Ontario Government is out to Lunch

[BornRuff]

This is targeted specifically at buying the votes of women. OHIP has enough shortfalls, that 50 million dollars could be utilized in other places.

I really don't know how much sense that makes. Will many people really care about this unless they personally need to use it?

I get the point that in general women seem to be more focused on having kids than men, but I don't think anyone really thinks about this sort of treatment until they are actively trying to have kids and not being successful. I don't think that is a very large portion of the population, and it would be an even smaller portion who's thoughts about this line up with the election cycle.

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

There are tonnes of stuff not covered. Frankly it should all be covered. If any type of coverage for any disease, test for disease, help with disease it should be covered. I have no problem with invetro being covered if you cover stuff like prostate tests or countless other stuff excluded. Elective stuff like plastic surgery (not resulting from accident) is the last on the list.

Perhaps if they weren't pissing money away buying votes by cancelling projects, they would have money for healthcare.

Good OP RCS.

 

[BornRuff]

No, but I watched a friend of mine son waste away while his young wife held his hand and his two young kids looked on.

I 100% empathize with you on this one. I went through this with my mom when she was far too young, and 3 friends so far. It is a terrible terrible thing to go through.

What I don't agree with is the idea that these situations are a reason not to do anything for anyone else. If we follow the logic that it is wrong to spend money on something when there are people worse off who you think need the money more, then it doesn't even really make sense to spend money on cancer patients. Why spend so much money on a person who has cancer, sometimes just to extend their life by a few months, when the same money could feed hundreds, sometimes thousands of kids in the third world and give them a chance at a long life?

OHIP can definitely improve care in a lot of areas, but I don't think that is just related to stuff like cancer care. Healthcare shouldn't just be about keeping us alive, but also allowing us to do the things that make life worth living.

 

[petros]

BumFluff...lol

 

[Sal]

This Saturday my wife and I will be attending a benefit for Hospice that is dedicated to a friend of ours son who died of skin cancer. In addition to this, my Sister-Inlaw is a cancer survivor and a very close friend of mine's wife has pancreatic cancer. I'm not that different than anyone here, we've all been touched by this disease either directly or indirectly, but I am aghast when I see governments allocate tax payer dollars for treatments like Invitro while leaving refusing to fund drugs and treatment for cancer. Something I've learned about cancer is that we are not doing everything we can to help patients and families. Drugs are astronomically expensive and getting in for diagnosis and treatment can be agonizing slow.

While I don't have an issue with women wanting to get pregnant, the fact is that we shouldn't be robbing Peter to pay Paul. $50 million dollars can be utilized for life saving and life extending treatment. If someone cannot get pregnant I would suggest that they consider other alternatives including adoption. An adopted child will love you just as much as kid that comes from your body.

I find this allocation to be nothing more than an attempt to buy votes and no matter the Party I think it is extremely short sighted.

Sorry to hear of the death of your friend's child. My mind can't begin to process the horror of such a death especially that of a child.

While I too doubt this is voter pandering, it is disconcerting to know that money which could help with cancer treatment is perhaps being diverted.

I do know I've heard comments from people with breast cancer speak about how successful their fundraising is and that they wished all types of cancer could receive the support that they felt that they received during treatment. Other forms of cancer do not seem to gain the same type of support. I don't have an answer here just saying it is a sad situation for all involved.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

I 100% empathize with you on this one. I went through this with my mom when she was far too young, and 3 friends so far. It is a terrible terrible thing to go through.

Thank you

What I don't agree with is the idea that these situations are a reason not to do anything for anyone else. If we follow the logic that it is wrong to spend money on something when there are people worse off who you think need the money more, then it doesn't even really make sense to spend money on cancer patients. Why spend so much money on a person who has cancer, sometimes just to extend their life by a few months, when the same money could feed hundreds, sometimes thousands of kids in the third world and give them a chance at a long life?

I'm not saying that. What I am saying is that most cancer patients have to seek other funding and even fund raising for treatment. I am not suggesting we take money out of Heart and Stroke research and treatment or any other pressing medical issue. But we are failing so terribly at taking care of the sick in this province I do think alotting $50 million to Invitro is by any means smart. That $50 million could used in a myriad of ways that will benefit ontario patients rather than a feel good gesture. Not be able to have children should not take priority over the treatments we should be administering.

OHIP can definitely improve care in a lot of areas, but I don't think that is just related to stuff like cancer care. Healthcare shouldn't just be about keeping us alive, but also allowing us to do the things that make life worth living.

Absolutely.

 

[BornRuff]

I'm not saying that. What I am saying is that most cancer patients have to seek other funding and even fund raising for treatment. I am not suggesting we take money out of Heart and Stroke research and treatment or any other pressing medical issue. But we are failing so terribly at taking care of the sick in this province I do think alotting $50 million to Invitro is by any means smart. That $50 million could used in a myriad of ways that will benefit ontario patients rather than a feel good gesture. Not be able to have children should not take priority over the treatments we should be administering.

I guess we mostly disagree on the value of something like IVF treatments. I don't think this is just a "feel good" gesture. Reproduction is a pretty fundamental part of life.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

I guess we mostly disagree on the value of something like IVF treatments. I don't think this is just a "feel good" gesture. Reproduction is a pretty fundamental part of life.

No it's not. Breathing and nutrition are a fundamental part of life.

Reproduction has no bearing on whether one lives or dies. And there is no epidemic of Female infertility so we as a species are in no danger of extinction.

 

[BornRuff]

No it's not. Breathing and nutrition are a fundamental part of life.

Reproduction has no bearing on whether one lives or dies. And there is no epidemic of Female infertility so we as a species are in no danger of extinction.

I don't know about you, but I know that lots of people see starting a family as one of the most basic purposes of life.

If we see healthcare as more than just doing what is necessary to sustain the human race, you need to look beyond the criteria you set out there.

 

[Nuggler]

So, the government of Ont. remains a fukking twit organization. Like the one before it, and the one which will come after.


For too many years Ont. had too much money, a lot of industry, and was the big kid in the pool. Now it's not, but still acts the part. Spending money we don't have on horsesh*t when health and welfare of all kinds fall by the board.


Nuff to make a mare bite its colt.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

I don't know about you, but I know that lots of people see starting a family as one of the most basic purposes of life.

If we see healthcare as more than just doing what is necessary to sustain the human race, you need to look beyond the criteria you set out there.

Lot's of people can fund their own Invitro then.

We need to prioritize what is in the best interest of Ontarion patients before we start venturing down these $50 million roads.

We are a Province short of nurses, doctors, MRI's, so every dime should be considered.

 

[gerryh]

I'm curious, anyone know how many millions are spent on our free for all abortion program?

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

I'm curious, anyone know how many millions are spent on our free for all abortion program?

Nope, but it is another point, but the Holy Grail of Liberals, so asking is pointless.

 

[gerryh]

Here's one I found

How much do abortions cost Ontarians? The last accurate available data was done by Project for an Ontario Women’s Health Evidence-Based Report (POWER), which,using OHIP billing records and several databases, concluded that 51,000 abortions were performed in 2007 in Ontario alone. Given that an abortion procedure costs on average around $1,000, taxpayers currently spend approximately $51 million annually to cover this medically unnecessary procedure.

LifeSiteNews Mobile | Ontario cuts funding for cataract surgery, but pays $51 million a year for abortion

 

[BornRuff]

Lot's of people can fund their own Invitro then.

We need to prioritize what is in the best interest of Ontarion patients before we start venturing down these $50 million roads.

We are a Province short of nurses, doctors, MRI's, so every dime should be considered.

You are not really giving any reason as to why this is any less deserving of being funded than the 10's of thousands of other things that our health insurance plan covers.

Lots of people cannot afford to pay for IVF treatments because they are quite expensive.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

You are not really giving any reason as to why this is any less deserving of being funded than the 10's of thousands of other things that our health insurance plan covers.

Lots of people cannot afford to pay for IVF treatments because they are quite expensive.

That is completely my point, which you are obviously missing.
IVF is just the tip of the Iceburg.

We need to start prioritizing.

 

[BornRuff]

Here's one I found

How much do abortions cost Ontarians? The last accurate available data was done by Project for an Ontario Women’s Health Evidence-Based Report (POWER), which,using OHIP billing records and several databases, concluded that 51,000 abortions were performed in 2007 in Ontario alone. Given that an abortion procedure costs on average around $1,000, taxpayers currently spend approximately $51 million annually to cover this medically unnecessary procedure.

LifeSiteNews Mobile | Ontario cuts funding for cataract surgery, but pays $51 million a year for abortion

Lets be perfectly blunt about this one. Clearly abortions don't cost the healthcare system money.

$1000 is a fraction of the cost of prenatal care and delivering a baby. When you add in potential complications the cost of that pregnancy can really skyrocket. Then you have to consider all the costs on other government services from people having babies that they are not ready for or cannot handle.

I am obviously not promoting abortion as a method of keeping costs down, but don't pretend that the people getting abortions are straining the healthcare system in any way.

That is completely my point, which you are obviously missing.
IVF is just the tip of the Iceburg.

We need to start prioritizing.

That isn't really a point. You still have not actually given any reason for why one thing should be covered and another thing shouldn't. You keep referring to IVF as something that is frivolous, but just saying it over and over again doesn't make it true.

If you are just going to keep naming things that you think are more dyer, I am just going to trump you and say that all the money should be sent to feed starving kids in Africa.

That simply isn't a logical way to decide what should be funded. Healthcare is about more than just keeping people breathing.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

That isn't really a point. You still have not actually given any reason for why one thing should be covered and another thing shouldn't.

If you are just going to keep naming things that you think are more dyer, I am just going to trump you and say that all the money should be sent to feed starving kids in Africa.

That simply isn't a logical way to decide what should be funded. Healthcare is about more than just keeping people breathing.

Good grief Bornruff you are absolutely right. Why did I bother?

 

[PoliticalNick]

Here's one I found

How much do abortions cost Ontarians? The last accurate available data was done by Project for an Ontario Women’s Health Evidence-Based Report (POWER), which,using OHIP billing records and several databases, concluded that 51,000 abortions were performed in 2007 in Ontario alone. Given that an abortion procedure costs on average around $1,000, taxpayers currently spend approximately $51 million annually to cover this medically unnecessary procedure.

LifeSiteNews Mobile | Ontario cuts funding for cataract surgery, but pays $51 million a year for abortion

How do you know how many were not medically necessary or on the advice of a doctor for whatever reason. Just because you would rather watch your wife or daughter die than have a termination doesn't mean some of those 51,000 weren't a medical necessity.

 

[Goober]

Well, not necessarily. The entire reason this program is being proposed is because it doesn't always come naturally.

I kind of question the idea of referring to this as vote buying. How big could the voter base interested in this really be?

Do some research on this. A large, vocal and organized groups of parents. They have been fighting for this for years.
Next Breast cancer- Prostate cancer- Over the past decade - Which one kills more- which one receives more funding.Take a wild guess.

High cost drugs- These when you have a large group fighting for funding, the louder they are the better the chance of Govt funding.

Madi Vanstone, 12, asks Ontario to fund pricey drug - Toronto - CBC News

Canada needs a national strategy on rare diseases | Toronto Star