Important On-line poll everyone should vote

[Finder]

iamcanadian. as we have said before in past conversions. show me the proff! Most likely the judge which you tried to remove and you may feel that he/she should, you would need proff. And it isn't enough for you to dislike someone or write down your thoughts. You need something like video evidance or at least audeo tape to prove these type of things.

Besides that the election of judges xp sup-court judges is not a norm, and has always been a balance in society to the populer will of the mob to protect the minority.

 

[iamcanadian]

Countries that have appointed judges like Canada does are ones like Iran, North Korea and other dictatorships.

Every G8 Country has elected Judges except Canada.

 

[Finder]

Re: RE: Important On-line poll everyone should vote

Countries that have appointed judges like Canada does are ones like Iran, North Korea and other dictatorships.

Every G8 Country has elected Judges except Canada.

Well if you watched CNN at all you would have seen appointed Sup Court Judges, picked by George Bush JR and then approved by the Senate...


edit:
http://www.dca.gov.uk/consult/supremecourt/supreme.pdf
The UK a nation trying to remove the politicians from the courts, by having a new Supreme court where all the judges are appointed to help remove the doubt of politically motivated dessions by members of the privy council and the house of lords.

In other words removing the power of the legislative branch and the executive from judicial, and rightfully so, as the judicial acts as a check to the more populist and magority orinated latter.

As I stated before this isn't a government of the minority as the magority usually owns the Executive and legislative branches as in most Western nations (as I am excluding completely Communist, facist or military dictatorships) are completely run by the magority and rightfully so. Who is left to protect the minority from the magority? Well the courts and with a good constitution like that of Canada and the USA it gives the judges something to run off of. Supreme court judges in almost any western nation, Canada, the USA and so on do not have to worry about elections and do not have to pander to the magority as there job is not on the line every few years and protecting gay rights or "iamcanadian" rights as PC or something which the magority may not like but protects the minorities basic human rights.

 

[FiveParadox]

Of course Justices are immune once they have rendered a decision! Our Justice System would be a corrupt and partisan circus if our Puisne Justices on the Supreme Court of Canada were to think "I should rule this way, because it's the popular decision with Canadians, and that way I won't get in trouble!"

We need to ensure that our Justices feel safe to rule however the law would lead! It doesn't matter if the decision is unpopular, or if it may seem odd; if that's how the legislative measures they are charged to analyse work out, then that is how they should rule. Enough of this "rule according to common sense" nonsense; that isn't their job.

 

[Finder]

Anyhow "iamcanadian" as you can see this is common place in western democracies!

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/consultations/justice/jaia-13.asp



BTW even if we did elect them. Just because you don't like a judge, that would still be only one vote against him. I think you'd have less luck with elected judges as you do now.

 

[iamcanadian]

Being "immune from prosecution" is not the same thing as being incapable of being fired after making stupid or obvioulsy corrupt decisions based on the kinds of decision they make after they make them.

People have to live with Judicial Decisions as you say regardless of the consequences, but at the very least the Judge making bad decisions should be removable to stop them from making bad decisions in the future.

One of the main concerns lawyers have in this country is who the Judge will be. This is not something that should be a legitimate concern to people expecting justice from the system.

 

[Finder]

Re: RE: Important On-line poll everyone should vote

Of course Justices are immune once they have rendered a decision! Our Justice System would be a corrupt and partisan circus if our Puisne Justices on the Supreme Court of Canada were to think "I should rule this way, because it's the popular decision with Canadians, and that way I won't get in trouble!"

We need to ensure that our Justices feel safe to rule however the law would lead! It doesn't matter if the decision is unpopular, or if it may seem odd; if that's how the legislative measures they are charged to analyse work out, then that is how they should rule. Enough of this "rule according to common sense" nonsense; that isn't their job.

HERE HERE!!!!!
"I'm going to vote against (whatever) because all the right wing christine nut jobs in Albertaill vote for me because they disagree with (whatever)

 

[Finder]

Re: RE: Important On-line poll everyone should vote

Being "immune from prosecution" is not the same thing as being incapable of being fired after making stupid or obvioulsy corrupt decisions based on the kinds of decision they make after they make them.

People have to live with Judicial Decisions as you say regardless of the consequences, but at the very least the Judge making bad decisions should be removable to stop them from making bad decisions in the future.

Once of the main concerns lawyers have in this country is who the Judge will be. This is not something that should be a legitimate concern to people expecting justice from the system.

Gawd and electing judges will make this better?!!!!!! How.... So electing judges by plebicite and having these guys guys who are elected who are against this or that or for this or that!!!! jesus thats makes it 1000000% times worse. You will have left wing judges from Ontario elected and Extreme right wing facsists from alberta elected!!!!!

 

[TenPenny]

Re: RE: Important On-line poll everyone should vote

Fired, forcefully removed from being a Judge because of bad decisions that where rendered illegitimately for personal or political gain, etc. - At any level of Court

So now you're referring to judges that made decisions that you don't agree with.

Now I understand.

And you're claiming that Canada is the only G8 country that appoints judges? Where do you get your facts? I assume you pull them out of thin air, because they certainly don't have any connection to reality.

 

[iamcanadian]

Democracy means rule by the majority.

The rights of minorities should always properly take a back seat to the rights of the majority when they conflict.

To have otherwise makes some people more equal than others by belonging to a more vocal minority group.

 

[FiveParadox]

iamcanadian, the opinion of the majority doesn't mean anything in the Supreme Court when it opposes the law; our Constitution recognizes the supremacy of law, not the supremacy of the majority. Moreover, the rights of the majority have never been restricted by a decision of the Supreme Court that I can think of — would you care to bring one to my attention, if I am in fact mistaken?

 

[TenPenny]

Re: RE: Important On-line poll everyone should vote

Democracy means rule by the majority.

The rights of minorities should always properly take a back seat to the rights of the majority when they conflict.

To have otherwise makes some people more equal than others by belonging to a more vocal minority group.

Right on. And if the majority, say the white folk, decide that the rights of the minority, say the black folk, don't count, then that's that.

Absolutely. Welcome to the 18th century, where life is good, and everyone is happy.

You are such an idiot.

 

[iamcanadian]

The majority make the law by electing representatives democratically to write laws. You then like the idea of a group of people that are free to undermine the written laws without personal consequences or even being removed from doing it even when it is found to be abused.

BTW, why do you believe that the Canadian system is better, when it more closely resembles Iran and North Korea and is the oposite of all of the other G8 countries that all have "Elected Justices" in one form or another.

 

[TenPenny]

Well, the Canadian system evolved from that one, where is it, oh yes BRITAIN, where judges aren't elected, they are appointed. By the PM.

Do some research, you idiot. You keep making claims that are absolutely crap. Judges in China are elected. So they must be perfect, right?

Stop making assinine comparisons that don't hold water, while stating blatantly incorrect facts.

 

[FiveParadox]

Quite frankly, I don't give a damn whether or not our Justice System appears to "mimick" those of other countries in your own opinion. Even if North Korea used the exact same method of appointing Justices as does Canada, I would not care; our system works for us. If there are abuses happening in North Korea with their Justices, then to be frank, that's their problem — we should not have to change our system because their system doesn't work adequately.

Yes, Justices here in Canada are appointed by the Prime Minister; however, despite the fact that our current Prime Minister is the Right Honourable Stephen Harper, the Leader of the Conservative Party (a party whose endeavours I oppose, in aggregate majority), I would assert that his nomination of the Honourable Justice Marshall Rothstein as a Puisne Justice of the Supreme Court of Canada, was a good choice — there was scrutiny of the appointment (as there has been for the past decades; protected, behind-the-scenes processes ensure the integrity of nominees to the Bench).

Your comparisons don't hold water.

:!: Edit : Resolved a formatting error.

 

[iamcanadian]

"protected, behind-the-scenes processes ensure the integrity of nominees to the Bench"

How can a "protected, behind-the-schenes-process" be used in the same sentence with "integrity".

You have to have a lot of faith in people being good by nature.

In Canada specifically we also have a related agravating condition which few people are aaware of.

Our Judges are selected from the Lawyer Professional group. This is also different from many of the better countries that have Judges educated sepaarately to be Judges as a profession of its own.

When you add to this that the Lawyer Profession is managed by a Private Self-regulating Society of Professionals there is a fundamental condition created that allows the legal profession to rule the Country by interpreting laws and rules of Civil Proceedures in their interests and against the public interest generally speaking, regardless what laws the elected representatives of the people vote in acting as the majority will of the population.

Canada is pretty messed up as far as the laws and application of laws and the only Integrity that is certain it the one expressed as a matter of simple Faith in people's good will.

Finally lawyers are not the profession that most average members of the population associate with honour or integrity.

 

[iamcanadian]

Re: RE: Important On-line poll everyone should vote

Judges in China are elected. So they must be perfect, right?

Actually China has one of the most reliable and uniform application of laws and justice.

A public official in China will be hanged for committing an act of corruption as easliy as an average citizen committinig a similar level high crime.

In Canada, a public official will get ordered to do community service or speaking engagements for the same and even bigger fraud that a private citizen gets 40 years in prison for.

Don't confuse application of justice with a people's political ideology. China has a better more reliable Justice system than Canada does where all people know where they stand and what the consequences are.

 

[TenPenny]

Re: RE: Important On-line poll everyone should vote

Judges in China are elected. So they must be perfect, right?

Actually China has one of the most reliable and uniform application of laws and justice.

A public official in China will be hanged for committing an act of corruption as easliy as an average citizen committinig a similar level high crime.

In Canada, a public official will get ordered to do community service or speaking engagements for the same and even bigger fraud that a private citizen gets 40 years in prison for.

Don't confuse application of justice with a people's political ideology. China has a better more reliable Justice system than Canada does where all people know where they stand and what the consequences are.

So now you're conveniently forgetting that you claim Canada is the only member of the G8 that appoints judges, and at the same time you're suggesting that China has a better, more reliable Justice system?

You're serious, aren't you?
On the one hand, you're claiming facts that are easily proven incorrect, on the other you're stating an opinion that is quite easily proven wrongheaded by those of us who have been to China and spoken with people, AS I HAVE.

Your credibility score is 0 for 2. Have a nice day.

 

[zoofer]

Democracy in action

Quick. The link won't be up for long.

 

[iamcanadian]

Democracy in action

Quick. The link won't be up for long.

With all the Canadian law students on this board you may be right.

Law School first removes any common sense in their heads and then fills them with a lot of hot air about the integrity of the world's second oldest profession.