Hundreds of Natives assert their land claim rights

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

While I have no issue with righting a wrong imposed on the Native people of Canada I am aghast that no one is willing to ask one question. "When will the debt be paid? "Our childrens generation? Our great Grandchildren? Never?
When?

Food for thought.
M

 

[zoofer]

Why not set up blockades to keep them out of the ROC?

At 10 billion a year the taxpayer has paid land claims many times over IMO.
Forget these Bantustans. Divide the land between individuals of the Band. Theirs to keep or sell. Forget about this racist First Nations thingy. Everyone is First Nations, no 2nd, 3rd or 4th nations as First implies. Forget PC. Disband the Dept of Indian Affairs. Move settlements in the bush into cities if they so wish rather than move power plants and water refineries, schools, hospitals and industry into every small native village.
Give every Indian as of today, not one who is 1/16th Indian blood, a free university education if they choose one. Then scrap the whole mess. They are Joe Canadian, same as everyone else.
(The joys of multicult! :roll: )

 

[Laika]

Again, the right to peaceful protest ends where it violates the rights and safety of other citizens. Those who damage property or hurt others are not participating in the principles of peace and negotiation with which our forefathers and the signatories of the treaties agreed to and insisted upon. I am not excusing their behavior.

But if we are going to slap the criminal label on the protestors, let's drop the double standard and consider the issue of illegal occupation of disputed lands.

When will the debt be paid? When the spirit and intent of a legally binding agreement between two sovereign nations has been fulfilled.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Re: RE: Hundreds of Natives assert their land claim rights

Again, the right to peaceful protest ends where it violates the rights and safety of other citizens. Those who damage property or hurt others are not participating in the principles of peace and negotiation with which our forefathers and the signatories of the treaties agreed to and insisted upon. I am not excusing their behavior.

But if we are going to slap the criminal label on the protestors, let's drop the double standard and consider the issue of illegal occupation of disputed lands.

When will the debt be paid? When the spirit and intent of a legally binding agreement between two sovereign nations has been fulfilled.

These Criminals Hijacked this protest and in doing that buried all the points you have stated because the Criminal Acts will gain more attention then the issues.

This happens in every kind of protest where you have Criminals Hijacking the protest for their own agendas etc.

 

[Laika]

Then we must agree to disagree. Thank you for sharing your point of view, it is always helpful to gain insight to another perspective.

However, hammering the "criminal" point home does not support your arguement, if anything it is distracting from your message as it gives one the impression that you are more interested in name-calling and finger-pointing than discussing the issues at hand.

 

[pastafarian]

Well then since tying up courts with disputes about who owns what is so fun...I think I will stage a little protest of my own in the development near my house.

Best of luck with that, jay!!!!

 

[Jay]

:lol:

Ya...I think I'll just stay home.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Re: RE: Hundreds of Natives assert their land claim rights

Then we must agree to disagree. Thank you for sharing your point of view, it is always helpful to gain insight to another perspective.

However, hammering the "criminal" point home does not support your arguement, if anything it is distracting from your message as it gives one the impression that you are more interested in name-calling and finger-pointing than discussing the issues at hand.

Look at it like this, when you watch the media coverage of this protest what get's more coverage? The Criminal Acts or The Issues at hand? The Answer would be the Criminal Acts because that is what these Criminals want which is why they Hijacked this protest for their own agenda. They could care less about the issues behind the protest because all they care about is causing mayhem and chaos.

 

[Jay]

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/04/21/caledonia-friday.html

CN Rail gets injunction ordering natives off tracks

Mohawks from a reserve in eastern Ontario had stopped at least a dozen freight trains and disrupted Via Rail passenger service. The move was in support of natives who are staging a protest at a construction site in in Caledonia, about 90 kilometres southwest of Toronto.

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: Hundreds of Natives assert their land claim rights

Peaceful demonstrations and protests are an exercise in free speech and expression and do have the benefit of focussing attention on issues.

I believe in peaceful coexistence and respectful negotiation, but I also believe it is well within any citizen's right to demonstrate as long as they do not impinge on the rights or safety of other citizens.

Absolutely!

However, the occupation of private property, the blocading for days of public highways, and the defiance of court injunction can not be tolerated indefinitely.

The native band SOLD this land in 1841.

End of story.

 

[Colpy]

Well then since tying up courts with disputes about who owns what is so fun...I think I will stage a little protest of my own in the development near my house.

Best of luck with that, jay!!!!

Hell, in 1960 my Grandfather sold the old homestead, on which my family had started making maple sugar as early as 1815.

I don't think he got a fair price for it.

Shall I occupy the farm there now, prevent the current squatter (the guy with the deed) from carrying on his business, all with impunity?

I Think Not.

BTW, Hi ITN.

 

[Laika]

This thread is getting petty and I will not respond in kind as it is disrespectful and far beneath me. Have fun, guys, I am glad we shared our thoughts on this matter.

In memory of Big Bear, Poundmaker, and Piapot; I am humbled.

 

[nelk]

Years of liberal government (and some tory years as well) have not dealt with issues straight forward ,honest and assertive.

No directions /goals, the hallmark of neoliberalism; just grease the squicky wheel, patch up the problems in the hope they will disappear.
No they won't !

Governments have been forwarding this dilemma to the next generation and the next....someone got to pay the piper!
If it is not me and you than the our kids etc.But...

Quiet frankly I dont think I / we owe anything (indirect through taxes); all I possess was purchased and paid for ;no grants , no special deals etc, no major land and resource holdings to develop (the west,railroad etc).

Just one of the many immigrants to break the land and fill the land with taxpayers and to consume the stuff sold to us.

Where are the "old money"s, the lumberbarons, the big trading companies, the royal scum sent over to collect and skim off,
the profiteers of all description?

From earlier days to todays "Globals" Canada has been a haven for those. But when the going gets tough, they are not spoken off.

John and Jane Doe you get the bill; it is politically correct ! LOL

Canada (Govnmt. and private agencies) right now organise work and jobfairs in Europe and still advertise with gusto where ever some immigrants can be attracted to fill the (low) ranks.

If I would be a First Nation member, I would raise hell!

How many Natives have been relegated to the rank of druggys,
crasy living conditions, chronic unemployment and welfare lifestyle.
A whole nation sidelined into uselessness.
Of course exceptions prove the "rule"

Again our Government has no goal ,direction and clear plan and the guts to cut this gordic knot .

Managing the problem not solving; lets see how this incident is being handled!

 

[Johnny Utah]

Years of liberal government (and some tory years as well) have not dealt with issues straight forward ,honest and assertive.

No directions /goals, the hallmark of neoliberalism; just grease the squicky wheel, patch up the problems in the hope they will disappear.
No they won't !

Governments have been forwarding this dilemma to the next generation and the next....someone got to pay the piper!
If it is not me and you than the our kids etc.But...

Quiet frankly I dont think I / we owe anything (indirect through taxes); all I possess was purchased and paid for ;no grants , no special deals etc, no major land and resource holdings to develop (the west,railroad etc).

Just one of the many immigrants to break the land and fill the land with taxpayers and to consume the stuff sold to us.

Where are the "old money"s, the lumberbarons, the big trading companies, the royal scum sent over to collect and skim off,
the profiteers of all description?

From earlier days to todays "Globals" Canada has been a haven for those. But when the going gets tough, they are not spoken off.

John and Jane Doe you get the bill; it is politically correct ! LOL

Canada (Govnmt. and private agencies) right now organise work and jobfairs in Europe and still advertise with gusto where ever some immigrants can be attracted to fill the (low) ranks.

If I would be a First Nation member, I would raise hell!

How many Natives have been relegated to the rank of druggys,
crasy living conditions, chronic unemployment and welfare lifestyle.
A whole nation sidelined into uselessness.
Of course exceptions prove the "rule"

Again our Government has no goal ,direction and clear plan and the guts to cut this gordic knot .

Managing the problem not solving; lets see how this incident is being handled!

Would you agree Natives in Canada have been kept down by always having to depend on the Federal Government their entire lives one way or another? The fact they know every year they will receieve at least 7 Billion a year gives them no drive to better themselves because they can always depend on the Federal Government and in doing that it has hurt them.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Re: RE: Hundreds of Natives assert their land claim rights

This thread is getting petty and I will not respond in kind as it is disrespectful and far beneath me. Have fun, guys, I am glad we shared our thoughts on this matter.

In memory of Big Bear, Poundmaker, and Piapot; I am humbled.

How is this thread becoming petty? :?:

 

[nelk]

Johnny Utah wrote
Would you agree Natives in Canada have been kept down by always having to depend on the Federal Government their entire lives one way or another? The fact they know every year they will receieve at least 7 Billion a year gives them no drive to better themselves because they can always depend on the Federal Government and in doing that it has hurt them.

Affirmative no question about it.
I should know, worked very close to DINA

 

[Laika]

RE: Hundreds of Natives a

"The fact they know every year they will receieve at least 7 Billion a year gives them no drive to better themselves because they can always depend on the Federal Government and in doing that it has hurt them."

That is an unfair generalization. In essence, the point of this demonstration an attempt to better their lives.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Re: RE: Hundreds of Natives a

"The fact they know every year they will receieve at least 7 Billion a year gives them no drive to better themselves because they can always depend on the Federal Government and in doing that it has hurt them."

That is an unfair generalization. In essence, the point of this demonstration an attempt to better their lives.

Here lies the problem, the point of the demonstration is to better their lives but the Criminal Acts by the Criminals of starting Fires and attack Police Officers takes away the point of the demonstration because now all you see are the Criminals committing Criminal Acts.

 

[iamcanadian]

Better that people protest this way in Caledonia than the way a 67 year old man protested last week in the Town of Caledon, not too far away, by dousing himself with gasoline and setting himself ablaze inside Caledon Town Hall in protest against corrupt government activities going on there.

 

[Laika]

Re: RE: Hundreds of Natives a

Here lies the problem, the point of the Criminal demonstration is to better their lives of Crime but the Criminal Acts by the Criminals of starting Criminal Fires and attack Police Officers takes away the point of the Criminal demonstration because now all you see are the Criminals committing Criminal Acts that are Crimes.

Fixed that for ya. :lol: