Horrendous sanitary conditions in northern Manitoba
- Thread starter JLM
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If it is that easy to do, how come a multi million dollar mining company such as debeers which is in the area and takes into account every detail in the cost of operating its mine hasnt done this already??? Saving money in a mine is the best thing for it...If it were that easy there would already be a permenant road to this part of Northern Ontario... Its easy to point on the map and say thats the way were going to do it, but when you actually get out there the reality of the situation comes into play... Have you ever been farther than hearst can i ask?
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Or maybe an all weather road,ice roads actually work well in an environment that only has 4 months of summer,the lakes become highways during the winter and the route is usually as the crow flys.
But there will be roads all over the north soon as the exploration mines start turning into producers.The one thing holding them back is no roads and lots of these mining companies are waiting for the govt. to build these roads and deep sea ports.The north will explode in development as soon as there is good access all year and a way to ship bulk ore.
The exploration site I was at this year consisted of 3 properties and one got sold(Hackett river) that was the closest to Bathurst inlet as they know it's only a matter of time before a road and port is built,once that happens you will see gold,silver,zinc,platinum,uranium and diamond mines sprout up all over the place.There are hundreds of exploration drilling camps in the north that have been drilling for over 30 years,they know whats in the ground and it's just a matter of time.
This is Canada's last frontier,it will be exploited very soon and the jobs that will come will be good for all of Canada and better for the north.
Building roads wont be as much of a challenge as maintaining it in winter though,for 108 kilometers at meadowbank to baker you have to run 2 graders or plow trucks steady and a survival shack every ten kliks,a ground blizzard off Hudsons bay can ground you in an instant for ten days straight.Nothing moves in one of those.
I imagine a railroad would hold the same challenge,building it would be easy,keeping it going in the winter wouldnt.
The north has the resources to be very rich and self sufficient soon.
Most of these companies are waiting for the government to build them,Debeers is one of the worst outfits in the north IMO.
BIPAR is good,hope it go's through and fu*k debeers,they can go back to exploiting Africa.
NunatsiaqOnline 2011-06-02: NEWS: Xstrata enters Nunavut with purchase of Hackett River properties
I was contracting for Sabina gold this year.
The very first thing any camp will build is an airstrip,they dont need it as northern otter pilots can land anywhere but it shows the investors flying in that you have the means to transport out ore.
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I'd want to look into the logistics of that too. Is there enough product going in and out to justify running three or fours trains a day with 100 cars? Railway alignment both vertical and horizontal is much more constrictive than roads grades - vertically about 1.6% vs. 12-14% for roads. Horizontally about 1000 m radius compared to 100 m radius for roads.
It would make more sense to build a road from the existing railhead, but this would involve the people actually being interested in doing so.
From what I can gather, it would take some people with the desire to make it happen, as opposed to people with the desire to do nothing and assume someone else will take care of them.
On 'cross country checkup' tonight, I heard someone who is involved in the process mentioning that the expected lifespan of a house there is 5 to 8 years. There's something wrong with that, and until that's figured out, there's no point in building more houses.
From what I can gather, it would take some people with the desire to make it happen, as opposed to people with the desire to do nothing and assume someone else will take care of them.
On 'cross country checkup' tonight, I heard someone who is involved in the process mentioning that the expected lifespan of a house there is 5 to 8 years. There's something wrong with that, and until that's figured out, there's no point in building more houses.
I think your right,where a railway ROW needs a gentle slope a road wouldnt and could get away with 8 or 10% grade.
One thing you dont want to do in that country is dig into permafrost,you build on top all the time on frozen muskeg or permafrost.
So theres no cutting off hilltops or cutting sidehills into slopes,once you take the top layer of insulating grass off muskeg or permafrost it will only take ten minutes of sunshine on the black dirt to start a process of melting you wont be able to stop without filter cloth and an insulating cover and a lot of man hours.
Theres a very delicate balance up there,anything man does will show up for years and years,our footprint is huge,just the fact that theres winter wheat growing at most camps shows workers have introduced a non native species from the seeds on their footwear.
Any work you do in the north has it's due diligence and that means any species that is disrupted will be replaced or have equal or better habitat made for that species somewhere else close.
A roads doable,I have been doing this **** all my life all over western and northern Canada,the logistics are horrible but also not bad if you know enough peeps.
Thats half the costs of doing a road job in the north is getting the equipment and supplies up,usually by barge a year earlier,nothing moves fast in the north.
From a construction point of view a road would need minimum 1.5(to be safe) meters of rock fill,about 8 fifty tonne rock trucks to haul it,2 loaders to load them,2 big excavators for stripping,2 fuel trucks,a crusher capable of breaking rose granite,a turn around for the trucks at the front of the road because the mines act states you cant back a truck up more then 100 meters so every 100 meters you waste 10 loads of rock for the turn around.
Theres so many lakes in northern Ontario and it just gets to be nothing but lakes the farther north you fly,thats the challenge is getting around them for any roadwork.Thats why it takes a 108 kilometers of road to get to a place 30 miles away as the crow flies.
We need some deep sea ports in the north,that would get mines running and maybe get some of our forces up there on a couple bases near the ports to show we are in the north Russia so fu*k off!
Allmost every exploration camp I have been in the last 3 years I have been able to see the gold in the core samples without a glass.
The Canadian shield is loaded with gold and precious metals.
It's a beautifull country though,I allways had a"blast" in the far north.Especially filming the blasters diving under a 50 tonne rock truck to avoid the incoming shrapnel.blasting at meadowbank - YouTube
1.8 isnt that steep and 4% is steeper.Untill the mines want to pony up to help out the communities who's land they are taking resources from then Debeers is as guilty as the government. I'm curious to how much profit they take out of their diamond mine and send back to Europe compared to how much they put into the place they are making all their profit from?
I was at meadowbank from final exploration stage untill a full blown mine was running and the Quebec company Agnico Eagle is loved by the communities of Baker lake,Rankin inlet,Whale cove,Chesterfield inlet etc as the peeps from these communities all have good paying jobs there.
The other properties I worked on are also getting incorporated into the mine plans,Nunavut will be a world leader in resource production soon if we can ever get access in there and some infrastructure.
If all the companies that have claims in the north agreed to put 2% out of their exploration budget into a viability study to some all weather roads in the north then I think it would get some momentum to get this done,everyones waiting for the government though to put some dollars out there.
I'm all for opening up the north with taxpayers dollars but only if we get 10% back on royalties every year on every mine once they produce their first gold or silver bar.
When I first went to the arctic it was a small camp and my cook was named Dianne from Saskatchewan,she was the cook for the famous diamond explorer Charles E. Fipke when he first discovered diamonds in the territories and is featured in the book the barrenlands.
Barren Lands, by Kevin Krajick
I spent many years with her in Camps and she told me many stories about Charlie,she was with him for many months cooking and never knew what he was exploring for the first 3 months but debeers was allways one step behind him and it used to drive Charlie nuts.
He had a pilots licence and would take the heli in to Yellowknife for beer on occasion.
Dianne was famous as a cook,we had 3 helis a day coming in for lunch when they knew she was there.
The reason I like a railroad extention, is that it would immediately help the people in Attawapiskat. I know it
would be expensive but it is by far the best alternative to moving the community. Of course there is the time
it would take to finish the rail line........I can only guess how long it might take, and the cost of those bridges
might put the kybosh on the whole thing.
would be expensive but it is by far the best alternative to moving the community. Of course there is the time
it would take to finish the rail line........I can only guess how long it might take, and the cost of those bridges
might put the kybosh on the whole thing.
Ive done surveys in the area and there isnt much solid ground to anchor the bridges on in the area, when i say the area is full of loon **** i mean it. In one area 80km north of the reserve we found that the minumum depth of the muskeg to the limestone which was the bottam of that area was 20m..... Im not a certified engineer but thats alot to be filling....
Wouldn't it just be easier and cheaper to build them a modern sanitation facility and a fresh water plant? Yes the Canadian Government should pay for it with taxs from the general fund.
Absolutely but not the biggest problem. Amount of material to move is #1 and satisfying agencies like environment, fisheries, archiological etc. is #2.
That might address the water problem, only one of several problems. Just imagine the amount of energy wasted trying to heat improperly insulated old shacks.
Even if the government did that, ironsides, the community would still be faced with chronic unemployment which for me, once the 'crisis' is over, is the number one problem that needs to be addressed.
As a P.S. to a post way back, the distance from Moosonee to Attawapiskat is about 200 miles according to my map!
More jobs of course would be a better long term solution, but that does not solve the immediate situation. How much would it cost to upgrade or build them a small 4 room house?
They are members of the "First Nations", and should be given what ever they need to live comfortably. You cannot just force them to move again. What ever the decision, it should be theirs.
They are members of the "First Nations", and should be given what ever they need to live comfortably. You cannot just force them to move again. What ever the decision, it should be theirs.
Good plan, we'll just build more and more houses for them every few years, and as long as they are comfortable, great. How long does this go on for?