It's Official - Sidney Crosby's an Idiot

[talloola]

I don't disagree, but I will say this: It's the owners that put up all the cash and take all the risk in this deal. None of the arena staff would have those jobs if the ownership didn't take the chance in the first place.

it is a partnership between owners and players, they need each other, and also need an agreement that is
fair for all, it is winding down slowly, just money stuff left on the table.
last negotiations the players assoc agreed to a cap, which was a trade off for other things the players
asked for, it was a fair trade.
Now the NHL want some of those 'things' back which they negotiated in good faith, but there is no way
they would ever remove the cap.
These are tough negotiations and the players union must not cave in to the pressure, they must stand
their ground and fight for their rights, it is the fair and democratic way to do things.

I was very happy to see 'Pavel Bure' accept his award last night, now he is in the hall of fame.
By far the best and most exciting player the canucks have ever signed, too bad things went sour
between he and pat quinn, or he would have played out his career in vancouver.

Well deserved, and congrats to adam oates, joe sakic, and mats sundin, although canucks saw him after
his legs were gone, and only the spirit was left, but he had his day, well deserved also.

 

[JLM]

it is a partnership between owners and players, they need each other, and also need an agreement that is
fair for all, it is winding down slowly, just money stuff left on the table.
last negotiations the players assoc agreed to a cap, which was a trade off for other things the players
asked for, it was a fair trade.
Now the NHL want some of those 'things' back which they negotiated in good faith, but there is no way
they would ever remove the cap.
These are tough negotiations and the players union must not cave in to the pressure, they must stand
their ground and fight for their rights, it is the fair and democratic way to do things.

I was very happy to see 'Pavel Bure' accept his award last night, now he is in the hall of fame.
By far the best and most exciting player the canucks have ever signed, too bad things went sour
between he and pat quinn, or he would have played out his career in vancouver.

Well deserved, and congrats to adam oates, joe sakic, and mats sundin, although canucks saw him after
his legs were gone, and only the spirit was left, but he had his day, well deserved also.

Better than Linden you think?

 

[Cannuck]

Crosby holds his ground on CBA frustration, contract issues

Stop it Sid, you're gonna make me pee!

 

[talloola]

Better than Linden you think?

bure was much more talented than linden, a very gifted skater, and goal scorer,
he could handle and control the puck at top speed better than any other player
I had seen, no comparison to linden, who was a very hard worker, a very good player,
a very valuable player to the team, and contributed at a high level all of his career,
but no, he did not have the skills of bure, nowhere near, and a totally different type
of player.

linden won't ever be put in the NHL hockey hall of fame.

 

[captain morgan]

it is a partnership between owners and players, they need each other, and also need an agreement that is
fair for all, it is winding down slowly, just money stuff left on the table.
last negotiations the players assoc agreed to a cap, which was a trade off for other things the players
asked for, it was a fair trade.
Now the NHL want some of those 'things' back which they negotiated in good faith, but there is no way
they would ever remove the cap.
These are tough negotiations and the players union must not cave in to the pressure, they must stand
their ground and fight for their rights, it is the fair and democratic way to do things.

'Fair' is entirely in the eye of the beholder.

The last CBA has expired, in essence, there no longer is an agreement in place. All of the terms that existed in the previous agreement, in theory, have no bearing on any go-forward agreement that is being negotiated.

At the end of the day, the owners hold all the cards in this discussion. My belief is that the present economic environment for the league is such that maintaining the status quo will result in dying a slow death, hence the push to take a greater share of the revenues. It is for this reason that I think that the owners are prepared to dig in their heels on the issue.

Everyone will end up losing in the end, but the owners are setting the foundation of the future relationship that the league has with the NHLPA.

 

[JLM]

bure was much more talented than linden, a very gifted skater, and goal scorer,
he could handle and control the puck at top speed better than any other player
I had seen, no comparison to linden, who was a very hard worker, a very good player,
a very valuable player to the team, and contributed at a high level all of his career,
but no, he did not have the skills of bure, nowhere near, and a totally different type
of player.

linden won't ever be put in the NHL hockey hall of fame.

I hear you Talloola, BUT over the long haul I see Linden as the better player, he was more for the team, Bure was more for himself, Linden was a character player & a person of character, always putting the other person first whether it be a team mate or a child at Canuck Place. For dependability in all situations I'll pick Linden. I've found in life it's not always the "brightest light" that is most admired.

 

[talloola]

'Fair' is entirely in the eye of the beholder.

The last CBA has expired, in essence, there no longer is an agreement in place. All of the terms that existed in the previous agreement, in theory, have no bearing on any go-forward agreement that is being negotiated.

At the end of the day, the owners hold all the cards in this discussion. My belief is that the present economic environment for the league is such that maintaining the status quo will result in dying a slow death, hence the push to take a greater share of the revenues. It is for this reason that I think that the owners are prepared to dig in their heels on the issue.

Everyone will end up losing in the end, but the owners are setting the foundation of the future relationship that the league has with the NHLPA.

They will be taking a larger share of the revenue, compared to last agreement, and I don't agree with
your explanation that the players decide to hold their ground on 'certain' agreements put in place last negotiations, is still alive and on the table
for discussion, and that is fair.

There are teams making huge profits, and teams losing money, the have nots are reinbursed by the haves,
has been that way for a long time.

The canucks for one, are a very rich organization, along with toronto, who makes the most money, and
many others doing just fine, the state of the financial wealth of the NHL is in good shape.
I'm not 'all' for the owners, this is a two way partnership, both need each other, the owners would not
be in this business without the highly talented players, and vica versa, they must work together for
the good of the league, and that is not the owners riding roughshod over the players assoc, forcing
them to give back, give back, give back.
There are some parts of running the NHL that the owners must take responsibility for, but they choose
to throw their money around recklesley, throw too much money at free agents, then turnaround and
and try to punish the players for their own stupidity.
I don't know how some of these owners made all of their multi millions, as some of the stupid things
they have done in the NHL makes one raise the eye brows, they couldn't be doing that with the rest of
their businesses.
Bettman must straighten out his mistakes he made with southern teams in the up n coming few years, and
get those team moved to areas where the fans will support it.

He has done well by moving atlanta to winnipeg, now lets see a few others moved. My goodness bettman
was given a huge raise for himself to 8 million a year, poor baby, he must be struggling to make ends meet each month, we might see him at the food bank soon.

The NHL is not in financial trouble, the lockout might make a few of those fans in those cities who don't
give a rats *** about the game, forget about it and not come back, but the rest of the fans will be
back as soon as the game is back, there are long waiting lists for seasons tickets in many cities,
and hockey is alive and well, and the game is better than it ever was.

 

[captain morgan]

I suppose that it comes down to this: If the NHLPA believe that they deserve a guaranteed 'X' percent of the revenues, then it's time to belly-up to the bar and contribute a guaranteed 'Y' value... The owners are committing hard cash as their side in the form of salaries, arenas, marketing, admin, etc.. These items are largely quantifiable and measurable. That said, the NHLPA will have to justify their contribution, but in real terms; offering a 110% effort and the hope that you'll win the cup doesn't work so well with the bank in terms of financing.

The choice is theirs to make.

 

[talloola]

I suppose that it comes down to this: If the NHLPA believe that they deserve a guaranteed 'X' percent of the revenues, then it's time to belly-up to the bar and contribute a guaranteed 'Y' value... The owners are committing hard cash as their side in the form of salaries, arenas, marketing, admin, etc.. These items are largely quantifiable and measurable. That said, the NHLPA will have to justify their contribution, but in real terms; offering a 110% effort and the hope that you'll win the cup doesn't work so well with the bank in terms of financing.

The choice is theirs to make.

they allready made an agreement long ago to do revenue sharing. this negotiations has seen the sharing
cut back to 50% each, but there is much more to all of this than 'that'.

the responsibilities the NHLPA have to the care of players is much more than demanding a share of profits,
so check into the complex agreements between the NHL and the NHLPA, its not a simple agreement to share
profits, much much more than that.

Players have had to give up a share of their annual pay for a long time according to how the profits
are doing for the NHL, there is a name for that part of their relationship, can't remember.

 

[Cannuck]

...the responsibilities the NHLPA have to the care of players is much more than demanding a share of profits,
so check into the complex agreements between the NHL and the NHLPA, its not a simple agreement to share
profits, much much more than that.

Players have had to give up a share of their annual pay for a long time according to how the profits
are doing for the NHL, there is a name for that part of their relationship, can't remember.

The league and the players have never agreed to share profits. I'm sure the league would take that in a heartbeat over revenue sharing. I don't think the players would be so eager.

 

[PoliticalNick]

bure was much more talented than linden, a very gifted skater, and goal scorer,
he could handle and control the puck at top speed better than any other player
I had seen, no comparison to linden, who was a very hard worker, a very good player,
a very valuable player to the team, and contributed at a high level all of his career,
but no, he did not have the skills of bure, nowhere near, and a totally different type
of player.

linden won't ever be put in the NHL hockey hall of fame.

While I agree Bure had much more raw talent Linden had the heart of a champion which was lacking in Pavel. That heart, leadership, his work with the NHLPA and the fact he carried the team to the finals in 94 will get Trevor into the hall. He was a warrior, had the 'iron man' streak for a few years in a time when the game was rougher and should be recognized.

 

[Cannuck]

While I agree Bure had much more raw talent Linden had the heart of a champion which was lacking in Pavel. That heart, leadership, his work with the NHLPA and the fact he carried the team to the finals in 94 will get Trevor into the hall. He was a warrior, had the 'iron man' streak for a few years in a time when the game was rougher and should be recognized.

Being a Medicine Hat Tigers fan, I'm a huge Linden fan. He should not be in the HOF. People don't make it into the hall based on intangibles like "heart". His numbers were simply not HOF numbers.

 

[captain morgan]

they allready made an agreement long ago to do revenue sharing. this negotiations has seen the sharing
cut back to 50% each, but there is much more to all of this than 'that'.

the responsibilities the NHLPA have to the care of players is much more than demanding a share of profits,
so check into the complex agreements between the NHL and the NHLPA, its not a simple agreement to share
profits, much much more than that.

Players have had to give up a share of their annual pay for a long time according to how the profits
are doing for the NHL, there is a name for that part of their relationship, can't remember.

I can't comment on any information that may relate to an agreement that was signed before, and supercedes the CBA.

IF such an agreement exists and does supercede the CBA, I would expect that the NHLPA would have had this in a court within hours of the lock-out

As far as the responsibilities that the NHLPA assumes on behalf of its players, well, that is something between the Players Association and its members - it has no impact on the position that the owners will take in this situation.

I do recall that there was some mention that the players would have to put a certain amount of cash from their salary in escrow to potentially 'adjust' for any end-of-year anomalies. That said, I do believe that it was a discussion point that was thrown-in by the ownership at the point when the PA forwarded a rebuttal (contract) to the owner's contract offering... I don't believe that a mechanism like that would be a smart move by the PA, but that's my personal opinion

 

[JLM]

While I agree Bure had much more raw talent Linden had the heart of a champion which was lacking in Pavel. That heart, leadership, his work with the NHLPA and the fact he carried the team to the finals in 94 will get Trevor into the hall. He was a warrior, had the 'iron man' streak for a few years in a time when the game was rougher and should be recognized.

I tend to agree, Nick, Bure may have had better statistics (and I've stated my opinion of them) but Linden was the better man.-

 

[talloola]

The league and the players have never agreed to share profits. I'm sure the league would take that in a heartbeat over revenue sharing. I don't think the players would be so eager.

your'e right, I meant revenue sharing, not profit sharing.

Being a Medicine Hat Tigers fan, I'm a huge Linden fan. He should not be in the HOF. People don't make it into the hall based on intangibles like "heart". His numbers were simply not HOF numbers.

thats right, he doesn't have the numbers.

While I agree Bure had much more raw talent Linden had the heart of a champion which was lacking in Pavel. That heart, leadership, his work with the NHLPA and the fact he carried the team to the finals in 94 will get Trevor into the hall. He was a warrior, had the 'iron man' streak for a few years in a time when the game was rougher and should be recognized.

no, he doesn't have the numbers to get into the hall. The game was rough back then, but slower, and
the speed along with the hitting in the game today, in my opinion make the game much tougher.
The hits that are happening at high speed are getting to the point of scary, not clutching, grabbing
punching and holding, just high velocity hitting that is resulting in lots of injuries.

 

[Mowich]

The fact is the system is broken. Sid's an idiot.

Yeah, yeah..........Sid's an idiot...........I think we got the point with your first post. Call him whatever you want, Cannuck..........it won't change the fact that Sidney is still one of the most exciting players in the league today. The fact is that idiot or not?...............the Kid draws huge crowds wherever he plays. I'm not a fan of Sid's because he is a riveting speaker, I am fan because he is a fabulous hockey player.

 

[damngrumpy]

The owners came back with an offer that I am glad the players turned down.
The owners seriously under estimated the iron will of the players union and
they are getting some of their own right back. The players were encouraged
to sign big deals and favorable terms at the expense of smaller markets and
the owners thought they could spread their ego over the land and make the
game of hockey king in the desert.
Not true, hockey will never catch on down south in depth. The only time you
might see glimmer of progress is if there is a cup winner down in the swamps.
Nope if there is a show down get it over with, force the marginal guys out of the
game and bring the teams north, Seattle is looking and there are others, and
there are some Canadian Cities that could use a team as well.
Gary Bettman could be the casualty in this thing let us hope so. I never saw a
man in sports I liked less with the exception of Sandusky.

 

[talloola]

The owners came back with an offer that I am glad the players turned down.
The owners seriously under estimated the iron will of the players union and
they are getting some of their own right back. The players were encouraged
to sign big deals and favorable terms at the expense of smaller markets and
the owners thought they could spread their ego over the land and make the
game of hockey king in the desert.
Not true, hockey will never catch on down south in depth. The only time you
might see glimmer of progress is if there is a cup winner down in the swamps.
Nope if there is a show down get it over with, force the marginal guys out of the
game and bring the teams north, Seattle is looking and there are others, and
there are some Canadian Cities that could use a team as well.
Gary Bettman could be the casualty in this thing let us hope so. I never saw a
man in sports I liked less with the exception of Sandusky.

we thought bettman was on his way out over a year ago, then they signed him to a new
$8 million per year contract. How on earth do all of those owners, who have to prop
up those pitiful teams in cities where gary put them, and it isn't working, one would
think the owners would have been eager to bring in someone else who would see the NHL
with more vision, but no that is not the case.
The NHL were sure the assoc would cave in by now, but this needs to be done fairly for
both sides, not just one, the assoc now, have a leader at the helm who is just as savvy
as bettman, who can stand up there and meet him at a level that is deep and experienced,
so bettman has his work cut out and he can't 'spin' his way to deals that won't be good
for 'just' the NHL, but has to be fair for the players as well.
hockey is coming to seattle when they finish that wonderful building, which will also bring back basketball to that city.
Quebec, I would assume is also getting ready for a team again, and i'm sure there will be
another team in southern ontario, but the NHL is making sure they put the owner 'they want',
there, as it will be another gold mine, like toronto.

 

[JLM]

Yeah, yeah..........Sid's an idiot...........I think we got the point with your first post. Call him whatever you want, Cannuck..........it won't change the fact that Sidney is still one of the most exciting players in the league today. The fact is that idiot or not?...............the Kid draws huge crowds wherever he plays. I'm not a fan of Sid's because he is a riveting speaker, I am fan because he is a fabulous hockey player.

Consider the source-

 

[talloola]

I tend to agree, Nick, Bure may have had better statistics (and I've stated my opinion of them) but Linden was the better man.-

Linden was a different man, not an immigrant. It is very difficult for someone who doesn't speak
english to come and fit in immediately, that is why bure and odjeck, (sp?) ended up as best buddies.
They both were minorities, they both had difficulty with the language, and although linden was a
fantastic guy, the obvious golden boy that all of vancouver loved, bure was a quieter person, who
wasn't totally comfortable in the public eye, kept more to himself.

how does that make him a lesser man, he thrilled the fans, he was nothing like anyone the canucks
had ever seen, he was a true super star, talent coming out of his pores, he loved the game just as
much as linden, he was spicy, and yes, he left the team, but the undercurrent of the reason for him
leaving was pat quinn who had stepped away from a deal, and wouldn't honor his promise and
bure had no respect for that, and asked to be moved.

they were both good men, most hockey players are very good men, humble, polite and very aware of
where they came from, and they don't forget to look back and help out.