Iran Invasion: Imminent
- Thread starter I think not
- Start date
Obviously events are not unfolding in the middle east according to the Israeli/American plan. The US does not have the resources to invade and occupy Iran without crashing the same way the USSR did in Afghanistan during the 1980's.
How can Israel or the US start a war with Iran when it hasn't been proven that Iran has violated the NPT, actively aids insurgents or threatens the US?
Until Iran directly attacks the US or Israel, the US cannot justify attacking Iran. That card has been played already against Iraq.
Do Americans want to accelerate the debt rate the US to start yet another unprovoked war which kills hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians?
How can Israel or the US start a war with Iran when it hasn't been proven that Iran has violated the NPT, actively aids insurgents or threatens the US?
Until Iran directly attacks the US or Israel, the US cannot justify attacking Iran. That card has been played already against Iraq.
Do Americans want to accelerate the debt rate the US to start yet another unprovoked war which kills hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians?
How can anyone control Palestine when Israel routinely assassinates anyone with the potential to unite Palestinians?
Hamas can only control their own actions, not that of others. Israel knows who belongs to which group, yet kill both peace makers and peace breakers. What does that tell you about Israel's self proclaimed peaceful intentions?
If someone claims all of their neighbors are A$$holes who is the real problem?
Israel has fought wars against every nation on its borders at one time or another. Egypt and Jordan made peace with Israel... after the US coughed up billions in military and economic aid. Is that loyalty or bribery?
Ah, in Iran, the "democratically elected" government requires all candidates for office first be vetted by the clerics...............even the USSR used to have elections, they are a farce without the freedom of all persons and all parties to run.......
CONGRATULATIONS.......you have just won the Silver Silly Swine award for dumbest post of all time on Canadian Content.
colpy: lol.. are you some what jealous that you didnt get that award this year? anyhow..was just sharing my opinion...if I am not welcomed, ill leave.
You most certainly are welcome........I wouldn't want you to go, we need different opinions to have a discussion.
BUT, I mean, come on, the idiots currently running Iran have repeatedly expressed their desire to see Israel wiped off the map.......personally I think a mushroom cloud over Tel Aviv would be a disaster..........
The people of North Korea are led by a guy who is a few bricks short of a load as well............I only wish you would think about what you say.......if you HAVE thought about it, well, we're going to lock horns.
And that is OK.
thank you!
hmm Iran wouldnt succeed in starting such a war...because if that was possible... Pakistan wouldve done it long ago!! ..I mean Pakistan and India was the most disturbed countries in Asia... and they wouldve already started this nuck war...but it didnt occur? why... well Its the joint agreement of the rest of the nuck nations, that anyone that starts a nuck war will be the first one to be targeted by the rest!!
the reason Iran and northkorea are jumping to become a nuck nation is because they want their economies to increase... and they want to get the same respect that the rest of the nuclear nations get!!
Blame U.N. for that.. they failed to look after the little countries.
hmm Iran wouldnt succeed in starting such a war...because if that was possible... Pakistan wouldve done it long ago!! ..I mean Pakistan and India was the most disturbed countries in Asia... and they wouldve already started this nuck war...but it didnt occur? why... well Its the joint agreement of the rest of the nuck nations, that anyone that starts a nuck war will be the first one to be targeted by the rest!!
the reason Iran and northkorea are jumping to become a nuck nation is because they want their economies to increase... and they want to get the same respect that the rest of the nuclear nations get!!
Blame U.N. for that.. they failed to look after the little countries.
Good point.
According to the NPT, non-nuke nations agreed not to pursue nuclear weapon technolgy in exchange for the right to pursue peaceful nuclear technology.
Nuke nations were supposed to reduce and eliminate their arsenals.
Iran may be violating the spirit of the NPT, but the US and other nuke nations are in violation of the NPT.
http://www.un.org/events/npt2005/npttreaty.html
All permanent members of the UNSC got their chair because they possess nukes. When these nations signed the NPT, they agreed to halt nuclear weapon research and pledged to reduce and eliminate their nuclear arsenals.
Instead of respecting the NPT, these nations continued to research nuclear weapon technology. The US even threatened to nuke non-nuke nations in violation of the NPT.
Is it reasonable to expect Iran to halt its legal activities when the US routinely violates the NPT and Israel threatens Iran with its not so secret nukes?
The ripple effect is that Saudi Arabia probably has started a clandestine nuclear program as a result of strained relations with the US and fear of Iran.
According to the NPT, non-nuke nations agreed not to pursue nuclear weapon technolgy in exchange for the right to pursue peaceful nuclear technology.
Nuke nations were supposed to reduce and eliminate their arsenals.
Iran may be violating the spirit of the NPT, but the US and other nuke nations are in violation of the NPT.
http://www.un.org/events/npt2005/npttreaty.html
All permanent members of the UNSC got their chair because they possess nukes. When these nations signed the NPT, they agreed to halt nuclear weapon research and pledged to reduce and eliminate their nuclear arsenals.
Instead of respecting the NPT, these nations continued to research nuclear weapon technology. The US even threatened to nuke non-nuke nations in violation of the NPT.
Is it reasonable to expect Iran to halt its legal activities when the US routinely violates the NPT and Israel threatens Iran with its not so secret nukes?
The ripple effect is that Saudi Arabia probably has started a clandestine nuclear program as a result of strained relations with the US and fear of Iran.
I think people are cofusing the semantics of the NPT with the Gritty reality of it.
The Gritty reality of it, is that the NPT is designed to keep the big 5 on top, and that in exchange..the non-big five wouldn't be nuked into oblivion during a fight. You don't have nukes so we won't use them.
It has never been anything other than a control mechanism.
It is akin to a room with 200 people and 5 big guys with guns. They tell everyone..nobody had better try and get a gun, and as long as you don't we won't shoot you, even if we get in a fight.
There are flowery words and promises no one has any intention of keeping, but that is the long and the short of it.
Its kind of like how everyone says they don't engage in espionage, but no government worth its salt doesn't involve itself in the spy game.
The Gritty reality of it, is that the NPT is designed to keep the big 5 on top, and that in exchange..the non-big five wouldn't be nuked into oblivion during a fight. You don't have nukes so we won't use them.
It has never been anything other than a control mechanism.
It is akin to a room with 200 people and 5 big guys with guns. They tell everyone..nobody had better try and get a gun, and as long as you don't we won't shoot you, even if we get in a fight.
There are flowery words and promises no one has any intention of keeping, but that is the long and the short of it.
Its kind of like how everyone says they don't engage in espionage, but no government worth its salt doesn't involve itself in the spy game.
Iran's done a great job of hogging newsprint this year. I can only think 2007 will be a banner year for the upstart. Is it capable of nuclear technology in the near future? Certainly. Ten years is a ridiculous assumption. The rogue regime has contacts, lots of peer company, and oodles of cash. Good luck to us all!
If the US thought they had a tiger by the tail in Iraq wait until they set foot in Iran. That nation (while not ethnic Arabs) are truly dedicated to natuional unity and they'll never forget the US interference that resulted in the take down of Aga-Kahn in the '50's and the installation of the Shah. The atrocities that resulted went unprinted for the most part but the people who were victms have off spring and the stories still abound. The only difference between Iran and Iraq is that the oil system is better organizaed and still is controlled to some degree by wealthy European financiers. If the US thinks it has (although well concealed by the reports of the government) monetary problems now, wait until they launch a failed effort in Iran. It will make the debacle in Iraq look like school kids play stuff.
Israel has existed for thousands of years before Canada.
The only thing that has been "created" in the past sixty years is the "Palestinian".
We've torn apart your "backing up" of these facts numerous times in previous posts. If simply declaring war makes it OK to kill civilians, then be reminded that Israel has been officially in a state of war with Lebanon for decades.
Ahm-mad-on-jihad himslef said Iran will be a nuclear power by February. That may well be posturing, but it's entirely possible they have a prototype already. As stated, Iran has no shortage of financial resources.
That's the way I see it too.
Z, look at this from Iran's viewpoint.
Both the US and Israel have been openly hostile to Iran since Iran's revolution.
Israel is a nuclear threat.
The US threatens Iran regularly with regime change.
The US has a proven record of invading/occupying other nations based on false allegations.
The US violates Iranian airspace daily.
The US supports anti-Iranian insurgent groups.
The US attacked Iran directly during the 1980's.
The Iranians cannot rely on the American or Israeli goodwill.
Iran cannot rely on the UN or the UNSC.
Since Iranians can only rely on their military might for protection, they have no choice but to make it stronger.
If Iran had the ability to nuke any major American or Israeli city, the US and Israel would be forced to treat Iran differently. The US and Israel could no longer threaten Iran with invasion/occupation. Israel could not hit Iran with a pre-emptive nuclear strike, without recieving a nuclear strike. A nuclear Iran means Israel will no longer be able to threaten Iran's civilian population without Iran threatening to respond in kind. If Israel resorts to its nukes, so will Iran.... therefore Mutual Assured Destruction. Balance will replace today's imbalance.
Realistically, even if Iran has nukes, Iran still couldn't use them against Israel. Israel would nuke Iran right back. The threat from a nuclear Iran is that it changes the balance of power in the region away from Israel/US and toward Iran and its proxies.
When the US and Israel can no longer threaten Iran's civilian population without consequences to their own civilian populations, Iran will be able to fight a proxy war with Israel.
Given today's reality on the battlefield i.e. walls, tanks and attack helicopters are vulnerable to man portable RPGs and SAMs.
Given that Iran will soon have the ability to make SAMS which can take out aircraft at altitude.
That leaves missiles and drones as the only effective conventional weapons. In other words a more level battlefield.
As Iran's conventional military becomes more based on man portable munitions, it become less vulnerable to American conventional weapons.
As the US bogs down in Iraq, the US looses its ability to credibly threaten Iran's military.
I believe in non-violent means to settle disputes. I hope for peace. I used to believe that our leades could find a peaceful solution to the world's problems. But I don't see any world leader willing to make compromises in order to stop total war.
Israel is responsible for 4 million Palestinian refugees. 59 years of oppression and injustice must end. I doubt that will happen peacefully.
I am against killing innocent civilians. The US and Israel has killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people over the years. The reason they were able to do this is they knew their own civilian populations would not suffer similar casualty rates. These nations have too often resorted to war to get their way rather than seek a fair or just peace.
Therefore it is not wishful thinking but a realistic analysis of the facts which leads me to the conclusion that eventually Israel will be defeated militarily.
Eventually Israel will face waves of battle hardened militants unassociated with any specific country. They will be able to punch holes in walls, take out tanks and attack helicopters with RPGs. They will be able to shoot down aircraft with their SAMs. If they get SAMs near an airfield, no aircraft will be able to take off or land. Aircraft at altitude will be vulnerable to larger mobile SAM launchers.
Israel and the US will loose tanks and helicopters faster than they can replace them and their crews. Eventually the fighting will come down to soldier against soldier and Israel will be defeated.
In that scenario, many Israeli civilians will die. Others will loose their property to Palestinian refugees returning home.
Don't get me wrong. That's not a wish, but a prediction based on observation and analysis. That's why I have come to the conclusion that we should be evacuating civilians from Israel and the surrounding areas.
Palestinian refugees should be allowed to immigrate enmasse to the countries responsible for creating Israel, including Canada. That would reduce one factor contributing to war.
Israeli citizens should have special rights to immigrate to those same nations which created Israel and as a result are responsible for the coming total war. As it is now, Israelis have no where to flee. That gives them no choice but to fight to the death regardless of the consequences to the rest of mankind.
The Problem with that Earth as One, is that is the stupidest defense policy imaginable.
The joy of not having nukes means nukes won't be used on you. It doesn't mean you will win a fight, as you then just have to fight a conventional war with someone 10 times your size.
But Iran could do that defensivly, if not very well.
If they go nuclear, they are hosed. To go back to my men with guns analogy.
America is 50 men with machine guns (representing nukes), Iran is 12 guys without guns. The nuclear capability they could manage would be like giving them one revolver with three or four bullets in it.
Thus a fight with America goes from a fist fight where you end up being mobbed and beaten pretty bad, dishing out a few busted noses. To a gunfight where you all get murdered and if you are lucky, you might injure..on a miracle kill, one of the fifty americans.
I also don't get why you think Israeli citizens, born on Israeli land, should have to flee to some country other than the one of their birth.
Thats a little hypocritcal, should you be forced to flee to europe? Where you never lived? Because your ancestors did something wrong?
The joy of not having nukes means nukes won't be used on you. It doesn't mean you will win a fight, as you then just have to fight a conventional war with someone 10 times your size.
But Iran could do that defensivly, if not very well.
If they go nuclear, they are hosed. To go back to my men with guns analogy.
America is 50 men with machine guns (representing nukes), Iran is 12 guys without guns. The nuclear capability they could manage would be like giving them one revolver with three or four bullets in it.
Thus a fight with America goes from a fist fight where you end up being mobbed and beaten pretty bad, dishing out a few busted noses. To a gunfight where you all get murdered and if you are lucky, you might injure..on a miracle kill, one of the fifty americans.
I also don't get why you think Israeli citizens, born on Israeli land, should have to flee to some country other than the one of their birth.
Thats a little hypocritcal, should you be forced to flee to europe? Where you never lived? Because your ancestors did something wrong?
A fact Israel reminded the world about with its slaughter of thousands of innocent civilians in Lebanon including Canadians:
Even Israeli sources admit Hamas had largely respected its unilateral ceasefire:
Here's another perspective:
If Israel was interested in peace with Hamas, they would have kept their word to stop killing Palestinians when Hamas met the pre-conditions (whatever that means?) Sharon set for negotiation.
Want to trade civilian slaughter stories? I can point to far more stories about Israel's atrocities than the other way around:
Statistics Last Updated: December 14, 2006Israeli and Palestinian Children Killed Since September 29, 2000122 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 836 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000. (View Source)
Israelis and Palestinians Killed Since September 29, 2000
1,084 Israelis and 4,398 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000. (View Source)
Israelis and Palestinians Injured Since September 29, 20007,633 Israelis and 31,168 Palestinians have been injured since September 29, 2000. (View Source)
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
Israeli leaders have committed war crimes:
BBC
25 May, 2005
Amnesty slams Israel 'war crimes'
Most Palestinian casualties are unjustifiable, Amnesty says
Amnesty International has accused Israel of committing war crimes in the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip.
The rights group's report for 2004 says Israeli forces have killed some 700 Palestinians - including 150 children - mostly in unlawful circumstances.
The report lists "reckless shooting, shelling and air strikes in civilian areas... and excessive use of force".
It also condemns the killing of Israeli civilians by Palestinian militants and violence by Jewish settlers.
"Certain abuses committed by the Israeli army constituted crimes against humanity and war crimes," Amnesty's report says. "The deliberate targeting of civilians by Palestinian armed groups constituted crimes against humanity," it adds...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4580139.stm
If you want I can even post the gruesome details of Israel's bloodlust:
or you can watch this documentary:
The Killing Zone
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5863204188744026936