Now we have a white poppy.

[Sassylassie]

Sanctus wrote: Frankly, it rather seems to me that if the red poppy supposedly symbolizes the fight vets did to give us freedom, that freedom should also include the right to wear whatever colour poppy one wants to wear at any time of year, November 11th or not.


The "Red Poppy" is a symbol of Rememberance, it is a reminder to Never Forget those who died for this country in times of war including our enemies, it's a symbol or rememberance and respect to those who stayed in Canada and worked in factories and toiled in the fields. November 11 does not glorify war, nor do we revel around the concept of war on November 11. When I attend a memorial service it isn't about rejoicing wars just the opposite. When I look around at the faces of the of the very elderly and the young who have served this Country I feel such a wave of sorrow, pain and horror that it makes my stomack clench and I can't breath when the service is over I realise I've been crying and I never noticed. There is so much sorrow and pain in the faces of those who did as their Country asked, fight for the freedom of others. Rememberance day is a day for all of us to put aside our personal beliefs and join together and remember the suffering of "all" involved in the wars. We don't rejoice on November 11, we mourn.

 

[sanctus]

the service is over I realise I've been crying and I never noticed. There is so much sorrow and pain in the faces of those who did as their Country asked, fight for the freedom of others. Rememberance day is a day for all of us to put aside our personal beliefs and join together and remember the suffering of "all" involved in the wars. We don't rejoice on November 11, we mourn.

I know all that. You must not form the opinion based on my WW2 comments that i am insensitive to the sufferings of those who have fought in wars. I am not. I am concious of the terrible waste war brings, regardless of cause and effect. Some of my most moving Masses have been Nov 11th related.

However, I was only pointing out that I did not see a problem with the wearing of a white poppy. Freedom in this society means all people can choose. That being the case, why would anyone have a problem with someone choosing to wear a white poppy on Nov 11th or any other day? Wearing one does not insult those who wear the red poppy. At least it shouldn't be taken to mean as such. Frankly, with so many real issues facing our country and our world, I often wonder why people in general would focus so much attention on insignificant events such as the colour of someone's poppy. Just my opinion, and one no doubt unpopular.

 

[tamarin]

Anyone who tries to offer me a white poppy will get the full force of my venom. It is an insult to veterans and a bold cheapening of the meaning and importance of the poppy as a symbol to RD. Some Canucks just don't get it. Ignorance, sometimes instead of being ignored, should be trampled on.

 

[sanctus]

Anyone who tries to offer me a white poppy will get the full force of my venom. It is an insult to veterans and a bold cheapening of the meaning and importance of the poppy as a symbol to RD. Some Canucks just don't get it. Ignorance, sometimes instead of being ignored, should be trampled on.

so much for freedom! Wouldn't a simple "no thank you" suffice?

 

[Sassylassie]

It's not freedom about freedom when you steal someone elses Copyright, it's called stealing. The legion owns the rights to the poppy, and I hope they sue this opportunists bum off.

 

[sanctus]

It's not freedom about freedom when you steal someone elses Copyright, it's called stealing. The legion owns the rights to the poppy, and I hope they sue this opportunists bum off.

I could be incorrect, but I do not think the Legion "owns" the symbol of the poppy anymore than one ribbon colour cause has rights over any others.

 

[the caracal kid]

I think December 25th is already taken.... December 26th as well........I would prefer to leave the hollidays as they are thank you...

but juan, think of it as going back to an older tradition!

the fall represented death, rememberance day is close enough to the apex of death to be a death day, as it is now. The solstice represented the end of the dark and the beginning of the longer days, the time of rebirth. So we could have nov 11 the beginning of the rememberance of the past (what is dead) with a celebration of the rebirth (the future), a future of peace on the 25th. Something everybody in modern times could relate to borrowed from the ancient past. Next we can convert easter back to ester!

 

[tamarin]

It's about respect. Respect for the ultimate sacrifice that was made by tens of thousands of young Canadians whose participation in wars has made whatever we have today possible. It's damn little to ask and it's damn cheeky to ignore. Some folks need a rude awakening. I'll do my part!

 

[tracy]

Apparently the white poppy goes back to the 1930s.

 

[CDNBear]

I hate to break this to you but the legion owns the rights to nothing, red, white or black poppies.

I beg to differ, the Poppy image is a registered trade mark of the Royal Canadian Legion, call your local branch and ask them for the registry number. they'll tell ya.

 

[Sassylassie]

You are correct Bear, the Peaceniks have been selling the white poppy for several years and the Legion has tried to solve this without using the courts but that hasn't worked so now they are considering Legal channels, I'd be happy to donate more to aide them in their suit. One bloody day of the year and the Peaceniks have to make a ta do about it. It's very desrepectful to me and those who have fallen but again this group doesn't appear to respect other opinions just their cause.

 

[CDNBear]

interesting, bear.

People are habitual and ritualistic, thus one of the ways to change a culture is to keep the "cerimonies" but change the content to suit your new agenda. I wonder if that is the intent of the "white poppy". Will nov 11 eventually become "world peace day" where we "think of the future" rather than "remember the past"? In the middle of WW1 troops on both sides stopped fighting on Dec 25. Maybe we should use that as a motivator for making Dec 25 "world peace day".

These are our rituals, if we continue to let people erode them, our past becomes irrelavent. My/our past will not secome to that fate, as long as I/we the believers and faithfull hold on to our values and pass them on.

 

[CDNBear]

You are correct Bear, the Peaceniks have been selling the white poppy for several years and the Legion has tried to solve this without using the courts but that hasn't worked so now they are considering Legal channels, I'd be happy to donate more to aide them in their suit. One bloody day of the year and the Peaceniks have to make a ta do about it. It's very desrepectful to me and those who have fallen but again this group doesn't appear to respect other opinions just their cause.

Key word,,,

Disrespectful, period.

 

[Tonington]

It is very disrespectful, like a peacenik (love the word by the way) storming in on a memorial service for a dead soldier.

 

[the caracal kid]

war and peace define each other, should not both be remembered?

do people fight for war, or fight for the end of war?

Now, I can understand the grumpies grumping about "money given to the white poppy doesn't go to the vets".

But what is the bigger picture here?
The people, or the peace?
Both need the stage.

Take peace not for granted.
Take war not as just a part of the past.

We need to remember our own hypocricies, most of all.

 

[CDNBear]

war and peace define each other, should not both be remembered?

do people fight for war, or fight for the end of war?

Now, I can understand the grumpies grumping about "money given to the white poppy doesn't go to the vets".

But what is the bigger picture here?
The people, or the peace?
Both need the stage.

Take peace not for granted.
Take war not as just a part of the past.

We need to remember our own hypocricies, most of all.

The point is caracal, that it is our feelings we wish for all to respect. If all want our respect, should they not resect our wishes as well?

We see it as both a legal and moral infringement.


All we want is the resect everyone else says is their right.

There is already a World Peace day, the 21st of September.

It states quite clearly, that the image of the Poppy, is a registered trademark here.

http://www.on.legion.ca/_shell.asp?page=180001

 

[the caracal kid]

I understand, bear.

First they fought in foreign fields,
then they returned and fought to be remebered.
So why should another group so easily usurp "their day"?

I wonder though,
If Nov 11 is too closely tied to those that fought and died,
What will the day become when there are no more vets alive?

Is it ego driven?
Is it about stroking the pride of those that fought?
Or is it about something more?
I ask this because rememberance day is very nationalistic.
We honour "our dead", rather than remembering all those that suffered and died.
We focus on the people, and the sense of nationalistic "our freedoms",
It is too political for me to swallow.
I respect the individual choices (if they were choices, but that is another topic),
and I feel for the suffering of war (regardless of which side),
and I appreciate the vet's desire for the attrocities of war to not be forgotten.
Somehow it seems no lesson has been learned at all,
when vets and "peaceniks" squabble over whose message should be heard,
when both should be heard, and they should both be on the same side.
The squabbling demeans everything.

 

[Sassylassie]

Correct Bear, do you see those of us who are not peaceniks spoiling something that is important to them, NO. I don't go to peace rallies and heckle peaceniks I respect their right to speak out on what ever issue that is important to them. This isn't an issue it's part of our customs and traditions in Canada, why do the peaceniks feel the need to insult us on this day? Because you are insulting me and I'm tired of this extreme left leaning forum, the peaceniks have the advantage here but those of us whom oppose your views are scorned. Without a mix of people posting on this forum the peaceniks will be talking to themselves.

 

[CDNBear]

Is it ego driven?

No, it is about respect and respect alone.

Is it about stroking the pride of those that fought?

No, Nov. 11th, is only about the fallen. Respect for those still alive is a nice and rather important touch though.

Or is it about something more?

That "more" is simple respect, something sorely lacking these days.

 

[the caracal kid]

sassy,

please explain how things are being spoiled in your opinion?

(note: this is not a left-right debate. Aside from the potential diversion of funds via poppy sales I don't see the issue and am trying to understand "your" position.)