Now we have a white poppy.

[CDNBear]

Correct Bear, do you see those of us who are not peaceniks spoiling something that is important to them, NO. I don't go to peace rallies and heckle peaceniks I respect their right to speak out on what ever issue that is important to them. This isn't an issue it's part of our customs and traditions in Canada, why do the peaceniks feel the need to insult us on this day? Because you are insulting me and I'm tired of this extreme left leaning forum, the peaceniks have the advantage here but those of us whom oppose your views are scorned. Without a mix of people posting on this forum the peaceniks will be talking to themselves.

I wonder if the Gay community would be upset if I dawned a mulicoloured ribbon during Gay Pride, and started my own parade for married hetro's?

i wonder if the peace protesters would mind if I dawned a camo coloured ribbon, and started a parade to promote war on Sept. 21st?

 

[the caracal kid]

bear,

don't those types of counter-message movements occur? I have heard of a few.

I am just trying to understand how people that fought for peace are so upset about this.

 

[CDNBear]

bear,

don't those types of counter-message movements occur? I have heard of a few.

I am just trying to understand how people that fought for peace are so upset about this.

caracal, it is because it is seen as an infringment on both legal and moral grounds. It has been their day forever. Why should we accept this disrespect? Because that is exactly what it is.

For me personnaly, it is the day I take aside to sit and ponder, remember my friends that did not come back from Somolia. My Great Uncle that was shot down in Burma and "J" gutted by a Japanese Soldier, and left to die(he didn't though. He came home and lived a full life, but he's gone now, I named my oldest after him), remember men I don't or never knew, just because they deserve it, they deserve our respect. I remember my Grand Father, a coreman in WWII(LWF) in both the European and Pacific theaters, a man that dedicated his life to preserving others. He saw the aftermath of the Concentration Camps, then was shipped off to the Pacific to work on a hospital ship, looking after the POW's from the Japanese camps. He never told me the horrors he saw, but that man could tell you just by looking at someone if they were Japanese, Korean, Chinese. He held a, for lack of a better term, hate for the Japanese, because of what they did to the men they captured.

So I have people, with faces that I remember, but no less importantly, there are those people who's faces I've never seen, but I love them and cherish their memory along with my own.

I remeber those that have no family left to remember them, I remember those that fell in VietNam, thinking their country hated them, I remember those that were never found. I remember because it is my duty, no it is my honour, I may not have ever known them, but they are my heros. They are the reason I am. They are the ones that paid in blood the price some today take for granted.

 

[Tonington]

It's not that the veterans are opposed to peace or any of us for that matter. I haven't met any veterans who rejoice over tales of killing Germans or Japanese people. They found it necessary to go to war so that there could be peace. Hijacking the attention away from the sentiment of that sacrifice is insulting, it trivializes that sacrifice that they made.

 

[the caracal kid]

thank you for your thoughts, bear.

tonington, the key word in your response I would like to address is "sentiment". Sentimentality is not genuine. Do we want honest understanding and respect for the past, or a tear-jerker? I don't think we can have the former without addressing the entire picture. Is it really trivialized? The fact that so many feel the need for a day to remember that which we feel the effects of 365 days a year speaks to the true trivialization of the past (of many keystone events, not just wars of the past 100 years). Such is the way with people though, and in that regard I can truly see why vets feel the need to fight so hard to be recognized (everybody wants recognition for what they view as their sacrifices).

This is a difficult topic because I can understand and see validity in the arguments presented on both sides.

 

[CDNBear]

I should add or correct, I think of them often through out the year. Just this day is theirs, for the memory to be honoured enmass as it were.

It's hard to forget them, their pictures are on my walls, my desk, my dresser etc. Just the way it should be.

 

[Tonington]

Sentiment totally is genuine and fits there. A sentiment is a mixture of feeling and thought, like patriotism, or loyalty. I too can see the points from both sides, I just feel that in this case it seems rather disrespectful.

 

[CDNBear]

Our Poppies are red
they should not be white.

It's about the fallen
not about the fight.

Cry all you want
and say what you might.

Their blood on the ground
gave you that right.

My Poppy is red
So why is yours white?

I really have to hire someone next week, I'm spending to much time under my helmet.

 

[CDNBear]

I would like to respectfully ask, if we could end the debate until after tomorrow. Just out of respect for those of us that feel very passionate about this, and of course the Vetrans. It is their day, and their day alone.

 

[Sassylassie]

Sassy nodding her head in respects agrees with you Bear.

 

[Tonington]

Motion seconded by Tonington

 

[Hotshot]

It is very disrespectful, like a peacenik (love the word by the way) storming in on a memorial service for a dead soldier.

Disrespectful??? give me a break. It can be whatever colour we want it to be. I used to wear a black one when I was in university...

 

[selfactivated]

Im prolly the biggest peacenic here and I know the red poppy has a certain meaning on a specific day. I do like the idea of a white poppy on the 25th of december. I do believe it is the international day of ceace fire. Just my 2 cents

 

[the caracal kid]

then, for you bear, we shall have some words of peace:

Peace is not merely a distant goal that we seek, but a means by which we arrive at that goal. Martin Luther King, Jr.

We can bomb the world to pieces,but we can't bomb it into peace. Michael Franti and Spearhead

Only when there are many people who are pools of peace, silence, understanding, will war disappear. Osho

We must not bring one war to an end-- or thirty-- but the idea of war itself. Deepak Chopra


Chapter 30: Not Making War - Lao Tzu from the Tao Te Ching

Those who lead people by following the Tao
don't use weapons to enforce their will.
Using force always leads to unseen troubles.
In the places where armies march,
thorns and briars bloom and grow.
After armies take to war,
bad years must always follow.
The skillful commander
strikes a decisive blow then stops.
When victory is won over the enemy through war
it is not a thing of great pride.
When the battle is over,
arrogance is the new enemy.
War can result when no other alternative is given,
so the one who overcomes an enemy should not dominate them.
The strong always weakened with time.
This is not the way of the Tao.

 

[CDNBear]

In all sarcasm,

I would like to thank those of you that came and read and still continued the debate, after I asked that we hold off untill after today.

It shows us who can not and/or who is just plain rude.


Je me Souviens

 

[selfactivated]

Im sorry I didnt read that part.

 

[Tonington]

My question is, why do they need to use a poppy to represent peace? I thought peace allready had a symbol, the white dove. The poppy is representative of the fallen soldiers.

 

[CDNBear]

My question is, why do they need to use a poppy to represent peace? I thought peace allready had a symbol, the white dove. The poppy is representative of the fallen soldiers.

Excellent point. Lets see shall we, perhaps it is a blatant political movement. It's nearly dead in the UK, so much so that most people in the UK hardly know it existed. So it's use here must be just a political statement.

 

[Curiosity]

Well there is another "white" object which could be waved or carried rather than worn.... a white flag?

 

[CDNBear]

Well there is another "white" object which could be waved or carried rather than worn.... a white flag?

No the Islamic apologists have that one all wrapped up.