only if your christian,virgin,raped & sodomized, maybe!

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
138
63
California
Re: only if your christian,virgin,raped & sodomized, may

Tracy

Until society starts looking at a pregnant woman as a potential mother who needs assistance for at least a year while she carries a baby to a healthy birth and placement, we will continue the practice of disallowing those new lives to enter our world.

For whatever reason, we should be honoring all women who choose to carry a child - they should not lose their place in the working world if they have a job, they should be cared for in a place which gives them nurturing in addition to the health care for physical well-being. I cannot understand why people go to other countries to adopt children (which is a good thing)...when there are so many children here available for adoption....but the law makes it so difficult and expensive, when I think it should be
widely practiced ensuring the birthmother of a good family for her newborn. Alternatively if she decides to keep her child, every effort should be made to ensure her ability to do so in a proud and positive way.

There are many answers and I get sick of all of the reasons why things are the way they are.... abortion will always be with us and there will always be those hooked into repeat abortions too....but we as a society haven't progressed from the dark ages as it concerns babies out of wedlock to use an old fashioned term.

All the finger pointing and religious dogma isn't going to change anything. Even if a girl presents a legal contract to her date who wants to have sex, getting him to sign on for future obligation if a child is created from that sex....won't stop abortions....because we are such gifted creatures utilizing so little of our common sense and brains instead of insisting on solutions.

What about centers located in populated areas where women can work in daycare while awaiting the birth of their own child, learning how to care for infants and toddlers, and after the birth continue working there until they are ready for re-entrance into the world and have the means to support their child, or have given the child into adoption. These centers could be ongoing as daycare and right up until school placement would offer a secure and familiar place for both mothers and children. I'm talking also about 24/7 care. Staff who actually live there if they choose while they wait for birth of their own.

No doubt there a million reasons why this won't work either, but I often sit and dream about finding a place of "nesting" for women who are expecting - a place where their needs can be met, by friendships, by knowledgeable mothers who can teach child care, by counselors for their feelings of being lost and alone, a place to meet prospective parents if necessary - all kinds of things which can be taking place before the birth. Positive preparation.

Birth should never be a guilt issue - nor an unhappy issue - and we as a society make it so and then demand women do not abort.

How screwed up is that!!!
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
RE: only if your christia

I,ll work with you for all these things if you want, but you do realize your asking for socialist programs and socialist ideaology because what you ask for has no private sector interest. Everything you mention above is valid for humans but invalid for the private sector who would never care for children and mothers without inflated profit margins, and even if you could convince them to start these programes every year the service would get worse as they scraped and squeezed more and more profit.There is not a million reasons why these programes would not work there is only one, greed.
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
138
63
California
Re: only if your christian,virgin,raped & sodomized, may

Beav

No I am not asking for government organization at all.

Men and women supporting women can do this privately. It could be a great charity - satisfying the needs of many who feel abortion is the only choice....at the present time.

The last group I would invite to work this one out would be the government who would pass so many laws the kids would be teens before their moms would be allowed into the program.
 

Jo Canadian

Council Member
Mar 15, 2005
2,488
1
38
PEI...for now
Re: only if your christian,virgin,raped & sodomized, may



 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
3,500
48
48
California
RE: only if your christian,virgin,raped & sodomized, may

I could not agree with you more WC. Seriously!

I think it's sad that adoption is seen as such a negative thing today. I'm adopted and so greatful for it, but many young mothers are told they can't just "give their baby away". So they are really forced to raise it, and many of them just aren't equipped to do that well (not all of them though, I have seen some amazing teen moms step up to the plate). There aren't that many healthy babies available for adoption and those that do adopt in the US have to worry about the birth mother changing her mind. I've looked after several sick babies that needed adoptive parents, and as much as I love looking after those babies at work, I can't imagine bringing one home and raising it so I can't blame other people for not doing it either.

We don't really honor motherhood or fatherhood in our society. I think this is one of the downsides of the fact that independence is emphasized over community. We don't even provide good physical support for new parents. Moms get 6 weeks off in some places and that's it. That's such a short time to even be physically ready to go back to work. We can see Calvin Klein billboards that border on pornography without batting an eye, but shun a woman if she wants to breastfeed in public.

If we aren't going to help new parents or give real sexual education and materials to prevent unwanted pregnancies, then I don't think we can complain about abortion.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Re: only if your christian,virgin,raped & sodomized, may

Wednesday's Child said:
Beav

No I am not asking for government organization at all.

Men and women supporting women can do this privately. It could be a great charity - satisfying the needs of many who feel abortion is the only choice....at the present time.

The last group I would invite to work this one out would be the government who would pass so many laws the kids would be teens before their moms would be allowed into the program.

But that,s what scocialism is, it is people working with and for people it is a scocial function, it is not necessaryily a government function, however if governments are by the people for the people, as soon as you carry your daycare work beyond the confines of your own home and enlist the free volunteer help of others it is scocialism. Don,t remain hungup on a word that you,ve grown to hate for no good reason other than the prevailing propaganda of the past century. Charitys are scocial institutions, the giving and care of each other without the dirt of excess profit.
And if there were no law there would be chaos and anarchy. The people who complain most vociferously about regulation and law are those who most often would seek unfair advantage over others by perversion of or circumvention of law.
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
138
63
California
Re: only if your christian,virgin,raped & sodomized, may

DarkBeaver

In the U.S. it is also non-socialist because there are huge tax breaks for those who set up charitable foundations and give to certain groups. Most entertainers and celebrities have foundations set up to protect them from the tax laws of this country.

Jesse Jackson, and his other friends have all set up religious tax break foundations to keep themselves out of the long arm of the tax man. This allows them to raise billions...and distribute at will with a minimum given if necessary to continue their "charitable" status.

Presidential Libraries are money makers as well- and many politicians join in on the foundation stuff after they are out of office - donating to "historical record" and having special groups who receive monies or scholarships to continue the status.

A mother's "nest" for abortions, adoptions, child care and counseling, after care, whatever a young girl wants....even if she wants training and to continue within the charity as an employee would be a slam dunk with so many wealthy celebrities in this country....it just doesn't count as your "socialist" ideology.

And people don't always "work" for these groups on a volunteer basis (there are those who volunteer too) but there is a paid staff taking care of the day to day stuff. In the case of the "nest" it would be residential 24/7 kind of care.

It's a game played with the tax man. Celebrities doing the "feel good" thing and having parties as "fund raisers" - it is a whole way of life for them. Do you really think they are givers? Do you want to buy a bridge?

Maybe Toro will come by some day and correct me because I know very little about these things - being a worker and having not much in the way of charitable donations to give.
 

JoeyB

Electoral Member
Feb 2, 2006
253
0
16
Australia
RE: only if your christia

I guess there is an ignorance far greater than mine out there... my neighbour's father (Prof gyneacology & obstetrics ) educated us about sex when we were about hmm lets see... when we were about err 6, so reading med textbooks was not as freaky as it sounds when we were growing up. Right to choose is imho a choice purely reserved for the woman (carrying or not) regardless of the 'law'

People have to understand that their own religious/moral convictions do not coincide with, and can not be enforced on others in a democratic society, END OF STORY.

regardless of my religious beliefs and my moral convictions (not going to bore you with personal issues) I still agree that it is a womans' right to choose.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
Re: RE: only if your christia

JoeyB said:
People have to understand that their own religious/moral convictions do not coincide with, and can not be enforced on others in a democratic society, END OF STORY.

I will keep that in mind come tax time....it's not that I mind paying some taxes, it's just I'm against paying as much as I do, and since these taxes go to support the morality programs my government thinks are appropriate, and since "People have to understand that their own religious/moral convictions do not coincide with, and can not be enforced on others in a democratic society, END OF STORY" then I will just cut them a cheque for what I think it fair and be done with it.....I do earn that money with my own mind and body....and no women is going to tell me what to do with my body.


"Taxes are like abortion, and not just because both are grotesque procedures supported by Democrats. You're for them or against them. Taxes go up or down; government raises taxes or lowers them. But Democrats will not let the words "abortion" or "tax hikes" pass their lips. Which one was an "investment in our future" and which one is a "choice"? Was that killing babies or taking our money? " -- Ann Coulter
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
RE: only if your christian,virgin,raped & sodomized, may

Wednesday's Child, your apparent seizure at the word "socialism" intrigues me; is there something wrong with that particular political philosophy? Keep in mind of course that I believe darkbeaver is making reference to socialism without the negative baggage that has been attached to it by the media (particularly that, in my opinion, of the United States of America).

Socialism is where people help each other out as a society rather than as individuals.

It's a valiant idea, in my opinion.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
RE: only if your christian,virgin,raped & sodomized, may

Well if your going to apply such a simplistic value to it, it is no wonder some people think it is a valiant idea.

Socialism is the usurp of freedom and private property. It is the antithesis of individualism and human nature....it is a machine.

There is a huge difference between people helping people and socialism.

The media didn't give socialism its baggage; they just pointed it out the baggage socialism carries.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
Re: RE: only if your christian,virgin,raped & sodomized,

FiveParadox said:
Socialism is where people help each other out as a society rather than as individuals.

It's a valiant idea, in my opinion.

Successful examples of Socialism?
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
3,500
48
48
California
Re: RE: only if your christia

JoeyB said:
I guess there is an ignorance far greater than mine out there... my neighbour's father (Prof gyneacology & obstetrics ) educated us about sex when we were about hmm lets see... when we were about err 6, so reading med textbooks was not as freaky as it sounds when we were growing up. Right to choose is imho a choice purely reserved for the woman (carrying or not) regardless of the 'law'

People have to understand that their own religious/moral convictions do not coincide with, and can not be enforced on others in a democratic society, END OF STORY.

regardless of my religious beliefs and my moral convictions (not going to bore you with personal issues) I still agree that it is a womans' right to choose.

In my admittedly limited experience, I think Australians have a different attitude towards sex. All the Aussies I know were definitely better educated and more open about sexuality than most Canadians and Americans. I am still surprised at the number of people who think sexual education will result in rampant promiscuity or homosexuality....
 

JoeyB

Electoral Member
Feb 2, 2006
253
0
16
Australia
Re: RE: only if your christia

tracy said:
In my admittedly limited experience, I think Australians have a different attitude towards sex. All the Aussies I know were definitely better educated and more open about sexuality than most Canadians and Americans. I am still surprised at the number of people who think sexual education will result in rampant promiscuity or homosexuality....

I am not sure about the majority of Australians having a better understanding of, or better sex ed. / sexual health issues. Most Aussies would probably say we were ill informed, and required remedial education in regards to both issues. It's hard for me to say, because I was lucky to have access to an excellent factual reference from a very young age. I understood more about girls than I did about myself when I was 10. I am not sure much has changed... heheh
In regards to promiscuity and openness, well I think there are pockets of promiscuous people the world over, but Australia isn't a hot-spot. Many would agree 'on the whole' we are a fairly conservative bunch- certainly the national birth rates would seem to indicate! - that doesn't say a lot for the shagging rate however, which I would say is markedly higher.

There has been a serious parliamentary debate recently over the RU-486 abortion pill, so the issue is very close to most of the populations minds, and with all drug-life-sex related issues, there are many who are only too willing to impose their beliefs on others... which brought me to this debate in the first instance.

I think it's not a very wise thing to disregard the legitimate needs of women to have the choice to terminate. Although my Catholic upbringing shuns this ideology, I have seen first hand the trauma associated with not terminating, and also the results of termination. even for a man like myself, it is still the most gut-wrenching experience I have had, moreso than that of losing loved ones.
Regardless of my knowledge of the stress and trauma associated with terminations and to a lesser extent the 'issue' of right to terminate, I still believe a woman has the right to choose, although I would hope she seeks a professional medical opinion before making the decision, and also does not choose to terminate purely because it may affect her 'lifestyle'.

I think the decision to take oral /IV /physical contraception is a more immediate solution to those who would prefer to remain without child. However, 'Mistakes' happen and my moral convictions in this area would say 'no' to termination. I believe there are lessons to be learned, and those who want to root around and take the gamble, deserve whats coming to them (and should bear the consequences).
Sensibility and contraception should be a necessary education to all adolescent women, and many mature ones! If men are being urged to keep it 'bagged and tagged' and the lesson should be shared equally.

Sex is a shared responsibility. I think people forget that sometimes, in the heat of the moment.
 

Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
2,976
7
38
Re: only if your christian,virgin,raped & sodomized, may

Another good post Jo. Sassy shaking her head, men deciding what women can do with their bodies, what year is this? Gents watch the weather channel and when hell freezes over that will be the day you make a decision about my body.