Let me word it more correctly - it is Sunni extremism that is at war with the Shiia. The conflict Iran had with Republican hero Saddam was a sad manifestation of this difficulty.
Protest in Iran
- Thread starter Corduroy
- Start date
No Eagle - I just misstated it. Still, there always was and remains conflict.
By contrast, your hero Colpy refers to Shiia as Islamist when that is a Sunni ideology and has failed to correct himself.
By contrast, your hero Colpy refers to Shiia as Islamist when that is a Sunni ideology and has failed to correct himself.
I wouldn't be surprised if this was technically true (technically as in 50%+1), but I've never heard or read anything that confirms it. This thread has devolved into an uncivil debate, which I won't be taking part in. I only politely ask that you provide evidence for this claim. It's not something I'm arguing against, but certainly something I'd like to know if it was true.
This quote here:
leads me to believe that you value standards of evidence and look down on those who don't back up their claims.
You didn't mistate... you did what you always did and fired from the hip and got called out on it.
You need to do some reading.
The definition of Islamist is "supporting or advocating Islamic Fundementalism". Which of course Iran does or else why would they call their nation the Islamic Republic of Iran?
Absolutely not! I'd like to see the Iranian people rise up and overthrow their government. I believe in separation of church and state. I'd like to see Iran become a free SECULAR democracy. I am aware that Iran's clerics vet candidates as Colpy mentioned. Since everyone is aware of this and its in their constitution, I would consider that interference, not fraud.
Fraud is when you stuff ballot boxes, people vote multiple times, children and dead people vote and so on... I keep hearing that Iran's elections were fraudulent, just like you have. Claims that Iran's elections were fraudulent are almost never accompanied by references to the evidence. I had to go digging for it to find out the basis of these claims. It wasn't that easy to find and what I saw did not impress me. Let's put it this way. The evidence suggests election fraud, but its hardly conclusive. I'm not saying I know for certain Iran's elections were free and fair. On the contrary, I suspect that Iran's last elections were fraudulent, but what I found didn't convince me beyond a reasonable doubt.
My point is that I suspect you have no clue why Iran's last elections were considered by some people as fraudulent. Unless you are aware of that evidence, then you you aren't judging Iran's last election for yourself. Some talking head on your idiot box told you Iran's last elections were fraudulent, showed you some images of protesters on Iranian streets holding up signs, the police brutally cracking down... (That isn't evidence either) and you just took the talking head's word for it. That's not being informed, that's called being manipulated...
BTW, opposition protests aren't proof of fraud either. They could be sore losers.
So you tell me. On what basis do you believe Iran's elections were fraudulent.
Oh yes please don't twist my posts into some sort of support for Iran's theocracy. I absolutely support free and fair elections in Iran without religious or any other interference. I am on the side of Iran's opposition protesters.
Ok then. The Guardian Council are the only ones who can chose who the people will vote for. Is that a free and fair election?
http://election.princeton.edu/2009/06/18/flash-statistical-evidence-for-iranian-election-fraud/
From the country some of you most admire and support. They never had free elections.
TEHRAN, Iran – Hardline Iranian lawmakers called on Tuesday for the country's opposition leaders to face trial and be put to death, a day after clashes between [COLOR=#366388! important][COLOR=#366388! important]opposition [COLOR=#366388! important]protesters[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] and security forces left one person dead and dozens injured.
Tens of thousands of people turned out for the opposition rally Monday in solidarity with Egypt's popular revolt that toppled President Hosni Mubarak after nearly 30 years in power. The demonstration was the first major show of strength from Iran's beleaguered opposition in more than a year.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_iran_opposition
Believe me, the non-elected Supreme Leader of Iran and the non-elected Guardian Council will clear the streets with gunfire before they go by the way of Egypt.
In the fall when food runs out...
On UG99 in Iran…
“UG99 has made it to Iran” where “besides wheat there are Barbary bushes, which are alternate hosts.
“The thing we don’t know about Iran is whether UG99 is actually established there or if it must blow in from somewhere like Yemen every year. That’s a big unknown and, unfortunately, it’s a bit difficult to get good information out of Iran.
“The big concern is that, if it isn’t already, UG99 will eventually be established in Iran. From there, the wind currents will take it everywhere.
“Iran grows a lot of wheat. Plus, the country has Barbary bushes which allow the disease to go through the sexual cycle and become established.”
On UG99 in Iran…
“UG99 has made it to Iran” where “besides wheat there are Barbary bushes, which are alternate hosts.
“The thing we don’t know about Iran is whether UG99 is actually established there or if it must blow in from somewhere like Yemen every year. That’s a big unknown and, unfortunately, it’s a bit difficult to get good information out of Iran.
“The big concern is that, if it isn’t already, UG99 will eventually be established in Iran. From there, the wind currents will take it everywhere.
“Iran grows a lot of wheat. Plus, the country has Barbary bushes which allow the disease to go through the sexual cycle and become established.”
That would be compared to the 'zero' elections that they had from '53-'79 while under a US Dictator, that just happens to be the same number of elections Egypt was free to have while under ..... wait for it ....... a US Dictator for 30 years. While it is hard to judge the total number of protesters it is apparent there is a total lack of Egyptian style of 'crowd control', tear gas, hired goons to beat/kill protesters, etc.
Hundreds of thousands march in Tehran
With the US supporting revolution in Iran why did they not support Egypt's uprising?? Oh yeah, that form of repression is encouraged when several billion is given to the 'elite'. Were the people informed all the tanks and such were meant to be used against themselves, not likely as it is an Americanized operation. If the US is keen to use twitter and facebook to instigate revolutions in foreign lands (yet not used in Egypt as that could be a real revolution depending who ends up holding the reigns, currently the only ones making a living are the power elite and that means the military officers are also the business owners for all intensive purposes)
With the freezing going on in the south of the US and northern Mexico watch for food prices to dramatically rise this month in North America. Imagine what a drought would do to the prices for the upcoming winter. We could be begging Iran (and other countries) for table scraps if we had any plans except starvation for the poor, while under Martial Law of course.
Perhaps you should pick up a paper and read.
Oh brother. Drink that Kool-Aid
I bet it Pi*** you off seeing the Iranians rise up. It's going on as we speak. But don't worry MHz, the Iranian Govt WILL mow them down like grass if they have to.
How foolish. Dream on.
Do you realize how stupid this sounds?
The US never supported an uprising by the poor of the land in Egypt and the US fully supported their Dictator doing whatever it took to stay in power, at least until the crowd refused to disperse.
Who was their choice replacement, the guy who run the torture chambers that the US takes advantage of?
Are you saying the top 10% that consume almost 30% of the 'goods' aren't also part of the Military Elite?
So far it is the US sponsored protesters that did the killing, that is certainly what the US and Israel encourage the Egyptian Dictator.
(in part)
Police used tear gas against the protesters in central Tehran's Enghelab, or Revolution, square and in Imam Hossein square, as well as in other nearby main streets. Demonstrators responded by setting garbage bins on fire to protect themselves from the stinging white clouds.
The pro-government Fars News Agency reported that a bystander was shot dead by protesters.
From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110215/NATION/102150371/Iran-protests-dispersed-by-police#ixzz1E2ezaBqq
You don't think the US Gov would open fire on large crowd going after the goods in a food warehouse that is meant for the same group that receives the US aid. (Military elite, Politicians, which also happen to be the business owners) In America (common)stockholders would be on the wrong end of the barrel.
That is idiotic, but no surprise coming from you.
Yes, I am aware of the schism in Islam. Yes, I am aware that the guys that flew into the WTC were Sunni. Yes, I am aware that the Sunnis in Iraq are murdering Shia by the hundreds. Yes, I am aware Osama bin Laden considers Shia to be dogs.
BUT, if you are blowing up Jews in Argentina, shipping missiles to Hezbollah and Hamas, threatening to destroy Israel, call the USA the "Great Satan", and the little Blue Book put out by your spiritual leader gives instructions on how to break in your 9 year old wife, and what to do with a sheep after you have intercourse with it....you are an ISLAMIST.....defined as "a fundamentalist Muslim Lunatic"
BTW
Read more: Iran lawmakers urge death for opposition leaders
Sounds like a healthy democracy to me. (sarcasm alert)
There are no homosexuals in Iran according to Iranian President Ahmadinejad. Do you want to know why he's speaking the truth? Because the Theocrats in Iran kill homosexuals along with adulterous women.
I thought you said that Iran was a relatively stable place and that the last uprising was really only orchestrated by Western media. Or was that one of your other cohorts?
You know Colpy, if you could pare that down a bit it would make an awesome signature. :smile:
I have to quote Colpy, this cannot be put any differently to you: "BUT, if you are blowing up Jews in Argentina, shipping missiles to Hezbollah and Hamas, threatening to destroy Israel, call the USA the "Great Satan", and the little Blue Book put out by your spiritual leader gives instructions on how to break in your 9 year old wife, and what to do with a sheep after you have intercourse with it....you are an ISLAMIST.....defined as "a fundamentalist Muslim Lunatic""
As opposed to the elections in the west, where the only choices are between a bunch of rich ass holes who intend to further oppress the third world. :lol:
Democracy doesn't exist