NDP Policies

Calberty

Electoral Member
Dec 7, 2005
277
0
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Re: RE: NDP Policies

Roy said:
same here i would vote Bloc or even NDP before i vote liberal ...no joke. However in my riding it is almost a sureshot conservative victory but I think I will still get out and vote just to make the point that liberals are not welcome here

So true. The Federal Liberal Party is so despised among so many Albertans. The Liberals make my alberta skin crawl.

I just finished reading Peter C. Newman's book: "The Secret Mulroney Tapes' and his assessment of Trudeau's attitude towards the West just confirms how Trudeau viewed Alberta and BC as irrelevent sideshows in Confederation. And those 'sideshows' are what's going to eventually sink any deals that Ottawa makes with Quebec to keep the province in Canada after a 'yes' vote in a referendum.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
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Saint John, N.B.
Reverend Blair said:
Harper's stance on DART is another complete flip-flop by the way. A few weeks ago Conservative MPs were ridiculing it in the House of Commons as nothing more than a PR device.

The NDP policy (so far) is here. A major policy statement has not yet been released. They would put money into peacekeeping, pay our soldiers enough that they wouldn't have to depend on foodbanks, place a moratorium on our invlovement in Afghanistan until the situation there can be examined, put money into search and rescue helicopters etc.

This has all been on the news and discussed in the House of Commons, Colpy.

DART was a PR exercise, when it took weeks and Russian heavy lift aircraft to move it. That is what Harper wants to change.

I read the NDP section you listed (thanks), and I saw one positive thing: increases in pay for soldiers.

Actually, I might make that two things: I would like to see Canada more involved in peacekeeping.

I saw nothing about increasing our ability to fight, which is currently sadly lacking.

I think our mission in Afghanistan is honourable, necessary, and needs to be continued. To abandon it now would be to abandon the Afghan people. To be fair, I know the NDP will examine the situation, not necessarily end our involvement.......BUT, once the bullets start to fly, I think the NDP will be out of there like a scared rabbit.

The site mentions missile defense and calls it "expensive", which I find somewhat misleading. Expensive for who? The Americans, who did not expect us to invest a thin dime. AND we would have benefited from high-tech research and development contracts.

The rejection of missile defense was completely dumbass on a number of levels.

But, I digress.

I will be interested to see a release of the NDP's military platform in it totality.....or lack thereof.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
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Winnipeg
DART was a PR exercise, when it took weeks and Russian heavy lift aircraft to move it. That is what Harper wants to change.

Got your talking points, did ya?

Your point about DART doesn't exactly ring true though, does it? Harper's rhetoric is all for increasing our involvement in US foreign adventurism and has been throughout his career. His sudden support of the DART, and I really wnat to know what he's doubling in size or if he even understands how the DART is composed, is a nod to the fact that Canadians support peacekeeping and aid missions but do not support being the USA's lap dog.

I saw nothing about increasing our ability to fight, which is currently sadly lacking.

That would go along with the peacekeeping. It does not go along with kneeling in front of George Bush though, which is what you are really complaining about.

I think our mission in Afghanistan is honourable, necessary, and needs to be continued. To abandon it now would be to abandon the Afghan people. To be fair, I know the NDP will examine the situation, not necessarily end our involvement.......BUT, once the bullets start to fly, I think the NDP will be out of there like a scared rabbit.

We are cooperating with a nation (the USA) that is torturing prisoners. We are helping to prop up a puppet government. We are cooperating with warlords. While we are doing that, we are freeing up American troops for an illegal war and occupation and making it possible for them to expand that war to bomb civilians in other countries.

I'm all for helping the people of Afghanistan, as is the rest of the NDP. What is not supported is aiding in a war of imperialism by the world's largest rogue state.

The site mentions missile defense and calls it "expensive", which I find somewhat misleading. Expensive for who? The Americans, who did not expect us to invest a thin dime. AND we would have benefited from high-tech research and development contracts.

Expensive for the entire world. Expensive for Canada's reputation on the world stage. Expensive for the future costs. Expensive for all those who will suffer when the US puts weapons in space. Expensive for the balance that has kept us from blowing the planet back to the stone age. Expensive for the cause of disarmament.



The rejection of missile defense was completely dumbass on a number of levels.

No, the consideration of a plan that won't work, will lead to another arms race, has an end goal (according to the Bush White House) of putting weapons in space, and has made the world a more dangerous place would be dumbass.

Tell Harper to keep pushing it though...the majority of Canadians do not support it.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
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Saint John, N.B.
Got your talking points, did ya?

As you know, there are a bunch of ways I disagree with CPC policy. I have yet to see you display any tendency toward thought independent from that dictated by the NDP playbook. I would be a little more cautious, were I you, in dispensing accusations about receiving "talking points". Those who live in glass houses......

We are cooperating with a nation (the USA) that is torturing prisoners. We are helping to prop up a puppet government. We are cooperating with warlords. While we are doing that, we are freeing up American troops for an illegal war and occupation and making it possible for them to expand that war to bomb civilians in other countries.

I'm all for helping the people of Afghanistan, as is the rest of the NDP. What is not supported is aiding in a war of imperialism by the world's largest rogue state.

Well, I'm not happy about some of the revelations of Mr. Bush's actions lately either. He needs to close down his secret prisons, and he needs to end domestic wiretapping.

As for the rest, he is well on his way to creating a middle-eastern Arab democracy......a minor miracle. Kudos to him for that.

As for Afghanistan itself, without combat troops there to FIGHT, the Taliban takes over again, the terrorist camps are rebuilt, and the attacks on the west increase. How stupid would that be?

You know, I could stand an NDP government.....were it not for their ivory tower, head-up-their-own-arse view of the world. The Yanks, for all their faults and occassional arrogance, are our friends and allies. As Churchill said "You can depend on the Americans to do the right thing......after they've tried everything else"

The largest rogue state on earth is China.

The most dangerous rogue state on earth is Iran.

Expensive for Canada's reputation on the world stage
.

Ah, most of the west is on board with the USA on this issue.

Expensive for the future costs
.

It wouldn't cost us a dime.

Expensive for all those who will suffer when the US puts weapons in space. Expensive for the balance that has kept us from blowing the planet back to the stone age. Expensive for the cause of disarmament.

What would be expensive is if the Chinese madmen get into space first. The balance will tip, it always does. Let's make it tip in our direction. The cause of disarmanent is only aided by hard-eyed challenge, as Ronnie Reagan proved with the Russians.

No, the consideration of a plan that won't work, will lead to another arms race, has an end goal (according to the Bush White House) of putting weapons in space, and has made the world a more dangerous place would be dumbass.

The arms race is already on with the Chinese, weapons will go into space anyway, it is only a matter of who gets there first and best.
Ever read any history?
 

Calberty

Electoral Member
Dec 7, 2005
277
0
16
The Reverend is an NDP ideologue. It's a cult with a mantra of cult-froth spewed out.

I actually voted NDP when I was younger. Then it dawned on me one day that the party became more important than the ideas. I've voted for various parties in my life and always vote with the idea that parties exist to express the views of the people and not the other way around. The NDP has lost this kernel of truth and now 'preaches' to what they see as the ignorant masses... almost with a religious sense of entitlement.

I'll be voting Green. i'm quite willing to admit that a lot of what the Green says is 'iffy' as is 'iffy' what all the parties say. The Reverend treats Layton as a 'prophet' that is somehow devinely inspired by a secret book. I see the leader of the Greens scrambling to get attention and, like all the leaders, shifting with the wind. This is politics and they all want to be elected. Therefore I return to one or two things that are important to me and let the ideologues fill themselves with the Holy Spirit of their parties and play their political games.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
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Winnipeg
Well, I'm not happy about some of the revelations of Mr. Bush's actions lately either. He needs to close down his secret prisons, and he needs to end domestic wiretapping.

The US military has beaten quite few people to death in Afghanistan. In one case they knew he innocent, but thought it was funny the way the guy yelled when they hit him. Canadians are turning prisoners over to these bastards?

You can try to justify it however you want, Colpy, but in the end there is no justification for being complicit in war crimes.

As for the rest, he is well on his way to creating a middle-eastern Arab democracy......a minor miracle. Kudos to him for that.

Where?

As for Afghanistan itself, without combat troops there to FIGHT, the Taliban takes over again, the terrorist camps are rebuilt, and the attacks on the west increase. How stupid would that be?

And helping to commit war crimes weakens the Taliban how, exactly? How does letting warlords run most of the country help? How does killing innocent people help? How does using depleted uranium help? How does shooting up wedding parties help? how does locking people up in a shipping container and letting them die from thirst help?

As long as Afghanistan is under the direction of vicious criminals that do and tolerate those things we shouldn't be involved.

The largest rogue state on earth is China.

The most dangerous rogue state on earth is Iran.

The largest and most dangerous rogue state on the planet is the USA. If you love them so much, suggest you pack up your stuff and head down there.

Ah, most of the west is on board with the USA on this issue.

Most of the west has not taken the stance we have for disarmament and against the weaponization of space.

It wouldn't cost us a dime.

Yes it would. It wouldn't cost anything right away, but the eventual involvement of the Canadian military and the eventual need for installations on Canadian soil are a clear part of the plan.

What would be expensive is if the Chinese madmen get into space first. The balance will tip, it always does. Let's make it tip in our direction. The cause of disarmanent is only aided by hard-eyed challenge, as Ronnie Reagan proved with the Russians.

Droolin' Ronnie Rayguns never did anything to force the Russians to disarm. The CIA was saying they were collapsing way back in the 1970's. All Reagan did was to be elected at the right time.

The Chinese were not interested in putting weapons in space until the US decided to. Fools who support the Bushites on the weaponisation of space caused a new arms race.

The arms race is already on with the Chinese, weapons will go into space anyway, it is only a matter of who gets there first and best.
Ever read any history?

A lot more than you, judging by the ridiculous claims you've made.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
Jack Layton's speech on Healthcare at Edmonton, AB


Thu 22 Dec 2005

Thank you for coming out. It’s great to be in the beautiful city of Edmonton

I want to talk first about the future of Canada.

There are those who want the election to be about who can do the most political posturing about the place of Quebec in confederation. The revisiting of old debates because they’re out of new ideas. The future of Quebec – its place within Canada – is an important issue.

But it is not the ONLY issue, because wherever we look, we’re losing Canada. The whole thing and that sense that we stand for something. Something to each other. Something to the world.

There was a time when Canadians listened to their Prime Minister, they knew what that Prime Minister believed. There was a time when the Prime Ministers themselves knew what they believed. Not anymore.

We now have a Liberal Prime Minister who seems to think that Lester Pearson is just the name of an airport. Paul Martin’s Liberals are so busy playing political games they’ve forgotten what they believe in. After 12 years of abandoning what the Liberal Party used to stand for, all we get now is political posturing.

Phoney fights with Quebec separatists and our American neighbours. Phoney fights in which Paul Martin will say anything for a vote. And phoney fights designed to hide one shameful fact:

That under Paul Martin, the Liberals have lost their values and broken so many promises they don’t even bother to pretend anymore. They’re avoiding the responsibility of respecting Canadians’ values – with action – not election rhetoric.

For Mr. Martin, it’s all a game.

And the Conservatives? The Conservatives are today’s Liberals in a hurry.

Stephen Harper’s Conservatives want to privatize faster, pollute faster, integrate our economy into the United States faster.

And the reason we have so many phoney fights is simple: Paul Martin’s record looks a lot like Stephen Harper’s platform. More for-profit health care. More pollution. Less sovereignty. No wonder people are looking for change.

Because the kind of Canada they keep voting for isn’t here. And they’re tired of waiting.

I’m raising these questions about the future of Canada in Alberta for a reason.

Ralph Klein has said that I’ve been clear on health care. I came to deliver a message. One that he needs to hear.

Back off.

You are not going to destroy public health care. New Democrats won’t let you. Make no mistake about it.

Ralph Klein is picking up right where this spring’s Chaoulli decision left off. He’s preparing to undermine our public health care system.

It’s the issue people say they care about the most. And yet Mr. Martin and Mr. Harper have nothing to say to Mr. Klein.

His government has commissioned a study – costing a million and a half dollars – to tell it how to end the system of single-payer, universal health insurance. And replace our medicare system with one where private, for-profit insurance companies can get into the market.

New Democrats will not stand by, doing nothing, while public health care is destroyed. Paul Martin had his chance to clamp down on premiers who won’t respect medicare. He failed.

The NDP won’t.

We founded medicare. And we’ll protect and improve it.

Working families have the right to know that public health care is there for them – and for their parents, who deserve dignity after a lifetime of building this country.

So I’m telling Ralph Klein, Gordon Campbell – and Jean Charest too.

New Democrats will defend public health care.

When a provincial government takes the wrong road, we need more from the Prime Minister than a phoney fight. We need a real backbone.

The backbone Mr. Martin only finds when he’s saying anything for a vote.

Friends, if all we ever do in elections is let politicians pick phoney fights, we’ll never get the debate…or the change…people want.

Paul Martin ne protégera pas les principes de notre système public de soins de la santé.

Un système de santé instauré pour la première fois par Tommy Douglas en Saskatchewan.

Je dis donc à Ralph Klein – et à Jean Charest aussi, Même si Paul Martin ne défend pas ce que son père a aidé à construire,

Les Néo-démocrates verront à protéger le système public de soins de la santé.

Health care’s rapid privatization is one example of a real debate that we won’t back down on.

But there are others, too, right here in Alberta.

Average Albertan working families are just like working families all across this country – they want to know their children can get access to good skills training, or good post-secondary education, at a cost their family budget can afford. They want to see national leadership on that issue.

Average working families in this province need affordable housing – from Calgary up to Fort McMurray. We made a good start in last spring’s NDP budget. But there’s a lot left to do.

And average working families in Alberta and all across this country deserve better than to see their province’s resources and utilities being sold out from underneath them.

Yet we’ve seen Liberals encourage the Chinese Government to buy up part of the oil sands…

And one of George Bush’s biggest backers already owns some of our water and sewage systems in Alberta.

Those are some of the real issues in this campaign. Health privatization. Education and training. Looking after our seniors. Looking after our kids. Housing. Protecting our economic sovereignty.

It might be easier for Paul Martin to pick phoney fights than talk about things that matter to people, but Canada deserves better.

More NDP MPs will do better. And deliver the kind of change people want. But we can’t do it alone.

So as this first phase of the campaign wraps up and the holidays begin, As you gather with your family, Your friends and your loved ones, I’d ask you to talk it over. And ask why Mr. Martin is so afraid to talk about real issues that matter to people.

I think it’s because his record shows he won’t deliver for people.

So if you voted Liberal in the past because you believed they stood for something, but find you can’t believe a word they say. New Democrats can make a real change if you change your vote.

If you voted Conservative or Reform or Alliance in the past because you thought their MPs would fight to clean up government – to make it accountable. But found they didn’t and they won’t. New Democrats can make a REAL change, if you change your vote.

But we can only make it if you change your vote. And consider voting NDP. For the kind of change you want.

And now, on a lighter note, I’m delighted to be joined by the Raging Grannies who are here to give us some political cheer.

Thank you. Merry Christmas. Happy Holidays.

Over to you – the Edmonton Chapter of the Raging Grannies.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
"But it is not the ONLY issue, because wherever we look, we’re losing Canada."

Right...sounds like he is barking up the same old tree to me.

We "lost Canada" when they tried to socialize everything.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
Layton Issues Blunt Warning To Klein On Health

Thu 22 Dec 2005
“Back off”

EDMONTON – NDP Leader Jack Layton today delivered a blunt warning to Alberta Premier Ralph Klein.

“Back off. You are not going to destroy public health care,” Layton said. “New Democrats won’t let you.”

Layton was responding to the Alberta government’s decision to spend $1.5 million on a consultant’s study on how to introduce private, for-profit insurance companies into the province’s health care system. Layton also had harsh words for the failure of Paul Martin and Stephen Harper to defend medicare in Canada.

“The Liberals are avoiding the responsibility of standing up for Canada and Canadians – with action – not election rhetoric,” Layton said. “And the Conservatives? They’ve become today’s Liberals in a hurry.”

Layton said that New Democrats would defend public health care, and asked for Canadians’ support.

“If you voted Liberal in the past because you believed in a strong Canada, but find you can’t believe a word they say, we can make a real change if you change your vote,” Layton said.

“If you voted Conservative or Reform or Alliance in the past because you wanted MPs who would fight to clean up government – to make it accountable, but found they didn’t and they won’t, we can make a real change if you change your vote.

“As you gather with family, friends and loved ones over the holidays, I’d ask you to talk it over. Consider voting NDP for the kind of change you want,” Layton said.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
"Layton said that New Democrats would defend public health care, and asked for Canadians’ support. "

And if we don't give it to him, will he drop the issue?
 

Calberty

Electoral Member
Dec 7, 2005
277
0
16
Reverend Blair is still worshiping his god. :wink:

Layton in Alberta trying to stave off the humiliation of coming 4th in the provice behind thd Greens in even more ridings than they did last time. This is the NDP base after 16 Federal elections. :p
 

MMMike

Council Member
Mar 21, 2005
1,410
1
38
Toronto
EDMONTON – NDP Leader Jack Layton today delivered a blunt warning to Alberta Premier Ralph Klein.

“Back off. You are not going to destroy public health care,” Layton said. “New Democrats won’t let you
.”

:roll: I thought Jack was ok with private healthcare delivery? :? Why does he keep flip flopping on this issue? This is as phoney as Martin's 'defense of unity' during the english language debate.
 

MMMike

Council Member
Mar 21, 2005
1,410
1
38
Toronto
Ralph Klein has said that I’ve been clear on health care. I came to deliver a message. One that he needs to hear.

Back off.

You are not going to destroy public health care. New Democrats won’t let you. Make no mistake about it.

Ralph Klein is picking up right where this spring’s Chaoulli decision left off. He’s preparing to undermine our public health care system.

The courts decided if the government couldn't provide adequate healthcare, it was the public's right to get private care and have private healthcare insurance. You have to respect this right, you can't cherrypick rights, you have to stand up for all of them.
 

Roy

Electoral Member
Nov 23, 2005
218
0
16
Alberta
Layton in Alberta trying to stave off the humiliation of coming 4th in the provice behind thd Greens in even more ridings than they did last time. This is the NDP base after 16 Federal elections. Razz

hahahah that is funny and true, actualy in my riding (calgary north center) the Green Party and the NDP were relatively close with the NDP able to get only 300 or 400 more votes. I think if people in Alberta actualy knew more about the green party they would easily come ahead of the NDP. Now seeing as how the conservatives will probably easily win my riding I am stuck with making 1 of two choices, either vote CPC to send the message that the Liberals had no chance, or vote Green to send the message to Alberta that the Green Party is a much more logical choice in this province than the NDP.

ahhh...choices choices choices... :p
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
The courts decided if the government couldn't provide adequate healthcare, it was the public's right to get private care and have private healthcare insurance. You have to respect this right, you can't cherrypick rights, you have to stand up for all of them.

And the NDP are by working to make sure that adequate care is available so that the court case doesn't matter.
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
3,786
0
36
Toronto
www.mytimenow.net
Re: RE: NDP Policies

Roy said:
hey finder I see that you are favoring to vote for the NDP or the Conservatives...will you be strategicaly voting. What was your riding like in the last election?

I'm supporting the NDPer in my riding and I don't like Strategic voting as it Ruins our syste. Since my NDPer most likely won't be winning Harper just has to say one more thing to win my vote for this election. That he will support electoral reform with either PR or Mixed. That would take my vote for this one election to support him. He's gotten my attention with Senate reform.

York Centre. Ken Dryen I think will win it again. I think he got the magority of the vote last election I can't remember. soemwhere between 45-55%. Meaning it's now a liberal strong hold and since he's a big name I don't think the Conservative and NDP vote together will remove him. So a vote for the NDP, Conservative or Green is a wasted vote and why should we vote. Thats how a lot of people will see it. So voting against Dyden will be a vote of protest (which will dully be ignored.)


BTW I emailed Ken Dryden this year about electoral reform. He didn't even reply. I would have voted for him this election if he had only said he supported electoral reform.