Liberal phobia and the cause….

[SirJosephPorter]

"the GST cut is among them." That is a total crock of B.S. and you know it, five cents off the price of a lb. of nails does nothing to help the rich, but it does lighten the burden for the poor.

GST cut very much favors the rich. The rich billionaire who wants to buy a 200,000 $ rolls saves 2000 $ as a result of 1% GST cut. The single mother working for minimum wage saves squat. Most of her income goes for food and other essentials; there is no GST on them to start with.

An income tax cut (along with tax credit for those who don't pay any income tax) favors everybody equally. Not that there was a need for any tax cuts at that time. Harper blew away all the liberal surplus in tax cuts.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Oh puleeeeease, where were you during the 70's? The Liberals perfected "borrow tax and spend financing", which bought votes that kept them in office well past their best before date.

No doubt Trudeau did run up huge deficits and mismanaged the economy. I am not going to defend his economic performance (as many conservatives defend Mulroney). Trudeau was probably the best PM Canada has ever had; his name will endure as long as Canada endures, in spite of his dismal economic performance, not because of it.

However, since then liberals are known for sound economic management, both here and in USA. Here of course, Liberals cleaned up the gigantic mess left by Mulroney, converted 40 billion $ plus deficit into 10 billion $ plus surplus.

Same thing here in Ontario. Mike Harris made a huge mess of the economy, with 6 billion $ deficit (in spite of savage cuts to social assistance for the poor). McGuinty, with firm and skillful economic management, converted it into a 2 billion $ surplus (before the Bush meltdown hit us, now Ontario has a deficit, like everybody else).

Or in USA, Clinton converted Bush deficit into 100 billion $ plus surplus. The second Bush promptly converted it into 500 billion $ plus deficit by giving tax cuts to the rich.

In recent memory liberals have been known for sound, prudent economic management, conservatives for borrow and spend.

 

[TenPenny]

I see, so the fact that Chrétien/Martin converted huge deficits into huge surpluses, the credit for that indirectly goes to Mulroney?

Amazing, why didn’t I think of that? This Mulroney of yours must be an economic wizard indeed, to plan for the success of Liberals so far in advance.

I am ambivalent about GST; I don’t have any strong views one way or the other. But the fierce opposition to GST when it was introduced was unwarranted, in my opinion. People were hoping mad at Mulroney, so they were going to oppose anything proposed by Mulroney.

Having said that, to indirectly give Mulroney the credit for the booming economy under the Liberals requires a great leap of faith, a great leap in logic. Only a committed, dyed in the wool conservative is capable of that.

I gather that you don't understand what I wrote.

I didn't give credit to Mulroney for anything other than bringing in the GST, which was one of the tools that allowed Martin to slay the deficit.

If you could possibly try reading what is written, you might be able to keep up.

 

[taxslave]

I think it depends a large part on where you live in this country how you feel about the various parties. In the West by and large we view the two main parties as one with two names since they have taken turns screwing us since confederation.
If you live in Ontario or Quebec then it is only logical that you support the liberals because that is where they send everything that they steal.
There are three main reasons why the West hates the Liberal party although not necessarily Liberal ideas. Two of them are PETs. The National Energy Plan, which was to steal energy resources from the West and gift them to the large vote manufacturing sector in Ontario. The other was having bilingualism rammed down our throats. There are very few french speakers in B.C. but almost all Asian languages have higher representation.
The third is the long gun registry and repressive gun laws that were largely brought in to buy votes in the eastern cities. We basically resent being talked down to by some eastern city slickers with no clue of reality and too much time in front of the boob tube watching Hollywood shootemups.
There have been many others over the years,most of which have been eliminated like the Crow rate and a national tax on marine fuel that only applies on the west coast.(not sure if it is gone or not)
About the only thing we all agree on is that the dippers are bad all round but do work for a protest vote since even a lot of union supporters think they are a joke.
I have voted for both parties over the years, mostly holding my nose. Sometimes I vote for the local candidate, sometimes in spite of him/her. Sometimes because of a single issue that stands out and I can tolerate the rest of their platform.

 

[Cliffy]

I believe that there are people who go into politics for the good of the people and the country. But, 5 minutes in Ottawa, Victoria, Edmonton or any other parliament or legislature, and they are corrupted of any semblance of humanity. They are converted to pigs at the trough. Don't matter what rhetoric they spout, it is all the same crap coming out. Cons and Glibs are no different than the Dippers. I would just as soon see the Greens in power. At least we haven't tasted their brand of crap yet.

 

[taxslave]

I believe that there are people who go into politics for the good of the people and the country. But, 5 minutes in Ottawa, Victoria, Edmonton or any other parliament or legislature, and they are corrupted of any semblance of humanity. They are converted to pigs at the trough. Don't matter what rhetoric they spout, it is all the same crap coming out. Cons and Glibs are no different than the Dippers. I would just as soon see the Greens in power. At least we haven't tasted their brand of crap yet.

No industrial sector or government could afford the greenies. At least not Ellimays version, perhaps some of the European greens though.

 

[Cliffy]

No industrial sector or government could afford the greenies. At least not Ellimays version, perhaps some of the European greens though.

I am partial to the Rhino Party. Too bad they're not around any more. Industrialization is not the end all or be all. Humanity did fine for a few hundred thousand years without it.

 

[taxslave]

I am partial to the Rhino Party. Too bad they're not around any more. Industrialization is not the end all or be all. Humanity did fine for a few hundred thousand years without it.

True but they did it with about 8 billion fewer people.

 

[Kreskin]

I heard Jack Layton on the radio yesterday. Even he said that aside from the partisanship bickering and differences, each member of parliament is a regular person who try to do good for everyone. Sometimes we put too much attention on spin and not enough on people.

 

[JLM]

I think it depends a large part on where you live in this country how you feel about the various parties. In the West by and large we view the two main parties as one with two names since they have taken turns screwing us since confederation.
If you live in Ontario or Quebec then it is only logical that you support the liberals because that is where they send everything that they steal.
There are three main reasons why the West hates the Liberal party although not necessarily Liberal ideas. Two of them are PETs. The National Energy Plan, which was to steal energy resources from the West and gift them to the large vote manufacturing sector in Ontario. The other was having bilingualism rammed down our throats. There are very few french speakers in B.C. but almost all Asian languages have higher representation.
The third is the long gun registry and repressive gun laws that were largely brought in to buy votes in the eastern cities. We basically resent being talked down to by some eastern city slickers with no clue of reality and too much time in front of the boob tube watching Hollywood shootemups.
There have been many others over the years,most of which have been eliminated like the Crow rate and a national tax on marine fuel that only applies on the west coast.(not sure if it is gone or not)
About the only thing we all agree on is that the dippers are bad all round but do work for a protest vote since even a lot of union supporters think they are a joke.
I have voted for both parties over the years, mostly holding my nose. Sometimes I vote for the local candidate, sometimes in spite of him/her. Sometimes because of a single issue that stands out and I can tolerate the rest of their platform.

Your wisdom is evident as usual. You're like me, I vote the way I think is going to be the least detrimental to me at the time. I don't live breathe and eat politics. I try to think in a methodical, common sense manner and if that labels me as being typical of one party or another so be it. Libs and Cons are basically tarred with the brush- N.D.P. "is very good until someone else's money runs out".

 

[Kreskin]

I see, so the fact that Chrétien/Martin converted huge deficits into huge surpluses, the credit for that indirectly goes to Mulroney?

Amazing, why didn’t I think of that? This Mulroney of yours must be an economic wizard indeed, to plan for the success of Liberals so far in advance.

I am ambivalent about GST; I don’t have any strong views one way or the other. But the fierce opposition to GST when it was introduced was unwarranted, in my opinion. People were hoping mad at Mulroney, so they were going to oppose anything proposed by Mulroney.

Having said that, to indirectly give Mulroney the credit for the booming economy under the Liberals requires a great leap of faith, a great leap in logic. Only a committed, dyed in the wool conservative is capable of that.

Hey, he even planned 9-11 with Reagan back in the 80's. All that green beer and he's-a-jolly-good-fellow stuff was smoke and mirrors.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

I think it depends a large part on where you live in this country how you feel about the various parties. In the West by and large we view the two main parties as one with two names since they have taken turns screwing us since confederation.

That is not the impression here in Ontario, taxslave. The impression here is that the West is overwhelmingly Conservative, especially Alberta, and to a large extent, Saskatchewan (though at local level, SK does elect NDP governments).

Just as Ontario can be relied to vote Liberal, the West can be relied to vote Conservative. That is why on the election night, when Ontario results are out, we know who is going to win.

If Liberals emerge out of Ontario with a huge advantage, they have a shot at winning. If Conservatives emerge even with Liberals or even if a little bit behind, they are sure to win the election.

 

[gopher]

"The answer my friends is blowing in the wind"

Perhaps Canadian conservatives are taking a big page out of the USA's right wing book!

 

[Kreskin]

"The answer my friends is blowing in the wind"

Perhaps Canadian conservatives are taking a big page out of the USA's right wing book!

In Canada, conservative generally means fiscal conservative. Most of us agree that religious pursuit has a place but not in parliament.

 

[#juan]

Oh puleeeeease, where were you during the 70's? The Liberals perfected "borrow tax and spend financing", which bought votes that kept them in office well past their best before date.

No Bob what kept the Liberals in was the fact that Mulroney had destroyed the PC party and the NDP were not an option anyone could live with and neither were the Reform, so the Liberals won an extra term. Remember that the Liberal passed a fairly decent surplus to Harper.

 

[AnnaG]

That is not the impression here in Ontario, taxslave. The impression here is that the West is overwhelmingly Conservative, especially Alberta, and to a large extent, Saskatchewan (though at local level, SK does elect NDP governments).

Just as Ontario can be relied to vote Liberal, the West can be relied to vote Conservative. That is why on the election night, when Ontario results are out, we know who is going to win.

If Liberals emerge out of Ontario with a huge advantage, they have a shot at winning. If Conservatives emerge even with Liberals or even if a little bit behind, they are sure to win the election.

Except in BC where we wobble between being socialist and a combo of fiscally conservative/liberaleverythingelse. And Manitoba isn't conservative, but NDP. And Sask is governed by a combo Liberal and Conservative party known as the Saskatchewan party which probably puts it as a centrist government. So much for your Ontario impression of the west.

 

[Kreskin]

It doesn't matter what party it is, a majority government can cut spending and a minority can't.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

Sorry Soc but we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. In the areas (traits) of important those two thugs had more in common than not. They both ran up huge debts, they were both highly arrogant and stuck on themselves and they both put themselves ahead of the electorate. I'll make a deal with you Soc- if you don't try to preach Canadian politics to me, I won't try to preach Greek politics to you. :smile:

I love you for that JLM..... Deal………..and I am not preaching just a bold discussion. Absolutely, both used arrogance to reach notoriety,
One thing I saw on Trudeau, that I did not see on Mulroney was that, Trudeau, did work which benefited the Canadian people.


He introduced the Charter or Rights and Freedoms, I KNOW THESE are LIBERAL words, were as Mulroney, I personally feel I am still paying for mistakes that I did not give him authorisation to put me in the hole for this long, or none at all for that matter.

Especially when I did not vote for the Conservatives.
So......................as I have stated on this thread I am, for a 4 year term government, I have never missed an election since I was 19 years old in 1970, I am 60 now, and I am not here to convert anyone, on the idea one party the same rulers for ever is not a good idea for the people.

As for the Greek politics I call Canada my home and what happens there it would not be fair for me to get into it, when in fact I don’t vote there.

we Canadians should always, like Ron said keep informed with the goings on in the theatre of our Government of the day, insure the default vote is in, to keep the balance and praise performance over bones and carrots on the stick , bones and carrots on the stick are farrrrrrrr away from performance, they serve as blinders, and we don’t want the blinders on.

Cheers:lol:

 

[Socrates the Greek]

"The answer my friends is blowing in the wind"

Perhaps Canadian conservatives are taking a big page out of the USA's right wing book!

Good to see you Gopher, this confirms your point, the man Harper whent as far as plegurising Jhon Howards speach that was in line with the lie, no weapens were ever found, but here is proof to the exted of the plegurization that went on when meating with Bush.
If I may add, Bush was instramental in insuring what both Conservatives had to say Harper and Howard
YouTube - Stephen Harper copies John Howard:roll::roll::roll:

 

[AnnaG]

Seems to me we are still paying for a thing the Gliberals brought in and has yet to do even a small fraction of what it was supposed to do. Oh yeah, Cons = all bad, Glibs = all good. roflmao

Dat dair Jean Chratian he say, "Shawinigate, Shawinigate, look at all de dough we make".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sponsorship_scandal