choice language. First, anti-choicers often confuse the adjective "human" and the noun "human being," giving them the same meaning.

How perceptive. That is exactly what anti-abortionists are doing here, they confuse ‘human’ with ‘human being’. Fetus is human, it is not a human being.

We are getting into semantics now, which is strictly a matter of interpretation.

 

[VanIsle]

Anna, I looked at the website, and it is a very long article. I skimmed through it, but nowhere it says that fetus is a human being since conception. However, it did say something else:

Before going further, we need to clarify and interpret some anti-choice language. First, anti-choicers often confuse the adjective "human" and the noun "human being," giving them the same meaning.

How perceptive. That is exactly what anti-abortionists are doing here, they confuse ‘human’ with ‘human being’. Fetus is human, it is not a human being.

Sorry SJP but you are really stretching things here. That's one definition but it is no more credible than the one I'm going to show you. It all still comes down to nothing more than opinions.
Question
Hi,
I was hoping you could answer a question that's been nagging me for the past couple of years. Is there a great difference in using the phrase 'human being' and just plain saying 'human'?

Is 'human being' used especially by humanists/human exceptionalists? Do some people in some professions use it more than others? When is it appropriate to drop (or add) the 'being'?

Answer

They are quite interchangeable. Human Being is a bit more formal in nature. It may be used more often in those situations when distinguishing between a "human like robot" and a real person. You may find it more comfortable to use the more formal version when teaching children or perhaps in other formal situations but this is an individual decision.