Ontario Government is out to Lunch

[PoliticalNick]

My personal opinion on this is that IVF should not be covered. Having a baby is not some innate right bestowed upon women. Some women just can't have children, including my sister (blood disorder) and sister-in-law (cannot carry to term for some reason). It is very sad but not my responsibility to ensure every woman can have a baby. I have a social responsibility to help them stay alive but not to reproduce.

 

[BornRuff]

Good grief Bornruff you are absolutely right. Why did I bother?

Well, how do you really decide what is worthy or not?

My mom had Pancriatic Cancer. Adding up the cost of all the treatment she got, the government easily spent over 50k on her treatment, when from the start they likely knew that her chances of being cured, or even living out the rest of the year, were pretty much 0.

Under strict utilitarian standards like yours, this might seem like a complete waste of money.

For us though, it was immensely valuable. It gave her an opportunity to fight, it helped give her the best possible quality of life for the time she had left, and it made sure that she could be as comfortable as possible up until the end.

If you think this is a worthwhile expenditure for our healthcare system, then you are obviously passing judgement based on more than just strict utilitarian grounds.

Do some research on this. A large, vocal and organized groups of parents. They have been fighting for this for years.

Exactly how big is this group?

 

[Goober]

Well, how do you really decide what is worthy or not?

My mom had Pancriatic Cancer. Adding up the cost of all the treatment she got, the government easily spent over 50k on her treatment, when from the start they likely knew that her chances of being cured, or even living out the rest of the year, were pretty much 0.

Under strict utilitarian standards like yours, this might seem like a complete waste of money.

For us though, it was immensely valuable. It gave her an opportunity to fight, it helped give her the best possible quality of life for the time she had left, and it made sure that she could be as comfortable as possible up until the end.

If you think this is a worthwhile expenditure for our healthcare system, then you are obviously passing judgement based on more than just strict utilitarian grounds.



Exactly how big is this group?

Try to keep the comparisons apples to apples. Other than that you agreed with his OP

This Saturday my wife and I will be attending a benefit for Hospice that is dedicated to a friend of ours son who died of skin cancer. In addition to this, my Sister-Inlaw is a cancer survivor and a very close friend of mine's wife has pancreatic cancer. I'm not that different than anyone here, we've all been touched by this disease either directly or indirectly, but I am aghast when I see governments allocate tax payer dollars for treatments like Invitro while leaving refusing to fund drugs and treatment for cancer. Something I've learned about cancer is that we are not doing everything we can to help patients and families. Drugs are astronomically expensive and getting in for diagnosis and treatment can be agonizing slow.

While I don't have an issue with women wanting to get pregnant, the fact is that we shouldn't be robbing Peter to pay Paul. $50 million dollars can be utilized for life saving and life extending treatment. If someone cannot get pregnant I would suggest that they consider other alternatives including adoption. An adopted child will love you just as much as kid that comes from your body.

I find this allocation to be nothing more than an attempt to buy votes and no matter the Party I think it is extremely short sighted.

.

 

[BornRuff]

Try to keep the comparisons apples to apples. Other than that you agreed with his OP.

What are you talking about?

 

[Goober]

What are you talking about?

That you agreed. Glad to see that.

 

[BornRuff]

That you agreed. Glad to see that.

Lol, agreed with what? That cancer is bad? Or that cancer care is good?

Since when was that the point of this thread?

 

[Goober]

Lol, agreed with what? That cancer is bad? Or that cancer care is good?

Since when was that the point of this thread?

Read the OP and his point. Then read what you wrote.
You agreed with him. Is that a bad thing?

 

[BornRuff]

Read the OP and his point. Then read what you wrote.
You agreed with him. Is that a bad thing?

I did in fact read the OP, and all subsequent posts.

Why can't you explain exactly what point you think we agree on?

 

[Goober]

Well, how do you really decide what is worthy or not?

My mom had Pancriatic Cancer. Adding up the cost of all the treatment she got, the government easily spent over 50k on her treatment, when from the start they likely knew that her chances of being cured, or even living out the rest of the year, were pretty much 0.

Under strict utilitarian standards like yours, this might seem like a complete waste of money.

For us though, it was immensely valuable. It gave her an opportunity to fight, it helped give her the best possible quality of life for the time she had left, and it made sure that she could be as comfortable as possible up until the end.

If you think this is a worthwhile expenditure for our healthcare system, then you are obviously passing judgement based on more than just strict utilitarian grounds.



Exactly how big is this group?

Read this- then read the OP. You both agree.
My condolences on the loss of your mother.

 

[BornRuff]

Read this- then read the OP. You both agree.
My condolences on the loss of your mother.

Dude, use your words and explain what the **** you are talking about, or just don't bother posting.

I read my post. I read his post. Speak your mind or shut up.

This is stupid.

 

[lone wolf]

Exactly how big is this group?

I suppose if you were to do your OWN research, the answer is out there

 

[Goober]

Dude, use your words and explain what the **** you are talking about, or just don't bother posting.

I read my post. I read his post. Speak your mind or shut up.

This is stupid.

Not worth the trouble.

 

[BornRuff]

Not worth the trouble.

I'm sorry, but when I am talking about something deeply personal to me, like my mothers death, I am not going to be very patient with people who use it as an opportunity to **** around with me.

I suppose if you were to do your OWN research, the answer is out there

Would you not expect the person who made the claim in the first place to have some idea of this?

 

[damngrumpy]

I support the providing funding for cancer patients it is about common decency and
compassion. For mothers attempting to create new life I do support assistance for
those people as well. We have to understand these are investments in our future
not simply line items of an expense form.

 

[lone wolf]

I'm sorry, but when I am talking about something deeply personal to me, like my mothers death, I am not going to be very patient with people who use it as an opportunity to **** around with me.



Would you not expect the person who made the claim in the first place to have some idea of this?

I expect if I wanted to research for my own information I wouldn't be content to settle for someone else's. Might as well have your own or make your own mistakes

 

[Sal]

I support the providing funding for cancer patients it is about common decency and
compassion. For mothers attempting to create new life I do support assistance for
those people as well. We have to understand these are investments in our future
not simply line items of an expense form.

While I have compassion for those unable to have children without medical support/intervention, it is not a health issue that will cause death or physical pain if pregnancy does not occur. Thus disease trumps infertility.

There are 1000's of children without parents. They too need care.

bottom line is triage... my money goes to the sick, the dying, the hungry, the homeless...

to me the need to reproduce oneself if you can afford all kinds of medical expenses is okay, but to expect me to pay for it...I have a problem with that...it seems selfish and egotistical when there are enough babies now to go around...

 

[Goober]

I'm sorry, but when I am talking about something deeply personal to me, like my mothers death, I am not going to be very patient with people who use it as an opportunity to **** around with me.



Would you not expect the person who made the claim in the first place to have some idea of this?

I was not using your loss of your mother. That was not my intent. You both agree on the use of funding in HC for things like critical care, as was your mothers need.
That is all I was saying.

 

[WLDB]

I agree, but only because I think we shouldn't be encouraging people to have children to begin with.

Agreed. Our population isnt exactly struggling. People are taking care of that stuff on their own.

 

[BornRuff]

I was not using your loss of your mother. That was not my intent. You both agree on the use of funding in HC for things like critical care, as was your mothers need.
That is all I was saying.

I am sorry, but assuming that anyone was every arguing against providing care for cancer patients is asinine.