Most BCers have lost confidence in the rcmp

[petros]

What is meant by “care and control”?
A person may be in care and control of a motor vehicle if the person has the present ability to set the vehicle in motion, or where there is a risk that the person could put the vehicle in motion either on purpose or by accident and become a danger to the public.

If someone is found in the driver’s seat of a motor vehicle, care and control is presumed unless it can be established that he or she did not occupy that seat for the purpose of setting the vehicle in motion. But, even if not in the driver’s seat, if it is proven that a person was using the motor vehicle in such a fashion that it may be set in motion, one may still be found in care and control. So, there is a danger of being found guilty even if a person is just sleeping in a motor vehicle. It may even be possible to find someone in care and control of a motor vehicle who is simply near the motor vehicle and has the ability to set it into motion.

 

[JLM]

You have this a little wrong. He had to have the keys in the ignition, not just on him. I'm not sticking up for him but - we don't know all the facts yet. If you think the police are not being honest - why make it public at all? All they had to do was have a member hop into the driver's seat and drive him home and say nothing at all. None of us would ever have known the difference. Instead, they reported him. So they were being honest and they deserve credit for it. People will criticize the media for so many things but when they state that the public in BC is losing confidence in the RCMP many of you choose to believe it. How many of you got a call regarding that poll? There must have been one. How else would they know?8O

I don't know what the law states now, but years ago if you were in the vehicle drunk and the keys were in your possession you would be charged with impaired driving. I'm not sure how fair that was so possibly the rules have been changed. BUT I think if they had you'd have heard MADD screaming blue bloody murder.

 

[Kakato]

Then don't Iggy. You would be wrong.

You dont have to have the keys in the ignition to have care and control of a vehicle.
Thats an old wives tale.

 

[TenPenny]

You have this a little wrong. He had to have the keys in the ignition, not just on him.

I was reading a case about a guy here in NB who got his car stuck in a ditch, then went through his stuff and found a bottle, so he drank a pint and went to sleep...the cops found him, but the judge found him not guilty of drinking and driving BECAUSE THE KEYS WERE NOT IN THE IGNITION.

So there ya go. It was in the paper within the last week, but I'm not going to dig up the reference.

 

[Kakato]

No. They have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he was going to drive that vehicle and it's un-likely they will ever prove that.

I know quite a few people who got charged after being found passed out in the back seat of their car.
I also have a cop scanner and hear every single call or complaint,petros is right.
My first boss was also an auxiliary cop so I know most of the tricks as I was pretty haywire in my younger days.

 

[Kakato]

Criminal lawyer Ron Jourard says.

Care or control

You do not have to be caught driving to be charged with Over 80 or Impaired. It's enough if you're in "care or control." You are presumed to be in care or control if police find you sitting in the driver's seat.
However, you may rebut the presumption if your intention on entering the driver's seat was not to drive (e.g., to sleep). If you rebut the presumption, you might still be found guilty if the Crown can show that you performed some act or acts involving the vehicle or its fittings, or conduct associated with the vehicle, that involve the risk of putting it in motion.
Beware: you may be found in care or control even if you are outside your vehicle.

 

[pgs]

Just accept that you are. I've asked the question twice over the past couple of days. Maybe it's a tad different in Sask. but you have lived in this province. You think that nearly 27 years on traffic doesn't make a difference in the knowledge of the law?

My friend once was arrested charged and convicted for sleeping in his car with the keys in his pockets.In Vancouver or Burnaby B.C. It may be some lawyer beat that section since but at the time it cost him 3 months and $150.50/50 chance of being RCMP as arresting officer.

 

[VanIsle]

I was reading a case about a guy here in NB who got his car stuck in a ditch, then went through his stuff and found a bottle, so he drank a pint and went to sleep...the cops found him, but the judge found him not guilty of drinking and driving BECAUSE THE KEYS WERE NOT IN THE IGNITION.

So there ya go. It was in the paper within the last week, but I'm not going to dig up the reference.

Thank you. You have proved what I have been saying and they won't "hear".

 

[VanIsle]

I know quite a few people who got charged after being found passed out in the back seat of their car.
I also have a cop scanner and hear every single call or complaint,petros is right.
My first boss was also an auxiliary cop so I know most of the tricks as I was pretty haywire in my younger days.

What you hear on a scanner means very little. It's what happens in court that matters. If a police officer writes up a proper file and includes all the facts he goes into court confident of a conviction. If a lawyer cares whether or not he just earns his money, he goes into court un-prepared and loses and his client is charged with an offence. If the lawyer cares and studies the case with more than a brief glance at the file before leaving the office for court, the client will likely have the charges dropped. What you need to understand is the pay is the same! It's really dependent on whether or not the client matters that much. It's an impaired charge, not a life sentence in jail. My own sons were auxilliary police. Do you not think after spending all these years married to a police officer that I don't know how much an auxilliary knows? I know how much they like to think they know. They don't need to know the criminal code inside out. The police officer should be able to pretty much quote the well used sections of it by heart. Impaired driving being one of them.
All of you are forgetting one simple fact. It has to be proven that he intended to drive and if he did not have the keys in the ignition, they probablywill never prove that. If he did have the keys in the ignition, he will probably be charged and he probably should be.

 

[lone wolf]

Explain that to Teddy Tufts of Coboconk Ontario who was charged in his chair just inside the back door of the Pattie House Hotel for having care and control of the vehicle parked less than fifteen feet away - even if it was outside that door. How do you suppose the magistrate upheld the charge enough to fine him?

 

[Kakato]

He can be charged with care and control,wether he intended to drive or not makes no difference as he will lose his licence.I know 2 people who have been charged like this,ones my nieghbour.Both guys said the same thing,they didnt think they would be charged sleeping in the back seat with keys in their pockets.
I've had 2 impaireds myself way back when so I have a pretty good idea of what they will charge you with.
I also have cops in the family and my uncle was chief of police in Estevan.

Sorry but thats the law.

 

[AnnaG]

I think a lot of the fault lies with those meting out the punishment to cops who do screw up. As soon as a cop is found engaged in aberrant behaviour, he should be suspended without pay with intent to dismiss until the cop himself can provide evidence why he deserves more lenient treatment. I think the majority of cops do their jobs in a professional manner, but one buffoon like Robinson can spoil it for thousands.

.... and one senior brass can screw up and make it miserable for dozens just by putting one idiot like Robinson in charge.

 

[AnnaG]

The Royal Canadian Mounted Police should of course be held to a higher standard, but to play Devil’s advocate, let’s not kid ourselves into thinking that there are those in the general population who seek at every turn to blow even the slightest errors on the RCMP’s part entirely out of proportion. If one officer is caught almost drinking and driving, that does not make the entire police force a bunch of drunk drivers; nor does one case of police brutality mean that all of our officers are out to beat the public. All of my dealings with the RCMP (which have thankfully been few and far between) have been very positive experiences.

I, as a resident of British Columbia, have complete faith and confidence in the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

lmao That's ok, 5P. We have friends who are RCMP and fairly often, they don't have a lot of faith in their higher ups.

 

[AnnaG]

From a CDN legal advise page.

Quote: "Having Care and Control of a Motor Vehicle while Impaired"
Having care and control of a vehicle
does not require that you be driving it. Occupying the
driver's seat, even if you did not have the keys, is
sufficient. Walking towards the car with the keys could be
sufficient. Some defenses are you were not impaired, or you
did not have care and control because you were not in the
driver's seat, did not have the keys, etc. It is not a
defense that you registered below 80 m.g. on the
breathalyzer test. Having care and control depends on all
circumstances.

Pretty much.

 

[AnnaG]

At any rate, you people want to keep squabbling about who can get charged and who can't, go ahead but that's not why I posted this thread.

 

[JLM]

.... and one senior brass can screw up and make it miserable for dozens just by putting one idiot like Robinson in charge.

Yep, that idiot should have been canned at the outset.

 

[Ron in Regina]

It's been said in our courts that the police have no obligation to protect you or your property. If they aren't there to protect us and our property who or what exactly are they there to protect?

Don't think so? here in Regina a kid stopped a cop and asked for help getting his bicycle back that was just stolen. The kid pointed to the theives and his bicycle but the constable told him to "phone in and file a complaint".

You are lieing to your kid if you tell him/her that the police are there to help you if you are in danger.

Oh....I remember reading about this one in the paper. The Kid had JUST
gotten beaten up, and flagged down a Police car, and was able to point
out the kids 1/2 a city block away on HIS bicycle....and got blown off by
the City Police here....

I have dealt with Law Enforcement Canada wide and across Indiana,
Wisconsin, Illinois, Michigan, Minnesota, North Dakota, Montana,
Idaho, Washington, and Oregon in my capacity as the Compliance
Officer & Safety Supervisor for an International Transportation Company,
and I can honestly say that many of the Regina Police locally are a breed
apart from every other Department that I've ever had to deal with....not to
say that there aren't some very good Cops here....but....lots aren't and
they are very blatant about it. Petros...being in the same city as you, I hear
you loud & clear....the only thing even close are some of the Provincial
Traffic guys in Quebec....and One Guy in one Jackson County in Michigan, &
two Guys in one specific scale house (known by Truckers as "10" due to their
physical shapes, as one is rotund & the other is a bean pole) in North Dakota.

Regina's force doesn't have a great rep...but they've earned what they have.

 

[Kakato]

The preferential treatment for cops isnt confined to B.C.
I worked with this guy pipelining,the cop shot him twice in the holding cell,was charged with manslaughter and got 2 years less a day house arrest,then appealed and it went on and on but he was finally found guilty.


Killer officer ordered to jail

Connie Varley isn't looking forward to another Christmas without her brother-in-law. But she hopes the man who killed him might finally spend a first Christmas behind bars.
The Alberta Court of Appeal ruled Monday that former RCMP constable Mike Ferguson should serve the mandatory minimum four-year jail sentence for his manslaughter conviction in shooting Darren Varley twice during a fight in a Pincher Creek cell in October 1999.
The ruling overturned a decision by Justice Ged Hawco in the Calgary Court of Queen's Bench in December 2004 that granted Ferguson a rare constitutional exemption, allowing Ferguson to serve a conditional sentence of two years less a day in the community.

 

[lindyloo646]

I am finding this thread quite interesting....we have 3 vehicles in this house. Two of the three dont need to have keys in the ignition to drive them.....so keys are in your purse/pocket etc and you push a button and the car starts.

Say I have had a few drinks...fully plan on driving drunk.....keys are in my pocket....do I have care and control when the cop knocks on my car window?

 

[AnnaG]

Yes, you do.
And thanks for sticking to the topic.

I heard about that one Kakato.Alberta is next on the list for a high rate of people losing respect for the RCMP. I think the percentage quoted was about 36% of Albertans losing respect.