Nigel Farage resigns as Ukip leader
- Thread starter Blackleaf
- Start date
What do you mean by normal? Norway, Switzerland, and Canada, and North Korea are all non-EU countries, but each with a very different relationship towards it.
It's also no coincidence that non-EU states bear the EU are more integrated in it. Norway is a member of the EEA and Switzerland is just slightly less integrated, but they both had to accept the 'four freedoms' (including free movement if people) in exchange for varying degrees of EU market access. EEA countries have full access, Switzerland less.
Canada, a NAFTA signatory across the Atlantic Ocean, opted out of the 'four freedoms' but it's agreement is mostly limited to goods. Canada has little access to the EU's market for services (especially banking and other financial services). Financial services are a major UK export to the EU.
For Canada, a good deal with the EU is not that important due to trans-Atlabtic transportation costs. Sure it's preferable, but not at the expense of NAFTA (for obvious geographical reasons). For the UK right next door, it's much more important.
Of course it could become more important to Canada if Trump wins, scraps NAFTA, and Canada becomes desperate for trade, but that would be extreme circumstances not of our doing. In your case, your cutting yourselves off from the EU.
So again, vaguaries aside, what is your realistic vision if UK-EU trade?
So again, vagaries aside,
Bull****. And wishful thinking on the part of the anti-democrats.
17,410,742 people voted to leave the EU, with a huge amount of them fed up with the elite ignoring them. If they are ignored again with this referendum there'll be serious unrest.
So Blackleaf, do you envision the UK joining the EEU, negotiating something like Switzerland, Canada, or something else?
And when it ces to the pesky details, cricket! Cricket!
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So basically Blackie is all for ignoring established procedures that even lawyers are saying need to be considered, that the UK should take it's ball, go home, and F everyone else they'll do what they want a la colonialism style forgetting that the UK doesn't rule the world anymore and what it says doesn't make the world obey and anyone that disagrees is just a sore loser...
Is that pretty much it?
I have to agree with Machjo... what ARE your views on what Britain does now in regards to trade and it's place in the world?
Is that pretty much it?
I have to agree with Machjo... what ARE your views on what Britain does now in regards to trade and it's place in the world?
The EU has already made it clear that for any deep access to EU markets (Canada's being very shallow, mostly limited to most goods but not all and few services and no banking and financials), it will not compromise on the 'four freedoms' (which includes movement of people). If you want access approaching anywhere what Norway or Switzerland has (and even Switzerland cannot access the single banking and financial services market!), then you can kiss control over migration goodby.
Geographically, unless the Royal Navy can tug your islands closer to Canada, UK business must consider transportation costs. With that in mind, you can sell to Europe far more efficiently than to Canada.
Geographically, unless the Royal Navy can tug your islands closer to Canada, UK business must consider transportation costs. With that in mind, you can sell to Europe far more efficiently than to Canada.
Reality Check: Can UK trigger Article 50 without asking Parliament?
5 July 2016
BBC News
The claim: The next prime minister will not be allowed to invoke Article 50 - the mechanism for leaving the European Union - unless an act of Parliament authorises them to do so.
Reality Check verdict: It may turn out that an act of Parliament is needed before Article 50 may be triggered, but it is difficult to see how Parliament could in practice ignore the result of the referendum.
A group of unnamed business people and academics represented by the law firm Mishcon de Reya has launched a legal challenge to require a future prime minister to get the approval of Parliament before triggering Article 50.
It followed an article along the same lines from the Constitutional Law Association.
Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty is the mechanism by which countries may leave the European Union.
Once the article has been triggered, it sets a two-year time limit for negotiations, which may only be extended if all the member states agree to it.
The lawyers at Mishcon argue that triggering Article 50 would automatically, although not immediately, override the European Communities Act 1972, and that only Parliament can change its own legislation.
But some legal experts argue that the 1972 act would remain part of UK law until it is repealed by Parliament at the end of the process, rather than the beginning.
Cabinet Office minister Oliver Letwin told the Commons foreign affairs committee on Tuesday that the government had been advised that the prime minister could trigger Article 50 without an Act of Parliament, but that Parliament would have to be involved with the changes to the European Communities Act.
It is important to get it right, because Article 50 says a member state may decide to leave only "in accordance with its own constitutional requirements".
Reality Check: Can UK trigger Article 50 without asking Parliament? - BBC News
Prime minister can launch EU exit procedure without parliament - Letwin
Lawyers have advised the British government that the prime minister does not need parliamentary approval to trigger the procedure to leave the European Union, government minister Oliver Letwin said on Tuesday.
Formal talks on Britain's departure cannot start until it triggers Article 50 of the EU's Lisbon Treaty, after which it has two years to negotiate the terms of its exit.
Prime Minister David Cameron, who has announced his resignation but is staying in power until his ruling Conservatives choose a new leader, says he will leave it to his successor to notify Brussels that Britain is exiting the EU.
Some MPs who voted to stay in the European Union are hoping that parliament could delay or even block any attempt to trigger those talks. A London law firm, Mishcon de Reya, has launched a legal case to demand the government obtain parliament's approval. But EU leaders have called on Britain to invoke article 50 quickly to reduce uncertainty.
Letwin, put in charge of a special unit to lay out the options for Cameron's eventual successor on the EU, told lawmakers that while he knew there were conflicting opinions over who would or could trigger Article 50, the government had been advised that the decision lay with the prime minister.
"I am advised by the government lawyers that it is a (royal) prerogative power," he told a committee of parliamentarians, adding that he was not a lawyer or "offering any opinion".
He said the issue would be decided in court in response to the Mishcon de Reya case.
Letwin also said the question of parliamentary approval was "entirely academic" as both the lower chamber, the House of Commons, and the upper chamber, the House of Lords, would have to approve repealing the European Communities Act, under which Britain joined the bloc in 1972. He did not make clear when this would take place in the exit process.
Prime minister can launch EU exit procedure without parliament - Letwin | Reuters
Reality Check: Can UK trigger Article 50 without asking Parliament?
5 July 2016
BBC News
The claim: The next prime minister will not be allowed to invoke Article 50 - the mechanism for leaving the European Union - unless an act of Parliament authorises them to do so.
Reality Check verdict: It may turn out that an act of Parliament is needed before Article 50 may be triggered, but it is difficult to see how Parliament could in practice ignore the result of the referendum.
A group of unnamed business people and academics represented by the law firm Mishcon de Reya has launched a legal challenge to require a future prime minister to get the approval of Parliament before triggering Article 50.
It followed an article along the same lines from the Constitutional Law Association.
Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty is the mechanism by which countries may leave the European Union.
Once the article has been triggered, it sets a two-year time limit for negotiations, which may only be extended if all the member states agree to it.
The lawyers at Mishcon argue that triggering Article 50 would automatically, although not immediately, override the European Communities Act 1972, and that only Parliament can change its own legislation.
But some legal experts argue that the 1972 act would remain part of UK law until it is repealed by Parliament at the end of the process, rather than the beginning.
Cabinet Office minister Oliver Letwin told the Commons foreign affairs committee on Tuesday that the government had been advised that the prime minister could trigger Article 50 without an Act of Parliament, but that Parliament would have to be involved with the changes to the European Communities Act.
It is important to get it right, because Article 50 says a member state may decide to leave only "in accordance with its own constitutional requirements".
Reality Check: Can UK trigger Article 50 without asking Parliament? - BBC News
Prime minister can launch EU exit procedure without parliament - Letwin
Lawyers have advised the British government that the prime minister does not need parliamentary approval to trigger the procedure to leave the European Union, government minister Oliver Letwin said on Tuesday.
Formal talks on Britain's departure cannot start until it triggers Article 50 of the EU's Lisbon Treaty, after which it has two years to negotiate the terms of its exit.
Prime Minister David Cameron, who has announced his resignation but is staying in power until his ruling Conservatives choose a new leader, says he will leave it to his successor to notify Brussels that Britain is exiting the EU.
Some MPs who voted to stay in the European Union are hoping that parliament could delay or even block any attempt to trigger those talks. A London law firm, Mishcon de Reya, has launched a legal case to demand the government obtain parliament's approval. But EU leaders have called on Britain to invoke article 50 quickly to reduce uncertainty.
Letwin, put in charge of a special unit to lay out the options for Cameron's eventual successor on the EU, told lawmakers that while he knew there were conflicting opinions over who would or could trigger Article 50, the government had been advised that the decision lay with the prime minister.
"I am advised by the government lawyers that it is a (royal) prerogative power," he told a committee of parliamentarians, adding that he was not a lawyer or "offering any opinion".
He said the issue would be decided in court in response to the Mishcon de Reya case.
Letwin also said the question of parliamentary approval was "entirely academic" as both the lower chamber, the House of Commons, and the upper chamber, the House of Lords, would have to approve repealing the European Communities Act, under which Britain joined the bloc in 1972. He did not make clear when this would take place in the exit process.
Prime minister can launch EU exit procedure without parliament - Letwin | Reuters
So...
They don't know yet what to do. They can't ignore the vote but having approval from the governing bodies to exit still might be 'a thing'.
IMO they should have sorted this all out before the vote. Cameron was a jackass for assuming people would want to stay and not having the forethought to get things prepared just in case it went the wrong way in his view.
Can't say Mr. Cameron don't know when to reach between his legs.*
* That's where the "eject" handle is on many fighter jets.
* That's where the "eject" handle is on many fighter jets.
The Prime Minister - most likely Theresa May or Andrea Leadsom - will NOT need parliamentary approval to activate Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, as it will be a royal prerogative.
Leadsom, who finished second behind May in the first round of voting in the Tory leadership contest yesterday, has said if she becomes Tory leader and Prime Minister on 9th September then she will likely activate Article 50 in September. Once triggered there is no going back. A two-year clock will start to countdown during which time government officials will negotiate Britain's exit. It might not take two years to get out - it may only take six months, for example - but it will definitely be within the two years that Brexit occurs unless the EU gives special permission to the UK to extend that two-year deadline, but that'll be unlikely.
Government lawyers have stated that activating Article 50 does not need parliamentary approval as it can be invoked under royal prerogative.
You *honestly* think it'll take as little as six months??
IMO if it *does* for some reason, I would really, really start to question the team that's negotiating with the EU and be highly suspicious.
As for the Parliamentary approval - from the two stories you posted, it said that it's not clear, that the sides are divided and in the end it won't matter as it'd be stupid to go against the 'will of the people'. Of course the Leave side would hate that an approval might be needed, as from what I've read, most of the members are against Brexit.
In the end, Britain is in a serious clusterphuk over what happened still.
Who knows how long it will take? It may not take six months but it may do. And it won't take longer than two years.
It is clear. You don't need parliamentary approval to activate Article 50 as it can be invoked by royal prerogative. Government lawyers have advised the government on this.
Most of the current MPs won't be MPs for much longer if they somehow blocked Brexit. The electorate would destroy them in the next election.
How? Brexit is the best thing to have happened to Britain since 1945.