Polar bears turn cannibalistic as climate change depletes arctic food supply

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

Right. So here we have two claims. hers is that climate change is causing an increase in filial cannibalism. Kakato and apparently your claim is that she's full of crap. Neither she nor Kak and you have provided any evidence for either claim. For all you know she may just have evidence to back up her claims. If she does, your claim that she's full of crap is proven wrong. If she doesn't have anything to back up her claim, then your claim may be right. It has nothing to do with proving a negative. Right again. Nope but, her having a lack of evidence doesn't prove that Kak and you are right either.

lol.

If someone tells me a Yeti ate their cat and I say that they are full of crap or that its a load of bull the burden of proof is not mine to prove.

From everything I have read this woman is offering anecdotal information to hedge theory on global warming. Notice I didn't say I think global warming is a bunch of crap. What happened here is that Kakato considers the whole GW debate nothing but bunk and from there it degenerated into "I am smarter than you - No you aren't!" pissing contest. Which really has piss all to do with polar bears at that point.

The argument being made in your last sentence above regarding the bears and the lack of scientific data sounds more like something a conspiracy theorist argument. Want to change my mind? Want me to retract the load of bull statement?

Show me some data that is neither subjective or anecdotal.

About the bears.

 

[L Gilbert]

If someone tells me a Yeti ate their cat and I say that they are full of crap or that its a load of bull the burden of proof is not mine to prove.

Well. If I say a Yeti ate one of our cats I would have to come up with evidence to show it's true. Yes. But if you claim I am full of crap without having any evidence to show I am wrong, you are in the same boat as me. Like I said, this isn't about proving a negative. I make a claim. You make a claim. I show or don't show anything to prove mine. You show or don't show anything to prove yours. It's as simple as that. 2 claims need two proofs. If, on the other hand, you simply said you don't believe me. That's fine. You have nothing to prove. Also, if you had said you THINK I am full of crap, there also, you don't have anything to prove.

From everything I have read this woman is offering anecdotal information to hedge theory on global warming. Notice I didn't say I think global warming is a bunch of crap. What happened here is that Kakato considers the whole GW debate nothing but bunk

That's my impression, too.

and from there it degenerated into "I am smarter than you - No you aren't!" pissing contest.

That's not my impression at all. Mine is that kak declared the woman is full of crap and then declared climate change a bunch of crap. Ton and I loaded the woodwork with data proving him wrong about the latter declaration and he provided nothing to support himself. It had nothing to do with an intelligence pissing match, IMO.

Which really has piss all to do with polar bears at that point.

It really doesn't matter if it had anything to do with polar bears, aardvarks, or gnats. The fact remains that Kak makes claims without anything to support them and refuses to acknowledge ANY evidence proving him wrong. THAT makes him seem to prefer to remain ignorant. And THAT last sentence makes it appear that he's not terribly bright, as well.

The argument being made in your last sentence above regarding the bears and the lack of scientific data sounds more like something a conspiracy theorist argument.

All I said in the last sentence of my previous post was that a lack of evidence doesn't prove anything one way or the other except that there's a lack of evidence.

Want to change my mind?

Only if there's evidence.

Want me to retract the load of bull statement?

Nope. Just add that you THINK she's full of crap. There's a huge difference between stating an opinion and stating a claim.

Show me some data that is neither subjective or anecdotal.

If I find evidence, I'll post it, believe me.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

I give up Polar bears are eating their young because of shrinking Ice.

 

[L Gilbert]

I give up Polar bears are eating their young because of shrinking Ice.

lmao I question that, but whatever floats yer boat. (pun intended)

 

[DaSleeper]

I give up Polar bears are eating their young because of shrinking Ice.

Now you got it .............everything that happens from now on will be because of the new religion...graphs notwithstanding

 

[Niflmir]

Discussions with Kakato end up reminding me of Feynman's description of the cargo cult. They just couldn't see past the form of things.

 

[Tonington]

If someone tells me a Yeti ate their cat and I say that they are full of crap or that its a load of bull the burden of proof is not mine to prove.

Yes well a Yeti isn't a real animal, there's no evidence the Yeti even exists until someone actually produces evidence. Cannibalism does exist. Increased prevalence is a real possibility.

Apples and oranges.

Now you got it .............everything that happens from now on will be because of the new religion...graphs notwithstanding

:roll: That is a pile of crap. New religion...show me any religion that requires proof of claims DaS instead of relying on faith. It's faith without evidence to say that prevalence is increasing. It's faith without evidence to say that prevalence is not increasing.

 

[Niflmir]

:roll: That is a pile of crap. New religion...show me any religion that requires proof of claims DaS instead of relying on faith. It's faith without evidence to say that prevalence is increasing. It's faith without evidence to say that prevalence is not increasing.

In astronomy the type of statistical error you are talking about is known as observation bias. With astronomy, it is very difficult to pin down. Are we not seeing any gamma-ray bursts in the distant past because they did not exist, or because it is very difficult to observe gamma rays from that distance?

 

[Tonington]

In astronomy the type of statistical error you are talking about is known as observation bias. With astronomy, it is very difficult to pin down. Are we not seeing any gamma-ray bursts in the distant past because they did not exist, or because it is very difficult to observe gamma rays from that distance?

Yes exactly.

 

[DaSleeper]

"Mark Twain"

 

[Niflmir]

"Mark Twain"

That quote is in regards to morality and in particular, patriotism; it is a hint towards my personal beliefs on ethics. The funny thing about reality, is that it does not care whether you believe it or not: if you jump off a cliff, gravity will pull you down. So you better have a 'chute ready. So, no, not everybody gets to decide what is real and what is not.

This is exactly why I brought up the cargo cult. These were people whose economies flourished when planes were flying into their nations during the second world war. What they saw was: planes come and we flourish. After the second war, when flights stopped arriving, the cults built straw replicas of planes and airports, hoping to attract the same sort of economy. Of course it failed.

The cargo cults are an embodiment of a shallow, non-empirical understanding of how things work. The same accusation is being levied against the question of whether polar bear cannibalism is on the rise.

 

[DaSleeper]

That quote is in regards to morality and in particular, patriotism; it is a hint towards my personal beliefs on ethics. .

IT is?????

 

[Niflmir]

IT is?????

Yes, the usage of the word patriotism should give it away. I know that the words "right" and "wrong" are ambiguous, especially outside of any context. The quote in question comes from a speech by Twain when the US was about to enter war. You can find the expanded text here: http://web.mit.edu/norvin/www/somethingelse/twain.html. Twain was not so vain as to imply that the truth of physical reality is democratically chosen.

 

[DaSleeper]

Yes, the usage of the word patriotism should give it away. I know that the words "right" and "wrong" are ambiguous, especially outside of any context. The quote in question comes from a speech by Twain when the US was about to enter war. You can find the expanded text here: http://web.mit.edu/norvin/www/somethingelse/twain.html. Twain was not so vain as to imply that the truth of physical reality is democratically chosen.

I was refering to his quote on statistics....

The sacasm is lost when you have to explain it:lol:

 

[Tonington]

I was refering to his quote on statistics....

Not so easy to know what you're referring to when you just type out someone's name. You could have been referring to another quote of his like "Faith is beleiving what you know ain't so".

 

[DaSleeper]

Also a good way to illustrate the OP jumping to conclusions based on on interpretation of data coloured by belief......;-)
There's method in my madness sometimes...:smile:

 

[Cannuck]

This is exactly why I brought up the cargo cult. These were people whose economies flourished when planes were flying into their nations during the second world war. What they saw was: planes come and we flourish. After the second war, when flights stopped arriving, the cults built straw replicas of planes and airports, hoping to attract the same sort of economy.

Makes sense to me, that's why I'm a Pastafarian. As has been proven, global warming is a direct effect of the shrinking pirate population. All this other talk, as to the reasons for global warming, is nothing more than deflection.

 

[Niflmir]

I was refering to his quote on statistics....

The sacasm is lost when you have to explain it:lol:

Often I just ignore sarcasm in an attempt to keep discussions serious.

Statistics are pretty onerous though. There are lots of counter intuitive things about them. Then there are the oft repeated mantras that nobody seems to apply properly: "Regression to the mean," "Correlation doesn't imply causation," etc.

In regards to regression to the mean, some journalists were astounded that the children of highly educated people were less likely than the general population to be highly educated. I find this quite unsurprising.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

Yes well a Yeti isn't a real animal, there's no evidence the Yeti even exists until someone actually produces evidence. Cannibalism does exist. Increased prevalence is a real possibility..

Do you have proof that there are no Yeti's:lol:

 

[captain morgan]

Do you have proof that there are no Yeti's:lol:

I've seen them, yes sir I have.

Interesting and fun-fact: The funny thing about the Yeti - they only show themselves when you have peyote....