Gunman opens fire at U.S. church, kills two

[Praxius]

So, we have a Canadian "right to bear arms" mentality? Or have you forgotten Dawson College, the Ottawa bus station, the Montreal Massacre, the Alberta school shootings......

Check the ratio. Apparently the laws we have do a lot better then handing them out with a bottle of whiskey.

Even more to the point, you ever pay attention to Israel, where twice this month civilians carrying guns killed aggressors before they could inflict serious damage?

Probably because Israel is a police state from the get go, everybody who lives there has to serve in the military.... and considdering all that, it's not suprising. Not to mention that they all have military training, I would trust them with guns over some random idiot like this guy, or like those kids in the schools, or the infinite fueling of the gangs in the minority neighborhoods to help keep them down, along with lack of services and actual justice.

Yes, what is it so far? Two school shootings in like forever, and very few mass shootings in public areas for what I can remember in recent history in Canada.

More population you say? More guns in the US with more people compared to Canada, more chance for more violence and gun related crimes such as these. Remove the guns or at the very least control them a hell of a lot better, and you reduce the problems.

Already we are hearing reports that US roads are having record low fatality rates due to less people driving, due to more expensive gas..... supply - demand - results.

Remove the supply of guns, and you reduce the amount of guns criminals can get. Reduce their supplies, increase the police's chances of taking them down before they can properly defend themselves. So on and so forth.

Did you know at least three school shootings in the USA have been stopped by armed civilians?

Who cares? How many school and mass shootings have there been? Why?

Did you know Americans use firearms to defend themselves almost 2 million times each year?

Do you know that most common sense would say there's something wrong with that? Sounds like a friggin war zone if you ask me.

Almost always without firing a shot. Did you know Canadians use firearms to defend themselves about 70,000 times a year? Usually without firing a shot.

Usually from bears.

The problem is not the right to keep and bear arms........it is the unfortunate fact that there are places that either ban the carrying of weapons (Virginia Tech, now there's a successful policy) or places where people simply don't....like the Unitarian Church.

Nobody shot the guy, nor do I suspect anybody checked him at the door to see if he was carrying a shotgun. What's you're point?

 

[Praxius]

It happens every week? I wasn't aware. Population wise that would be interesting to see if it happens more than 10 times as often in the US (as their pop is 10 times ours, all things considered there should be 10 times the incidents).

Or would it be like britain where tough gun laws just increased knife crime?

Guns are not dangerous in the hands of a competant adult whom you would entrust with a vote.

If you wouldn't trust people with a gun without training, why would you trust a guy like that with a vote (he can do alot of damage if he ever elected someone who supports murdering homosexuals)

That's what civil wars are for. Not to mention other countries to possibly step in to stop a genocide.

 

[Praxius]

I count 16 cases in this article regarding Canada. Considering the US has a more dense population, and almost 10 times the people, I don't think we're 'better' when it comes to the death toll.

I'll still take my chances with the laws we have at the moment, thank ya ;-)

 

[Praxius]

A child is more apt to drown in a swimming pool.

Fact.

I suppose those monsters that own swimming pools.........NAW....they might be good liberal democrats.

And old farts can drown in a couple of inches of water... ban those evil bathtubs.... geez.

Oh.... Fact.

 

[karrie]

I'll still take my chances with the laws we have at the moment, thank ya ;-)

I like my laws just fine too.

Doesn't mean I need to go hacking on other peoples' with bad arguments though.

 

[lone wolf]

...I would trust them with guns over some random idiot like this guy,...

Jim D. Adkisson, 58, was 18 at the time of the draft so chances are this "random idiot" has has military training and has probably done his thirteen months and four days in Vietnam too....

 

[Risus]

Risus.....that ain't 40, and you started in 1857 fer God's sakes.

You can't be serious.

Karrie, thank you for the list.

Colpy I guess you can't count as well as can't abmit when you are wrong... there were 51 there.

The whole point was you open your mouth with unsubstantiated crap and ignore facts.

That was only a partial list by the way...

 

[Praxius]

I like my laws just fine too.

Doesn't mean I need to go hacking on other peoples' with bad arguments though.

*Shrugs* well that's life..... we all can't be perfect all the time you know.

 

[Praxius]

Jim D. Adkisson, 58, was 18 at the time of the draft so chances are this "random idiot" has has military training and has probably done his thirteen months and four days in Vietnam too....

Chances are indeed.... he could have been drafted. And he could have took off and avoided it. He could have also had some medical condition opting him from service..... he could have been all kinds of things like mentally unfit to serve. However none of that is fact now is it, nor does it help one side of the argument or the other at this point in time.

All I'm saying is if someone is going to be handed something designed to kill, then give them some proper training.... and perhaps give them a psyc test to at least see if there is some sort of risk to other people when it comes to how they deal with situations in their lives. I don't see how that can hurt.

 

[EagleSmack]

It happens every week? I wasn't aware. Population wise that would be interesting to see if it happens more than 10 times as often in the US (as their pop is 10 times ours, all things considered there should be 10 times the incidents).

Or would it be like britain where tough gun laws just increased knife crime?

Guns are not dangerous in the hands of a competant adult whom you would entrust with a vote.

If you wouldn't trust people with a gun without training, why would you trust a guy like that with a vote (he can do alot of damage if he ever elected someone who supports murdering homosexuals)

I wasn't aware it happened every week either. I guess when confronted with facts he resorts to making things up. Typical.

 

[Praxius]

I wasn't aware it happened every week either. I guess when confronted with facts he resorts to making things up. Typical.

Hmmm...

April 16, 2007 - Virginia Tech, a university in Blacksburg, Virginia, became the site of the deadliest rampage in U.S. history when a gunman killed 32 people and himself.

December 5, 2007 - A gunman opened fire in a shopping mall in Omaha, Nebraska, killing eight people and wounding five, before fatally shooting himself, police said.

December 9, 2007 - A Colorado man shot dead four people at a Christian missionary training center and a church, then died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound after the rampage.

February 2, 2008 - Five women were shot dead in a clothing store at a suburban Chicago shopping center in what police said appeared to be a botched robbery.

Feb 7, 2008 - A gunman killed two police officers and three city officials when he stormed a city council meeting in a St. Louis suburb. The gunman was later shot dead by police.

February 8, 2008 - A nursing student fatally shot two women and killed herself in front of classmates at Louisiana Technical College in the state capital, Baton Rouge.

February 14, 2008 - A man fired into a lecture hall packed with students at Northern Illinois University, killing five people and wounding 18 before shooting himself dead.

June 25, 2008 - A worker at a plastics plant in Kentucky shot and killed five people inside the factory and wounded a sixth before killing himself.

and of course this one in post #1..... so as it goes for mass shootings, I suppose I stand corrected, that it's not every week.... but I wonder what the rate is for other shootings besides mass shootings.

 

[Praxius]

Oops, silly me, I almost forgot about this one:

Arrest made in Phoenix community college shooting
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/news/75752-arrest-made-phoenix-community-college.html

The list above seems to be missing some.

 

[EagleSmack]

Yes...silly you. We are a large nation with a large population and a lot of guns. I would imagine that many of those doing the killings have illegal guns. Sure there are some that are legal but that is the way it is.

But it is funny how one can say...every week...just to make their point even though it is baseless.

 

[EagleSmack]

Just a quick search...Triple Murder in Canada... well at least he didn't do it with a gun because that is worse. He only tied and beat them to death...

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2008/06/24/murder-reward.html

Murder by gun...bad.
Bound and beat to death... well it's Canada so it is not so bad. :roll:

 

[EagleSmack]

This one was only raped and stabbed and beaten...that's not so bad as a gun wasn't used...



Woman found guilty of 2nd-degree murder in Courtepatte slaying

Last Updated: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 | 12:36 PM MT Comments24Recommend32

CBC News


A 19-year-old Edmonton woman was found guilty Tuesday of second-degree murder in the slaying of Nina Courtepatte, 13.

Nina Courtepatte's body was found on an Edmonton golf course in April 2005. (CBC News) The woman, who cannot be named because she was a youth at the time of the crime, was also found guilty in an Edmonton court of aggravated sexual assault. She was acquitted on a charge of kidnapping.
Courtepatte's bruised and bloody body was found on a golf course west of Edmonton in April 2005. She had been raped, stabbed and then bludgeoned to death.
The woman, who showed no emotion while Judge Adam Germain delivered his verdict, is the fifth person to be tried in the killing of the Edmonton girl.
The judge said it was a difficult trial with many unreliable witnesses, including people who were already convicted in the case.
While Germain said many witnesses lied under oath, he added that many gave similar evidence about the role of the accused in the killing.
The young woman's defence was that she had just met people in the group responsible for luring Courtepatte from the West Edmonton Mall, and that she did not know about a plan to capture and kill someone.
The judge accepted there was no evidence to show the accused was involved in the planning of Courtepatte's killing, which was why she was cleared of first-degree murder. But he believed that she struck Courtepatte in the throat with a knife.
"Once they got to the golf course, the accused went from bystander to something else," the judge said. "In the killing frenzy that occurred after the sexual assault, the accused joined in with a knife."
While the judge ruled that the woman likely didn't strike the fatal blow, he called her actions part of a group assault on a victim who was lying on the ground.
The judge said the woman put her foot on Courtepatte's stomach to hold her down while another person tried to hit the girl with a sledgehammer in the crotch area. This, he ruled, made the accused guilty of aggravated sexual assault.
Sentencing arguments will be heard on Sept. 5.
Two people, Joseph Laboucan and Michael Williams, 20, are serving life sentences for first-degree murder. Stephanie Bird, 20, is serving a 12-year sentence for kidnapping, aggravated sexual assault and manslaughter, while another man, Michael Briscoe, was acquitted.
The Crown is appealing Briscoe's acquittal.

 

[Zzarchov]

Oh yeah, how silly of me, one just eliminates the other right?
And, what on earth has this to do with politics!!!
The comparison makes no sense, two wrongs don't make a right, lets get on the
swimming pool thing too, 'without the sarcasm', a child's life is worth more than that.

Its an apt point to make. There is alot of politcal cries against popular evils that people say are killing children left and right. And because everyone focuses on them, no one focuses on anything to actually save lies.

Why do children have to die so someone can get elected on an anti-gun platform, just because its sexier and easier to use than an anti-pool platform.

Why did it take so much longer to get fences around pools to be mandatory?

Because telling voters "Your too stupid to own a pool" in the summer heat doesn't go down well.


Parents don't let their children walk the anywhere or go on their own free time. They drive their kids around from secure location to secure location worried about potential snatchers.

Statistically this kills more children than it saves as car crashes are more likely to kill your kid than a predator.

Does that mean that laws to keep guns from kids and predators off the street aren't needed? Obviously they laws are still needed! The point is perspective and making sure that you don't ignore "boring" ways to save kids for more high profile causes. Children don't deserve to die just because they die in a "boring" way.

 

[Praxius]

Yes...silly you. We are a large nation with a large population and a lot of guns. I would imagine that many of those doing the killings have illegal guns. Sure there are some that are legal but that is the way it is.

And shrugging your shoulders and just accepting it as a way of life sure is a great solution.... but hey, so long as you don't see a problem, who am I to argue? :-?

But it is funny how one can say...every week...just to make their point even though it is baseless.

Base this:

Statistics: Gun Violence in Our Communities
http://www.neahin.org/programs/schoolsafety/gunsafety/statistics.htm

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]America and Gun Violence [/FONT]

• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Every day, more than 80 Americans die from gun violence. (Coalition to Stop Gun Violence) [/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) [/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]American kids are 16 times more likely to be murdered with a gun, 11 times more likely to commit suicide with a gun, and nine times more likely to die from a firearm accident than children in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control)

• [/FONT]

So more then 80 Americans die each day.... so it's even worse then previously generalized.

That's worse then living in Iraq.... no wonder why you guys don't think it's that bad over there.... gezuz.

 

[lone wolf]

About 120 Americans a day die in traffic accidents and they don't even make the news. I suppose if there was a lobby trying to get a car ban....

 

[Colpy]

And shrugging your shoulders and just accepting it as a way of life sure is a great solution.... but hey, so long as you don't see a problem, who am I to argue? :-?



Base this:

Statistics: Gun Violence in Our Communities
http://www.neahin.org/programs/schoolsafety/gunsafety/statistics.htm

[/size][/font]
[/list]So more then 80 Americans die each day.... so it's even worse then previously generalized.

That's worse then living in Iraq.... no wonder why you guys don't think it's that bad over there.... gezuz.

So, why is that when there are lots of countries with firearms laws as loose as those in the USA?

And where does Canada place on the list?

The point is you can't make life safe......and to try and do so by restricting peoples' freedom to a ridiculous degree is very dangerous....

BTW, any idea how many of those 80 per day are suicides? I bet almost half. Any idea how many are justifiable shootings? Probably not that many, as in most defensive situations no shots are fired....

And the 120 killed a day in vehicles?

 

[EagleSmack]

About 120 Americans a day die in traffic accidents and they don't even make the news. I suppose if there was a lobby trying to get a car ban....

THAT is a HUGE point. On our nations highways and byways it is an absolute slaughter with car accidents. But it is not so glamorous because everyone has to drive. It is just that anti-gun lobby that gets into peoples minds.

Strangulation, stabbings, beatings are all fine and good...but when a gun is used...

BAN GUNS!

Four people died and three are missing in separate incidents over the past week off New York beaches...maybe we should ban Ocean Swimming.